Limited atonement and 2 Cor 2:15,16,17

[Benoni]

There is no Corinthians 2:17 only 16; you must have the wrong verse. Nothing is mentioned of ‘perish†in this passage?

Corinthians 2:15But 1 Corinthians 2: 15But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 16For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

Yes I am a Christian Universalist.

Benoni wrote:

Christ died for all people, Overcomers, great multitude and the unjust. All will be ultimately saved. The overcomers will become Kings and priest for the remainder of all mankind. Not all believers are overcomers as noted distictions between the great multitudes BEFORE the throne (Rev. 7:9) in comparison to the overcomer who Christ will grant to sit with me on my throne (Rev. 3:21).

Hello Benoni,

Many respondants so far have affirmed that 'Christ died for all' and have provided a brief explaination in support of their position. You seem to assume that when people say 'Christ died for all' they also mean 'all will ultimately be saved'. Would you agree that it is better to affirm that this before assuming they also believe 'all will ultimately be saved?' Are you an advocate of UR?

How do you reconcile 'All will be utlimately saved' with those who are 'perishing from death to death' in 2 Cor 2:15-17? The distinction here is between those being saved and those perishing. Talk to me about 2 Cor 2:15-17 and the question in the OP.

blessings

 

[Benoni]

A saint is one who overcomes sin, the devil and the world through faith. In the next age the saints will rule over the righteous.

No I think it is a lot more then that... In His great victory over the power of Satan He was a sign that pointed unerringly to another company of overcoming sons. In all the churches of Revelation there were two classes of people  those who were overcomers and those who were not.

It is to the overcomers that the glorious promises are given, for they follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth, have partaken of His mind and of His will, and thus are equipped to reign in His kingdom.

Thus to them it is said: "To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev. 2:7.

"He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Rev. 2:11.

"To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it." Rev. 2:17.

"He that overcometh and keepeth My works to the end, to him will I give/wnw over the nations, and he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessel of the potter shall they be broken to shivers even as I received of My Father, and I will give him the morning star." Rev. 2:26-28.

"He that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God and he shall go no more out and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God which cometh down out of heaven from my God and I will write upon him my new name." Rev. 3:12, 13.

"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with Me in My throne even as I overcame and am set down with My Father in His throne." Rev. 3:21.

"He that hath an ear let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

Notice the word ear not ears plural. God does not call systems.

(en) Greek) In, with, by Christ George

 

[stranger]

Benoni wrote:

There is no Corinthians 2:17 only 16; you must have the wrong verse. Nothing is mentioned of ‘perish†in this passage?

The passage is 2 Corinthians 2:15-17.

Yes I am a Christian Universalist.

ok, there may be some restrictions on UR topics/ discussions on this forum - the 1 to 1 debate forum allows UR debates for those interested.

take care

 

[Benoni]

Sound's like fun. Sorry I missed that 2nd Corin.?

Benoni wrote:

There is no Corinthians 2:17 only 16; you must have the wrong verse. Nothing is mentioned of ‘perish†in this passage?

The passage is 2 Corinthians 2:15-17.

[quote:2dl103sj]Yes I am a Christian Universalist.

ok, there may be some restrictions on UR topics/ discussions on this forum - the 1 to 1 debate forum allows UR debates for those interested.

take care[/quote:2dl103sj]

 

[Benoni]

2 Corinthians 2:15-17 (King James Version)
15For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:
16To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?
17For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.
I like the word “mar or lose†also figuratively

Perish:

NT:622

apollumi (ap-ol'-loo-mee); from NT:575 and the base of NT:3639; to destroy fully (reflexively, to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively:

We are all dead spiritually until God draws us, quicken us.

Benoni wrote:

There is no Corinthians 2:17 only 16; you must have the wrong verse. Nothing is mentioned of ‘perish†in this passage?

The passage is 2 Corinthians 2:15-17.

[quote:2e3qcibq]Yes I am a Christian Universalist.

ok, there may be some restrictions on UR topics/ discussions on this forum - the 1 to 1 debate forum allows UR debates for those interested.

take care[/quote:2e3qcibq]

 

[Benoni]

ok, there may be some restrictions on UR topics/ discussions on this forum - the 1 to 1 debate forum allows UR debates for those interested.

I am willing.

 

[stranger]

ok, there may be some restrictions on UR topics/ discussions on this forum - the 1 to 1 debate forum allows UR debates for those interested.

I am willing.

Benoni,

There is one UR debate on the 1 to 1 forum already; I appreciate the importance of the topic for you though.

What is of more interest to me is the hermenuetic method by which you arrive at such a position, how you got to where you are and what assumptions were taken on board along the way.

blessings

 

[Benoni]

There are assumptiomd on both sides of this debate; most people who debate this subject soon learn the majority of assumptions occur on the side of eternal torment.

ok, there may be some restrictions on UR topics/ discussions on this forum - the 1 to 1 debate forum allows UR debates for those interested.

I am willing.

Benoni,

There is one UR debate on the 1 to 1 forum already; I appreciate the importance of the topic for you though.

What is of more interest to me is the hermenuetic method by which you arrive at such a position, how you got to where you are and what assumptions were taken on board along the way.

blessings

 

[Bubba]

A saint is one who overcomes sin, the devil and the world through faith. In the next age the saints will rule over the righteous.

No I think it is a lot more then that... In His great victory over the power of Satan He was a sign that pointed unerringly to another company of overcoming sons. In all the churches of Revelation there were two classes of people  those who were overcomers and those who were not.

It is to the overcomers that the glorious promises are given, for they follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth, have partaken of His mind and of His will, and thus are equipped to reign in His kingdom.

Thus to them it is said: "To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev. 2:7.

"He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Rev. 2:11.

"To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it." Rev. 2:17.

"He that overcometh and keepeth My works to the end, to him will I give/wnw over the nations, and he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessel of the potter shall they be broken to shivers even as I received of My Father, and I will give him the morning star." Rev. 2:26-28.

"He that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God and he shall go no more out and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God which cometh down out of heaven from my God and I will write upon him my new name." Rev. 3:12, 13.

"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with Me in My throne even as I overcame and am set down with My Father in His throne." Rev. 3:21.

"He that hath an ear let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

Notice the word ear not ears plural. God does not call systems.
3This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
(en) Greek) In, with, by Christ George

It seems to me if you believe in Jesus, you are that "overcomer" spoken of in all those passages. 1John 5:3-5; "This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, 4for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. 5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. "
Bubba

 

[follower of Christ]

There are assumptiomd on both sides of this debate; most people who debate this subject soon learn the majority of assumptions occur on the side of eternal torment.

Hilarious statement, benoni....completely hilarious.
The scriptures VERY clearly and undeniably show eternal punishment...
READERS SEE >>> Eternal Torment/punishment

.

 

[follower of Christ]

A saint is one who overcomes sin, the devil and the world through faith. In the next age the saints will rule over the righteous.

No I think it is a lot more then that... In His great victory over the power of Satan He was a sign that pointed unerringly to another company of overcoming sons. In all the churches of Revelation there were two classes of people  those who were overcomers and those who were not.

It is to the overcomers that the glorious promises are given, for they follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth, have partaken of His mind and of His will, and thus are equipped to reign in His kingdom.

Thus to them it is said: "To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev. 2:7.

"He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Rev. 2:11.

"To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it." Rev. 2:17.

HILARIOUS !
When WE use Revelation your cliam is that it isnt literal....NOW you use Revelation to argue your own agenda here ?

"He that overcometh and keepeth My works to the end, to him will I give/wnw over the nations, and he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessel of the potter shall they be broken to shivers even as I received of My Father, and I will give him the morning star." Rev. 2:26-28.

"He that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God and he shall go no more out and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God which cometh down out of heaven from my God and I will write upon him my new name." Rev. 3:12, 13.

"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with Me in My throne even as I overcame and am set down with My Father in His throne." Rev. 3:21.

"He that hath an ear let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

Notice the word ear not ears plural. God does not call systems.

(en) Greek) In, with, by Christ George

Sorry benoni, but NOTHING you present from Revelation can be taken seriously by the rest of us here because when WE show evidence from Revelation your constant claim it that it ISNT literal.
So sorry, nothing in your post is evidence of anything

 

[follower of Christ]

Yes I am a Christian Universalist.

which is a prohibited topic on this forum

 

[follower of Christ]

Christ died for all people, Overcomers, great multitude and the unjust. All well be ultimately saved.

Not according to scripture, they wont...
READERS SEE >>> Eternal Torment/punishment

Rev. 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Rev. 3: 21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches

Laughable.
When it suits your own whims then Revelation means what it says.
When it exposes your error then its not literal

 

[follower of Christ]

Yes, but do you believe that God's love will ultimately reconcile all creation at the end of all things? If so, that is truly love for the whole world.
Bubba
ps hopefulluy the moderators have mercy on me

WE've been told over and over that UR is not permitted here, B. You know it by now.
Secondly, UR cannot be true without destroying any meaning of Christs sacrifice.
If God is going to save everyone, then tell us benoni...WHAT DID CHRIST DIE FOR ?
UR cheapens the Lords death....it makes it meaningless because He died to save men from nothing since God is supposedly going to just grant everyone salvation anyway whether they repent or not.

 

[Caroline H]

Thread locked until the moderators of this forum can examine it.