Limited Atonement - TULIP

[JLB]

There it is: “We are declared righteous by obedience,” the false gospel.

The false gospel is we are declared righteous by disobeying the gospel.

Only those who believe and therefore obey the gospel are saved.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

• with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

This is how we obey the gospel command repent, by confessing Jesus Christ as Lord.

As Paul goes on to show…

But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Romans 10:16-17

again


in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:8


Peter says it this way -

For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17

again

Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, 1 Peter 1:22-23


Obeying the gospel has everything to do with our salvation and our justification.


Confessing Jesus as Lord is how we obey the Gospel.

• and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Only those who obey Him will receive eternal salvation.

And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9

 

[JLB]

Nowhere does Jesus, Paul, or James teach that.

Only those who obey the Gospel are justified.

Justified by God mean righteous; right with God.


Was Adam right with God when he disobeyed and ate of the tree?

Would Noah have been right with God if he didn’t build the ark?

Would Abraham been right with God if he disobeyed when called to go out to the promise land?

Here is the answer -

And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” Galatians 3:8

Paul is referring to Abraham being called to go out of his fathers house to the promise land that the Lord would show him… Genesis 12:1-4

By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. Hebrews 11:8

 

[JLB]

No. Now you’re pitting James against Jesus.

No sir.

James and Paul and Peter all taught the same doctrine as Jesus.

 

[electedbyHim]

No sir.

James and Paul and Peter all taught the same doctrine as Jesus.

So a works gospel?

We have to do something to be saved?

 

[JLB]

We have to do something to be saved?

Yes. You have to believe, which means obey the gospel command to repent.

The way you obey the gospel command repent is to confess Jesus as Lord.

The big huge work one has to do is open their mouth and confess Jesus as Lord, because they believe God raised Him from the dead.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9

 

[electedbyHim]

Yes. You have to believe, which means obey the gospel command to repent.

The way you obey the gospel command repent is to confess Jesus as Lord.

The big huge work one has to do is open their mouth and confess Jesus as Lord, because they believe God raised Him from the dead.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9

The Bible says God gives us the faith to believe (changes our corrupt will that is bent towards sin).

Man is dead in sin snd cannot choose salvation.

Salvation is all the work of God, man has no part in it.

 

[JLB]

The Bible says God gives us the faith to believe (changes our corrupt will that is bent towards sin).

Man is dead in sin snd cannot choose salvation.

Salvation is all the work of God, man has no part in it.

Man is dead in trespasses and sin.

Man must hear and believe the Gospel in order to be saved.

The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, for all who believe.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. Romans 1:16

Man must believe.

That’s the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

“Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Acts 16:30-31


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

The only thing that kept these from being saved was they didn’t believe.

 

[Whatever]

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

The only thing that kept these from being saved was they didn’t believe.

Actually it sounds like the only thing that kept them from being saved was the devil.
They couldn't believe what was taken away from them.

 

[JLB]

Actually it sounds like the only thing that kept them from being saved was the devil.
They couldn't believe what was taken away from them.

“Therefore hear the parable of the sower: When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside.
Matthew 13:18-19

 

[Bruce.Leiter]

That is your “label”.

The people are already saved and expected to be fruitful.

Jesus calls it being fruitful.

All the parabolic teachings hinge on this principle. Being fruitful.

As we plainly see this principle in Matthew 25 as Jesus interprets the three parables in Matthew 25:31-46

He also teaches this principle in the sower and the seed.

And He said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables?
Mark 4:13

“For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them. Matthew 25:14


His own servants refers to His people, His sheep.

I would not call Matthew 25:31-46 a parable or three parables. It is Jesus' figurative way of describing an actual, future event, the final judgment. You are right, however, JLB, that the idea in that description is fruitfulness, but notice that early in his description, he says to the "sheep,"

Mat 25:34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

He says those words before he gives the reason that they are fruitful. God's blessing of salvation comes after God has chosen them before creation and before their salvation bears fruit.

 

[Whatever]

“Therefore hear the parable of the sower: When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside.
Matthew 13:18-19

That really doesn't change anything. They heard but didn't comprehend what it meant and the devil snatches it away before they have time to think about it. They didn't have the time to reject it.

 

[Whatever]

Man must hear and believe the Gospel in order to be saved.

I just got this out of the Websters 1828 dictionary on believe:
To credit upon the authority or testimony of another; to be persuaded of the truth of something upon the declaration of another, or upon evidence furnished by reasons, arguments, and deductions of the mind, or by other circumstances, than personal knowledge. When we believe upon the authority of another, we always put confidence in his veracity.

Again, the people in Matthew 13:19 didn't understand what was being said. You can't believe something you don't understand. And they didn't have the time to make any "deductions of the mind" about it cause the devil snatched it away.

 

[JLB]

I would not call Matthew 25:31-46 a parable or three parables. It is Jesus' figurative way of describing an actual, future event,

I agree.

However Matthew 25:31-46 is the previous parable explained.

Jesus is still answering the question from His disciples from Matthew 24:3…

Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”
And Jesus answered and said to them:… Mathew 24:3-4


Jesus used parabolic language throughout His discourse.

Example:


“Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing. Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods. But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 24:45-51

 

[JLB]

I just got this out of the Websters 1828 dictionary on believe:
To credit upon the authority or testimony of another; to be persuaded of the truth of something upon the declaration of another, or upon evidence furnished by reasons, arguments, and deductions of the mind, or by other circumstances, than personal knowledge. When we believe upon the authority of another, we always put confidence in his veracity.

Again, the people in Matthew 13:19 didn't understand what was being said. You can't believe something you don't understand. And they didn't have the time to make any "deductions of the mind" about it cause the devil snatched it away.

Thread 'Believe'
https://christianforums.net/threads/believe.81553/


Believe: - pisteuō Strongs # G4100 - verb


The KJV translates Strong's G4100 in the following manner: believe(239x), commit unto (4x), commit to (one's) trust (1x), be committed unto (1x), be put in trust with (1x), be commit to one's trust (1x), believer (1x).


I. to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
A. of the thing believed
i. to credit, have confidence
B. in a moral or religious reference
i. used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
ii. to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith
iii. mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith
II. to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
A. to be intrusted with a thing


Believe carries the meaning of obey —


He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NKJV


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” John 3:36 NASB



It is noteworthy to understand that unbelief and disobedience are the same Greek word and are used interchangeably in the Bible based on translation.


Example: Unbelief - Disobedience



Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Hebrews 4:6 KJV


Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, Hebrews 4:6 NKJV


The word “believe” as it relates to Christ and His gospel, commandments and doctrine should be understood as follows.

Believe - Trust, commit to obey.