Limited atonement !

[brightfame52]

There was complete unity in the Godhead determining who Jesus Christ was to die a Surety for 1 Jn 5:6-8

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Jesus Christ died in behalf of those that the Father had, from eternity, decreed to save. There is absolute oneness of mind between the Father and the Son and the Spirit in saving God’s Elect. The Father chose and decrees their salvation, the Son dies in their place, and the Spirit sanctifies them setting them apart unto belief of the truth and conforms them to the image of Christ. This is the symmetrical witness of Scripture.10

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus Christs sacrificial atoning death wasn't for all individuals but for all His People Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

 

[brightfame52]

Christians believe in Limited Atonement. We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ, the Great Shepherd of the Sheep died for and redeemed God’s elect, all the elect, and only the elect. He shed his blood for those who are actually saved by his blood. Now in some sense we all believe in a limited atonement for instance:

The arminian believes that the atonement is limited in power and efficacy, that its power and efficacy is limited by the will, and choice, and decision of man, that man by his act of faith makes the blood of Christ effectual to himself.
Christians believe that our Lord’s atonement is limited not in merit, power, and efficacy (There is no limit to that!), but in its purpose, in its intention, in its design, in its scope. Christ died for God’s elect, made reconciliation/propitiation for God’s elect redeemed God’s elect, obtained eternal salvation for God’s elect, all God’s elect, and only God’s elect or sheep!

 

[journeyman]

I think believing the false doctrine of limited atonement causes people to forget that Christ died for them,

Christ died for the ungodly. Rom.5;6

 

[brightfame52]

I think believing the false doctrine of limited atonement causes people to forget that Christ died for them,

Christ died for the ungodly. Rom.5;6

You must not realize that Gods elect are ungodly by nature. He can die for the ungodly and it still be only limited to the Elect.

 

[journeyman]

You must not realize that Gods elect are ungodly by nature. He can die for the ungodly and it still be only limited to the Elect.

No my friend, because you're teaching that the blood of Jesus is incapable of saving many sinners.

 

[brightfame52]

No my friend, because you're teaching that the blood of Jesus is incapable of saving many sinners.

Thats a false accusation, I never said that. In fact the many He died for is a large number of people. The elect are many Heb 2:10

For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

The word many here polys:

of multitude, number, etc., many, numerous, great:

 

[journeyman]

Thats a false accusation, I never said that. In fact the many He died for is a large number of people. The elect are many Heb 2:10

For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

The word many here polys:

of multitude, number, etc., many, numerous, great:

And your point is Christs' sacrifice isnt't enough to save

the whole world 1Jn.2:2

 

[brightfame52]

All the scripture, every chapter, every verse, every statement, every type and picture of redemption and atonement given in Gods word, Old Testament and New, limits the death of Christ it to a specific people.

Eph 5:25-32

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 10

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Particular atonement is plain here:

Christ loved only His Church, He gave Himself only for His Church,

By His death for His Church He sanctifies His Church, He died with this specific People in sight.

 

[brightfame52]

And your point is Christs' sacrifice isnt't enough to save

the whole world 1Jn.2:2

More slander and false accusation ! Consider this a warning friend.

 

[journeyman]

More slander and false accusation ! Consider this a warning friend.

I cited how Jesus died for the world and you said nothing about the scripture I cited. The Bible doesn't support your quote below,

brightflame52
Christ loved only His Church

because Jesus taught,

Love your enemies Mt.5:44

So, you're wrong. And, Eph.5 doesn't preclude the love shown to all sinners.

 

[brightfame52]

Limited Atonement is truth because Christ died only for Gods elect, or Sheep Jn 10:11

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

And of course the Sheep doesnt mean the whole human race or everyone without exception. It does refer to them which are the elect according to the foreknowledge of God 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

The sprinkling of the Blood refers to His death, when He shed His Blood for them.11

 

[journeyman]

Plus if our Lords' sacrifice was only meant to save some, then he never loved others, which is contrary to the character of God.

 

[brightfame52]

Plus if our Lords' sacrifice was only meant to save some, then he never loved others, which is contrary to the character of God.

Yes God only Loved some of mankind, Rom 9:13

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Ps 5:5
5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Matt 7

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

That word knew denotes Loved, He never loved them !

 

[journeyman]

Yes God only Loved some of mankind, Rom 9:13

13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated

He's contrasting people who come to faith in Jesus with people who stay unbelievers. Read the beginning of the chapter.

Ps 5:5
5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Hating people who abused his Son is understandable, yet the Son lives the love and patience of his Father.

Matt 7

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

That word knew denotes Loved, He never loved them !

The word "knew" also means understood and number of other things, but the point is, the unrepentant are estranged from God.

 

[brightfame52]

He's contrasting people who come to faith in Jesus with people who stay unbelievers. Read the beginning of the chapter.

Hating people who abused his Son is understandable, yet the Son lives the love and patience of his Father.

The word "knew" also means understood and number of other things, but the point is, the unrepentant are estranged from God.

I showed you from scripture that there are people God doesnt Love !

 

[Randy]

So are you saying God sinned in putting to death his Son on the cross?

Acts 4:27-28 (KJV) For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

God didn't put Jesus on the cross. That evil intent came from man. God's will was to let it happen but even so the choice was Jesus's to make. Jesus submitted to the Fathers will. He layed down His life of His own accord. No one could force that on Him.

Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?

What we are stating is God brought good from that evil intent.

God was pleased through Jesus to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

John 17
Jesus prays for His disciples and for those who would come to believe in Him through the gospel message. He specifically stated He was not praying for the world,

Many excuses can be given but none will be accepted.
If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin.

Jesus replied: “A certain man was preparing a great banquet and invited many guests. 17At the time of the banquet he sent his servant to tell those who had been invited, ‘Come, for everything is now ready.’
18“But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said, ‘I have just bought a field, and I must go and see it. Please excuse me.’
19“Another said, ‘I have just bought five yoke of oxen, and I’m on my way to try them out. Please excuse me.’
20“Still another said, ‘I just got married, so I can’t come.’
21“The servant came back and reported this to his master. Then the owner of the house became angry and ordered his servant, ‘Go out quickly into the streets and alleys of the town and bring in the poor, the crippled, the blind and the lame.’
22“ ‘Sir,’ the servant said, ‘what you ordered has been done, but there is still room.’

23“Then the master told his servant, ‘Go out to the roads and country lanes and compel them to come in, so that my house will be full. 24I tell you, not one of those who were invited will get a taste of my banquet.’

 

[journeyman]

I showed you from scripture that there are people God doesnt Love !

I showed you from scripture we were two of those people,

because he is kind to ungrateful and evil people. Lk.6:35

 

[crossnote]

God didn't put Jesus on the cross.

Acts 4:27-28 KJV
[27] For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, [28] For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

 

[journeyman]

Acts 4:27-28 KJV
[27] For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together, [28] For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

He's quoting Psa.2. God determined before to show his kindness to mankind by Jesus and how vain it is to reject his love.