Let's talk about homosexuality (again!)

[Uncle J]

Why are you okay with them calling it a sin? Just because it's their belief?

Pretty much. All sorts of people think all sorts of things are sins...eating pork, eating shellfish, working on Sunday, working on Saturday, drinking caffeine...and the rest of us generally don't care. Believe whatever you like and live accordingly if you so choose. Just don't try and force others to submit to your beliefs about what the gods want.

 

[Tenchi]

The problem with calling sharply critical comments about another's thinking, desires and behavior "hate speech" is that it immediately makes basic Christian doctrine "hateful." The Gospel declares people sinful, their conduct so vile that God will cast those unrepentant of their sin into eternal torment.

John 3:36
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

Romans 2:5-11
5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who will render to each person according to his deeds:
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,
10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
11 For there is no partiality with God.

Revelation 20:11-15
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

God in His word states repeatedly that various kinds of behaviors - including homosexuality - are evil (abominations, even) and as such God hates them and will consign the "worker of iniquity" to everlasting punishment.

Proverbs 6:16-19
16 There are six things which the LORD hates, Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him:
17 Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood,
18 A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that run rapidly to evil,
19 A false witness who utters lies, And one who spreads strife among brothers.

Psalm 5:4-6
4 For You are not a God who takes pleasure in wickedness; No evil dwells with You.
5 The boastful shall not stand before Your eyes; You hate all who do iniquity.
6 You destroy those who speak falsehood; The LORD abhors the man of bloodshed and deceit.

Leviticus 18:22
22 'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Colossians 3:5-6
5 Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry.
6 For it is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience,

And so on.

Christ himself was extremely harsh in his criticisms of the Pharisees, calling them "white-washed tombs full of dead men's bones," "sons of hell," the "brood of vipers," "hypocrites" and such like (Matthew 23). Under the current force of toxic Woke "compassion," however, such truth must cease. No one must be made to feel badly about their evil, soul-destroying sin. The sort of "hateful" stuff found in the Bible must be eradicated, the sinner comforted in their sin, instead, made easy within themselves about their cherished evil though it will bring them to eternal ruin. This sort of "compassion" is not compassion at all, but the Broad Way that leads to eternal destruction. The very thinking that would protect the sinner from the "hate speech" that calls their sin what it is, is itself what is truly hateful, coddling the sinner in what will destroy them.

Isaiah 55:7
7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

The wicked and unrighteous cannot return unto the Lord in their wickedness and unrighteousness; they must forsake these things; but they will only do so having first recognized their wickedness and unrighteousness for what they are. Modern ideas of "hate speech" would keep the wicked and unrighteous forever unable to truly return to the Lord.

 

[WIP]

If I may interject, I think there's a difference between calling a spade a spade and making general accusations that may or may not be true or accurate.

For example, defining what is sin according to Godly proclamation is one thing but making statements like what follows from a previous post is something entirely different.

Homosexuals are polyamerous, changing partners frequently for the satisfaction of sinful flesh, it's all about themselves, their own desires, their own needs, there's no love, only lust.

While the above sentiment may be true for some homosexuals, it does not necessarily make it true for all homosexuals. I don't know what the statistics are but there are some who have been involved in same sex monogamous relationships for decades. For this reason, the above sentiment could in fact be a false accusation, which violates one of the Ten Commandments instituted by God.

Please understand that I am not defending homosexuality in any way, shape, or form for I truly believe what Scripture says that is is a sin abhorred by God. Be that as it may, we Christians are not in a position to spread false information either.

Those of us who are heterosexual certainly don't have anything to boast about either. There are many Christians that are guilty of premarital sexual relations, sexual promiscuity, sexual immorality, adultery, and more so in the same context would it be appropriate to say that heterosexuals are polyamorous changing partners frequently for the satisfaction of sinful flesh, it's all about themselves, their own desires, their own needs, there's no love, only lust?

This is a clear example of removing the plank from our own eyes before attempting to remove the speck in others' eyes. (Matthew 7:3-5)

Just my .

 

[Uncle J]

The problem with calling sharply critical comments about another's thinking, desires and behavior "hate speech" is that it immediately makes basic Christian doctrine "hateful." The Gospel declares people sinful, their conduct so vile that God will cast those unrepentant of their sin into eternal torment.

I don't see that as hate speech. Rather, it's just one of many religious beliefs that humans hold to.

Christ himself was extremely harsh in his criticisms of the Pharisees, calling them "white-washed tombs full of dead men's bones," "sons of hell," the "brood of vipers," "hypocrites" and such like (Matthew 23). Under the current force of toxic Woke "compassion," however, such truth must cease. No one must be made to feel badly about their evil, soul-destroying sin.

This seems like you saying you want to be able to call people names, insult them, and make them feel bad. Is that about right?

The sort of "hateful" stuff found in the Bible must be eradicated, the sinner comforted in their sin, instead, made easy within themselves about their cherished evil though it will bring them to eternal ruin. This sort of "compassion" is not compassion at all, but the Broad Way that leads to eternal destruction. The very thinking that would protect the sinner from the "hate speech" that calls their sin what it is, is itself what is truly hateful, coddling the sinner in what will destroy them.

Well here's the thing....you can go around calling LGBTQs names, insult them, and make them feel bad; it's generally legal.

However, that sort of behavior tends to generate quite a bit of blowback from society and tends to drive people away from your faith, rather than towards it. So if you insist on doing all those things, be prepared for the consequences.

 

[Tenchi]

While the above sentiment may be true for some homosexuals, it does not necessarily make it true for all homosexuals. I don't know what the statistics are but there are some who have been involved in same sex monogamous relationships for decades. For this reason, the above sentiment could in fact be a false accusation, which violates one of the Ten Commandments instituted by God.

The statement in question about homosexuals doesn't stipulate that all homosexuals carry on in the way described. As I understand it, the remark is of a general sort, not offering an across-the-board assertion about every homosexual. Others have construed the statement as being about all homosexuals, however. This difference in perspective on the statement highlights the problem with curtailing speech: Who decides what is "hateful" and what is not? On what grounds? What is hateful to one might be the unvarnished truth to another; what is hateful to one might be a matter of opinion to another; what is hateful to one might be loving to another. It is far better, I think, to let speech be truly free than to start snipping off certain kinds of speech we don't like. Such snipping is a fast route to tyranny and tyrants know it well. So long as free speech exists, all other freedoms may be defended and/or regained. Without free speech, however, oppression and tyranny cannot be withstood. If you want to discern the nascent tyrant, then, simply look for those most loudly and eagerly calling for "limits" on speech.

 

[Uncle J]

The statement in question about homosexuals doesn't stipulate that all homosexuals carry on in the way described. As I understand it, the remark is of a general sort, not offering an across-the-board assertion about every homosexual. Others have construed the statement as being about all homosexuals, however. This difference in perspective on the statement highlights the problem with curtailing speech: Who decides what is "hateful" and what is not? On what grounds? What is hateful to one might be the unvarnished truth to another; what is hateful to one might be a matter of opinion to another; what is hateful to one might be loving to another. It is far better, I think, to let speech be truly free than to start snipping off certain kinds of speech we don't like. Such snipping is a fast route to tyranny and tyrants know it well. So long as free speech exists, all other freedoms may be defended and/or regained. Without free speech, however, oppression and tyranny cannot be withstood. If you want to discern the nascent tyrant, then, simply look for those most loudly and eagerly calling for "limits" on speech.

If I may.....

I don't know where you live, but in the US not only can you go around calling people names, insulting them, and telling them how they're doomed to hell, but some Christians actually do that very regularly.

Just about every sporting event, concert, festival, etc. I've been to has had Christians with big signs and bullhorns yelling at people, calling them names, insulting them, scaring little kids, and shouting about how everyone is going to hell. These types....

Yet no government official ever intervenes to stop them, because it's all within their free speech rights.

But as I noted in my post to you earlier, I'm fairly confident that sort of "street preaching" drives far more people away from Christianity than it gains converts.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I dunno
My local street preacher was pretty mellow. He’d talk on his megaphone about Jesus and the sins of modern society. I kinda miss him lol I think he’s not allowed in that area now maybe? Modern day Bible Belt….


The focus on same sex behavior is creepy level intense in some conservative churches ️ I’ve dealt with. I dunno speak the truth in love and help others probably on a one on one basis…

But no local churches ️ seem to do that?!? And there really truly often is this…cruelty…behind all the smiles in many congregations. I’m thinking of charismatics in particular just from personal experience…

 

[Tenchi]

The focus on same sex behavior is creepy level intense in some conservative churches ️ I’ve dealt with.

I think it becomes an obsession with some church leaders, yes. But not in a total vacuum of reason for the obsession. Are there Gossip Pride parades? Or Adultery Pride parades? Or Lying Pride parades? Do thieves, or child abusers have their own flags flown at schools and city halls, once a year, for a month? Are human traffickers, or serial killers, promoted constantly on popular media as normal and deserving of societal celebration? Nope. But homosexuals have their own parades, flags, annual, month-long public acknowledgments, and widespread cultural promotion through popular media.

Homosexual behavior is also a glaring perversion of nature, men acting with men against the obvious design of their sexual organs for heterosexual sex, in time often producing irreversible damage to their bodies as they persist in misusing their parts in aberrant ways sexually.

And so, there is distinct reason for Christian leaders to give sometimes excessive attention to this particular sin. It is thrust in the faces of us all on a regular basis, promoted as the very opposite of what God says it is.

I dunno speak the truth in love and help others probably on a one on one basis…

It's always puzzled me that when Christians respond en masse and aggressively to the en masse and aggressive promotion of homosexuality, only the Christian is acting inappropriately. To this I say: Baloney. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Christians have every right to oppose a behavior they believe is not only immoral and obscene but deleterious to society - just as homosexuals have the right to oppose Christians. The idea that the homosexual should be able to trumpet his sin while Christians stifle their strong objection to it, however, is a lot of rot.

But no local churches ️ seem to do that?!? And there really truly often is this…cruelty…behind all the smiles in many congregations.

Perhaps, but not in any treatment of a homosexual by Christians that I've observed. Homosexuals are made in the imago dei and deserving of the same basic respect and value as any other human being and are treated accordingly by myself and fellow believers that I know.

I have, though, noticed that some homosexuals like to flaunt their sin in such a way in proximity to Christians as to inflame objection from them. And when these provocative homosexuals succeed, they then decry the very response they intended to produce. Right out of the Marxist playbook, this tactic.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I should have phrased my reply better. Ministering one to another is a biblical practice. I think it should be encouraged.


The lgbtqi movement is often anti Christian which at first makes it very curious to see some lgbtqi attempting to remake Christianity . But then again…
Idolatry is part of human nature and if they have a political or ideological agenda then all the more reason to remake all of society…

 

[Tenchi]

I should have phrased my reply better. Ministering one to another is a biblical practice. I think it should be encouraged.

Agreed.

The lgbtqi movement is often anti Christian which at first makes it very curious to see some lgbtqi attempting to remake Christianity . But then again…

What I find odd is how much in alliance the LGBTQ folk are with the Muslim cause. Not one LGBTQ person would be welcomed in a Muslim country operating under Sharia law. In many such countries, the homosexual, or lesbian, or cross-dresser would be incarcerated, beaten and/or killed. Very odd, then, that the LGBTQ community seems so encouraging of Islamic terrorism, at the moment.

In any case, what better way to make impotent an opponent than to poison him? Forget coming to blows, just insinuate something powerfully toxic into the opponent's system and watch him collapse. This seems to be the strategy of the LGBTQ folk who want to remake Christianity in the LGBTQ image, poisoning the faith from within.

What the LGBTQ community and other easily "activated" special interest groups don't realize is that their alignment with Marxist activism (Black Lives Matter, anti-colonialism, DEI, etc.) will only endure until society is sufficiently divided to be conquered. When it is, every activist group will be destroyed by the Marxist conqueror, as they were in every communist regime that has dominated a nation since Karl Marx wrote his foul treatises.

 

[Uncle J]

So now queer people are communists, Marxists, and enablers of Islamic terrorism, while also deliberately working to bring down western society and Christianity.

Nah....no hate speech there.

It makes me wonder about the Christians expressing such hate....what specifically is y'all's desired outcome? Do you want it to be illegal to be LGBTQ? Do you want queer people imprisoned? Do you want to roll back their basic civil rights, like freedom of expression and equal protection under the law?

EDIT: Also, regarding the argument that since LGBTQs have pride events, Christians are therefore justified in confronting them.....that would have a lot more credibility if Christians were also protesting and confronting people at Wall St., rejecting Donald Trump, and casting out televangelists and prosperity preachers for their extreme greed and love of money.

Believe me, the rest of us see that sort of hypocrisy very clearly.

 

[Riven]

I think it becomes an obsession with some church leaders, yes. But not in a total vacuum of reason for the obsession. Are there Gossip Pride parades? Or Adultery Pride parades? Or Lying Pride parades? Do thieves, or child abusers have their own flags flown at schools and city halls, once a year, for a month? Are human traffickers, or serial killers, promoted constantly on popular media as normal and deserving of societal celebration? Nope. But homosexuals have their own parades, flags, annual, month-long public acknowledgments, and widespread cultural promotion through popular media.

Is it really fair to equate gay people with child abusers and thieves? If we're going to talk about child abuse, let's start with the Catholic church.

And so, there is distinct reason for Christian leaders to give sometimes excessive attention to this particular sin. It is thrust in the faces of us all on a regular basis, promoted as the very opposite of what God says it is.

That's just an excuse to go after these people. Most people, including Christians, aren't gay and aren't interested in the same sex.

It's always puzzled me that when Christians respond en masse and aggressively to the en masse and aggressive promotion of homosexuality, only the Christian is acting inappropriately. To this I say: Baloney. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Christians have every right to oppose a behavior they believe is not only immoral and obscene but deleterious to society - just as homosexuals have the right to oppose Christians. The idea that the homosexual should be able to trumpet his sin while Christians stifle their strong objection to it, however, is a lot of rot.

It's one thing to say it's a sin and you don't like it. Fair enough. But it's another to actively hate people for it. I think that's the objection.

I have, though, noticed that some homosexuals like to flaunt their sin in such a way in proximity to Christians as to inflame objection from them. And when these provocative homosexuals succeed, they then decry the very response they intended to produce. Right out of the Marxist playbook, this tactic.

Where? I don't see gay people purposely antagonizing Christians. Maybe on the internet, but I never see it out in the real world. People generally are more interested in their own buisness.

 

[Tenchi]

Is it really fair to equate gay people with child abusers and thieves?

??? Is homosexuality not a sin? God says it is. And an abominable, what's more.

I know the secular culture has come to accept homosexuality as something other than the gross sin that God says it is, but I'm a Christian and so am obliged to take His view of the behavior.

If we're going to talk about child abuse, let's start with the Catholic church.

Well, that homosexuality is sin doesn't mean church gossips aren't guilty of sin when they gossip, too. But a tu quoque response doesn't somehow relieve homosexuality of its grossly immoral character, as far as God is concerned.

I was responding, remember, to the matter of homosexuality, not the abuse of children by Roman Catholic priests. If I had been discussing such abuse you can be sure I'd call it the evil it is, too. But, I wasn't; I was addressing the matter of homosexuality.

What about lesbians?

What about them? Their perversion of God's design for human sexuality is also sin.

That's just an excuse to go after these people. Most people, including Christians, aren't gay and aren't interested in the same sex.

Not it's not. And what do you mean "go after"? All sin is condemned by God and so is confronted and condemned by godly Christian leaders in their teaching - even sin championed extravagantly by the secular culture.

If you think secular godless culture doesn't press hard upon the Church, you're very mistaken. Especially younger Christians are beset by this pressure, some of them telling me how, at school, they are mocked for not taking up a homosexual, or lesbian, or transgendered identity and are warned it will only be a matter of time before they succumb to the weight of the culture bearing down on them in this area. They've told me, teenaged Christians have, how they've gone to school on a morning only to find the main hallway papered, top-to-bottom, with LGBTQ propaganda, LGBTQ students carrying on with each other, inviting fellow straight students to do the same.

Under such cultural pressure, Christian pastors can't help but speak against this sin. Their younger congregants are only hearing Christian teaching at church on Sunday morning for half an hour while all throughout the rest of the week a godless, sin-obsessed culture is inviting them to partake in wickedness. No pastor worth his salt would leave the matter of homosexuality unaddressed but would regularly turn to the subject in fortification of those near-constantly urged to accept it as entirely normal and morally-acceptable.

It's one thing to say it's a sin and you don't like it. Fair enough. But it's another to actively hate people for it. I think that's the objection.

Yes, I agree. God gives no ground for His children to hate others. But, these days, "hate" is simply calling sin what it is, which was my point. And the more a sin is regarded as not-sin, the more "hateful" those who say it is are thought to be. In time, the person refusing to give up God's definition of sin is held to be cruelly "intolerant," and "unreasoning," and "hateful," and are thus worthy of the scorn and hate of those on the "right" side of the issue. Unless North American culture has a sharp correction back toward Judeo-Christian ethics, values, and morality, the darkness and sin into which the culture is descending won't long endure those who call out the evil the culture has come to embrace and celebrate. Mark my words, when that time comes, many Christians here in North America will suffer the deadly persecution of past and present Christians in other nations.

Where?

As I indicated, in my own personal experience.

I don't see gay people purposely antagonizing Christians. Maybe on the internet, but I never see it out in the real world.

Oh? You know nothing of homosexuals taking Christian bakers, or wedding photographers, or caterers, or Christian educational institutions to court? Really?

People generally are more interested in their own buisness.

Which is why homosexuals have their own flag, and parades, and annual, public month-long acknowledgements of their sin. Riiiight.

 

[Uncle J]

Clearly this all boils down to one basic turn of events.....on LGBTQs, Christians have lost the culture wars and it's driving them crazy, so they reflexively fall back on two of their most common coping mechanisms....hate speech and martyrdom.

One really could summarize a lot of what's been posted here with "Them gays been gettin' all uppity, existing out in public, having pride events, and expecting us to let them live free of harassment!"

Funny too....years ago I read a paper about the psychological traits of fundamentalists (not just fundie Christians, but also Muslims and Jews) and one of the main traits they tend to share is an unhealthy obsession with sex, and not just sex in general, but especially other peoples' sex lives.

So....yeah.

 

[Uncle J]

The basic message from queer folks to Christians....

 

[Riven]

??? Is homosexuality not a sin? God says it is. And an abominable, what's more.

God didn't write the bible. These were the opinions of men that lived in the first century.

I know the secular culture has come to accept homosexuality as something other than the gross sin that God says it is, but I'm a Christian and so am obliged to take His view of the behavior.

Fair enough.

Well, that homosexuality is sin doesn't mean church gossips aren't guilty of sin when they gossip, too. But a tu quoque response doesn't somehow relieve homosexuality of its grossly immoral character, as far as God is concerned.

I was responding, remember, to the matter of homosexuality, not the abuse of children by Roman Catholic priests. If I had been discussing such abuse you can be sure I'd call it the evil it is, too. But, I wasn't; I was addressing the matter of homosexuality.

It's quite telling that Christians today are more concerned about what two consenting adults of the same sex do in the privacy of their own home, as opposed to the very real abuses that have been, and still are, inflicted on children addy the hands of the Catholic church.

What about them? Their perversion of God's design for human sexuality is also sin.

But it is one that the Christians have come to accept if their internet search history is anything to go by. :p

Not it's not. And what do you mean "go after"? All sin is condemned by God and so is confronted and condemned by godly Christian leaders in their teaching - even sin championed extravagantly by the secular culture.

The hammering away at homosexuality in American churches today is completely lopsided. What other sin is discussed as much? It's not even close.

If you think secular godless culture doesn't press hard upon the Church, you're very mistaken. Especially younger Christians are beset by this pressure, some of them telling me how, at school, they are mocked for not taking up a homosexual, or lesbian, or transgendered identity and are warned it will only be a matter of time before they succumb to the weight of the culture bearing down on them in this area. They've told me, teenaged Christians have, how they've gone to school on a morning only to find the main hallway papered, top-to-bottom, with LGBTQ propaganda, LGBTQ students carrying on with each other, inviting fellow straight students to do the same.

So what? How is that any different than other kinds of peer pressure?

Under such cultural pressure, Christian pastors can't help but speak against this sin. Their younger congregants are only hearing Christian teaching at church on Sunday morning for half an hour while all throughout the rest of the week a godless, sin-obsessed culture is inviting them to partake in wickedness. No pastor worth his salt would leave the matter of homosexuality unaddressed but would regularly turn to the subject in fortification of those near-constantly urged to accept it as entirely normal and morally-acceptable.

Except that it's common for the pastors that preach about homosexuality the most to be having gay relations themselves when the church's back is turned.

Mark my words, when that time comes, many Christians here in North America will suffer the deadly persecution of past and present Christians in other nations.

I think it's more likely that we will see an increase in violence coming from Christians as the culture continues to go in the opposite direction. There's talk everyday of Christian nationalism in America. Which is basically the desire to bring the country under a Christian theocratic form of governance.

Oh? You know nothing of homosexuals taking Christian bakers, or wedding photographers, or caterers, or Christian educational institutions to court? Really?

Yes, but those cases are not common. As I recall, the bakery that was taken to court won the case. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Which is why homosexuals have their own flag, and parades, and annual, public month-long acknowledgements of their sin. Riiiight.

Which is only one month out of the year. In fact, you're more likely to hear about homosexuality in church than outside of it. Which I think is kind of funny.

 

[Christ_empowered]

Christians are dealing with sex abuse in their midst. A big problem seems to be the leadership of churches ️ at all levels creating a toxic culture that allows such abuse to continue and then too often…


Abusers just went to another church ️. The SBC is dealing with this in my area and they also are apparently on the hunt for female headed churches. I couldn’t believe it…
They cut off churches who violated their new rules in handing sex abuse cases…

And also cut off female headed churches. Priorities…

 

[Barabbas]

I'd love to answer any questions you have about the topic! I'm here to be 100% honest as I feel this is how we can help the community understand the issue better, whether you are a Christian with same-sex attractions or on the flip side a firm straight Christian who has questions.

A sin is a sin. Some sins are abominations. Being that all sins are the same, and you will fall short of the glory.
No matter what sin you are doing. There is forgiveness. The trick is to stop the sin.
Indulging in a sin, is not an option. One of the many trials that you will face during this life time.

Just like me and every other sinner, I have to fight my darnest against my sins. Most of the time I win, some times I was victim to my own humanness.

When you get these urges, you must resist. Its what God wants.

 

[Tenchi]

God didn't write the bible. These were the opinions of men that lived in the first century.

I believe He inspired and superintended the writing of the Bible. The Bible has the mark of the divine upon it sufficiently to persuade me it is actually God's word. I deduce this from the following:

1.) Thematic unity.
2.) Fulfilled prophecy.
3.) Historicity.
4) Survivability.
5.) Effect upon individuals and nations.
6.) Explanatory power.

Cumulatively, these things convince me that the Bible is no mere book, just the invention of men, but the divinely-inspired word of God in which God has revealed Himself to humanity.

It's quite telling that Christians today are more concerned about what two consenting adults of the same sex do in the privacy of their own home, as opposed to the very real abuses that have been, and still are, inflicted on children addy the hands of the Catholic church.

Again, no one is making out like Roman Catholic priests who abuse children aren't the foul creatures that they are. And "consenting (homosexual) adults" aren't keeping what they do "in the privacy of their own home" at all. Instead, they parade down city streets, engaging often in lewd acts, dressed in obscene garb, demanding public recognition of their perversion and celebration of it. How is this "what they do in the privacy of their own home"? Generally, Christians are no more concerned about the sin of homosexuality than its regular and overt promotion in the culture gives them cause to be.

But it is one that the Christians have come to accept if their internet search history is anything to go by. :tongue

Oh? How do you know this? How many Christians do you know sufficiently well to have obtained access to their internet search history? This remark sounds like the sort of overgeneralization the racist makes about various ethnic groups...

The hammering away at homosexuality in American churches today is completely lopsided. What other sin is discussed as much? It's not even close.

How would you know this, exactly? How many churches have you been in long enough to judge accurately how frequently teaching on homosexuality occurs? The Baptist church I've attended for the last decade hasn't had a single sermon on homosexuality, or even a mention of it from the pulpit, for that matter.

But if there is a preoccupation in some churches with this particular sin, as I've pointed out, it is, at least in part, because this sin is promoted in North American culture like no other. Again, only homosexuality has parades, and flags, and annual, month-long acknowledgements/celebrations in its honor. If, then, homosexuals object to the negative interest Christians show in their sin, homosexuals ought actually to keep their sin "in the privacy of their own homes."

So what? How is that any different than other kinds of peer pressure?

??? You're kidding me, right? I attended a high school of some 2500 students. It was a wild place, at times: violent, drug-ridden, lots of alcoholism, gang stuff and suicide. But never, at any time, was any sin promoted in the school in the way LGBTQ stuff is today, entire hallways plastered with propaganda celebrating fornication, or drug abuse, or gang violence; never did my fellows students ever mock me for not being a druggie, or abstaining from alcohol; never did they tell me it was only a matter of time before I took up their sin for myself.

Except that it's common for the pastors that preach about homosexuality the most to be having gay relations themselves when the church's back is turned.

How do you know this, exactly?

I think it's more likely that we will see an increase in violence coming from Christians as the culture continues to go in the opposite direction. There's talk everyday of Christian nationalism in America. Which is basically the desire to bring the country under a Christian theocratic form of governance.

No, whether the pendulum swing of cultural ideology migrates into communism or fascism, the same end-goal will prevail: The establishment of a tyrannical Mother-State. In every nation where such a state has formed, Christians have been severely persecuted. And in any case, no biblical Christian would ever support a theocratic form of governance. That's the project of Islam, not Christianity.

As awful as a tyrannical theocracy would be, it grows increasingly preferable to the present grotesque and depraved culture taking shape in North America where homosexuals parade their sin boldly in the street, perverts in demonic costumes groom children in public libraries, youths are carved up surgically on the altar of virtue signaling and profit, castrated and disfigured permanently, and near a million children in the womb are murdered each year (just to name a few of the awful things characterizing modern, western, secular culture).

Yes, but those cases are not common. As I recall, the bakery that was taken to court won the case. Correct me if I'm wrong.

But you've been going on about homosexuals being consenting adults wanting to be left alone to do as they wish in the privacy of their own homes. This is, as the examples I've given demonstrate, not the case. The bakers had to win their case in court only because those "consenting adults" you're talking about took them to court.

Which is only one month out of the year. In fact, you're more likely to hear about homosexuality in church than outside of it. Which I think is kind of funny.

??? "Only one month out of the year"? What's this supposed to mean? What other sin gets a month's promotion every year? Why should any sin get such promotion? It's sin!

And the idea that one is more likely to hear about homosexuality inside the church than outside of it is sheer nonsense In the hyper-liberal, "progressive" churches that have embraced the LGBTQ cause this might be the case, but in Bible-believing, God-honoring churches you'll encounter no Gay Pride parades, or see rainbow flags, or be issued pro-LGBTQ bumper stickers, or have perverts in demon outfits reading books to children, or be shown movies about homosexual relationships, or hear songs about sodomy. No, in my fifty years of experience within the Church, these sorts of things are going on outside the Church, not within it.

 

[Tenchi]

Christians are dealing with sex abuse in their midst. A big problem seems to be the leadership of churches ️ at all levels creating a toxic culture that allows such abuse to continue and then too often…

Actually, the problem is deeper than this. Churches have ceased to look for spiritual leaders in whom the Person of Christ is clearly evident. Instead, they look for credentials and "charisma." Until this changes and pulpits are occupied once again by men who truly know and love God, creeps and perverts getting into leadership will continue to plague the Church.

Abusers just went to another church ️. The SBC is dealing with this in my area and they also are apparently on the hunt for female headed churches. I couldn’t believe it…
They cut off churches who violated their new rules in handing sex abuse cases…

And also cut off female headed churches. Priorities…

And the reasons for these new standards? Are you taking a biblical view of things concerning the SBC, or a secular one?