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Living without sin?

Hopeful

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I just caught a little flak for posting about life without sin.
It got me wondering...isn't that the point of giving up this world to follow Christ?
 

Edward

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I think there's a lot of confusion on this subject and I'm not 100% either ay yet, but boy there sure seems to be a lot of scriptures which could support this idea. Like, all things have become new...the old man is dead...We are in Christ and Christ in us, and even more but it's late.

I think the crux of it may be...that when we become born again and are saved, then we are not under the Law any more, which is to say, we don't look to the law to establish our righteousness any more, now we look to our Lord and savior, Jesus Christ. We follow Him, not the law.

Now this doesn't mean that we can sin, god forbid, we still need to obey. But if we're following the Lord and being led by the Spirit, then we will not sin. When we fall at times and do sin, then we repent and ask His forgiveness and contiue on in our walk.

So now...I am not a sinner and saved by grace...I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus...I am a new man and the old man is dead.

I think. Understand?
 

Hopeful

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I think there's a lot of confusion on this subject and I'm not 100% either ay yet, but boy there sure seems to be a lot of scriptures which could support this idea. Like, all things have become new...the old man is dead...We are in Christ and Christ in us, and even more but it's late.

I think the crux of it may be...that when we become born again and are saved, then we are not under the Law any more, which is to say, we don't look to the law to establish our righteousness any more, now we look to our Lord and savior, Jesus Christ. We follow Him, not the law.

Now this doesn't mean that we can sin, god forbid, we still need to obey. But if we're following the Lord and being led by the Spirit, then we will not sin. When we fall at times and do sin, then we repent and ask His forgiveness and contiue on in our walk.

So now...I am not a sinner and saved by grace...I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus...I am a new man and the old man is dead.

I think. Understand?
If we "fall", we haven't been "following Christ" or "walking in the Spirit".
The ensuing repentance from sin, if any, will be the final turn from sin...if it is a real repentance from sin.
It will also be our first day in Christ.
 

Quantrill

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Someone came up to A.W. Pink once, explaining how he reached a place where he didn't sin anymore. I believe it was Pink, but could be mistaken.

Pink responded, "I would like to talk to your wife".

Quantrill
 

Edward

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If we "fall", we haven't been "following Christ" or "walking in the Spirit".
The ensuing repentance from sin, if any, will be the final turn from sin...if it is a real repentance from sin.
It will also be our first day in Christ.

I'll agree with that. We are not walking in the Spirit if we fall and sin. But our Lord knows that we have not been perfected yet and have many distractions in this carnival called Earth. But if we repent and turn back to God, then His love covers a multitude of sins so He will certainly forgive us and we can continue our walk with Him.

King David had some troubles and fell hard a few times but he got back up and turned back to the Lord in repentance and is now called a man after God's own heart. The way I'm starting to understand it is, David did not sin as a way of life and continually sin. So he wasn't living in sin but was living for the Lord and obeying as a general rule and then he sinned by accident or distraction and then repented again.

That's why I have a wee problem in calling myself a sinner. I am the righteousness of God in Christ, so therefore a saint, right?

I'm not saying I never sin, but I don't live a lifestyle of sin as I used to...
Okay, question for you (or whoever)...
Do you think that you could go a whole day without sinning? I have.
Could you not sin for two hours? Of course! It is possible to not sin if we are diligent and keep focused on Jesus...
 

Who Me

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I just caught a little flak for posting about life without sin.
It got me wondering...isn't that the point of giving up this world to follow Christ?

The point of following Jesus is just that to follow him. Yes he has forgiven us our sins, yes he's given us his rightousness, a place in heaven etc etc etc

But we follow him because of who he is, not for what we get out of it.
 

Hopeful

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I'll agree with that. We are not walking in the Spirit if we fall and sin. But our Lord knows that we have not been perfected yet and have many distractions in this carnival called Earth.
You seem to be unaware of Heb 10:14..."For by one offering He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."
And Heb 10:10 says that already happened..."By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."
We have been perfected.
But if we repent and turn back to God, then His love covers a multitude of sins so He will certainly forgive us and we can continue our walk with Him.
Don't you mean..."If we repent, really this time, and turn to God..."?
False repentances after false repentances are just lies to God.
King David had some troubles and fell hard a few times but he got back up and turned back to the Lord in repentance and is now called a man after God's own heart. The way I'm starting to understand it is, David did not sin as a way of life and continually sin. So he wasn't living in sin but was living for the Lord and obeying as a general rule and then he sinned by accident or distraction and then repented again.
David lived under a covenant that didn't have rebirth.
He could never have lived without catering to the "flesh".
Our "flesh", however, has been destroyed at our water baptism into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection. (Rom 6:3-6)
And verse 7?..."For he that is dead has been freed from sin."
That's why I have a wee problem in calling myself a sinner. I am the righteousness of God in Christ, so therefore a saint, right?
Not if you still commit/serve sin, as we can only serve one master.
I'm not saying I never sin, but I don't live a lifestyle of sin as I used to...
Okay, question for you (or whoever)...
Do you think that you could go a whole day without sinning? I have.
Could you not sin for two hours? Of course! It is possible to not sin if we are diligent and keep focused on Jesus...
One sin a year, every year, IS a life-style of sin.
Jesus came and died so we don't have to commit sin anymore.
He made it possible to be "diligent" and "focused".
Don't let His sufferings for you be wasted.
 
Last edited:

Hopeful

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The point of following Jesus is just that to follow him. Yes he has forgiven us our sins, yes he's given us his rightousness, a place in heaven etc etc etc

But we follow him because of who he is, not for what we get out of it.
Amen to that, and we get a lot !!!
Including this guarantee..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)
Keep looking for the "escapes" provided by God.
 

Hopeful

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Someone came up to A.W. Pink once, explaining how he reached a place where he didn't sin anymore. I believe it was Pink, but could be mistaken.

Pink responded, "I would like to talk to your wife".

Quantrill
I guess Pink was still a servant of sin.
Jesus said men trying to serve two master will hate the one and love the other. (Matt 6:24)
Sinners hate God.
 

for_his_glory

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Hopeful how do you reconcile 1Corinthians 15:52-54 and say we have no sin?

We still live in a corruptible body as the flesh is weak and will sin, but the Spirit is stronger within our renewed inner man that in the Spirit we can not sin. We that are of Christ do not willingly sin, but will mess up at times as even the Prophets, Paul, Peter and many others have sinned against God, but forgiven when they repented. None of us are perfect yet, but are being perfected daily.

Look at what the Bible says about righteousness:

wordatwork.org.uk - When do Christians become perfect

Ephesians 1:13 we were included in Christ when we heard the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation. Having believed, we were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the day of redemption of those who are God's possessions.

Romans 10:4 Jesus ended the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. We are still under the moral laws.

Romans 5:17 We receive God's abundant provision of grace and gift of righteousness through Christ Jesus.

Galatians 5:5 by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness we hope for.

None of these verses state that we are now perfect human beings as we live our lives day by day. The Ephesians passage says that the Holy Spirit is a guarantee of our inheritance because our redemption is not yet complete. Galatians 5:5 says that we are waiting by faith for a future righteousness which we do not have yet because we are still housed in this fleshly body that is corruptible.

In Romans 8:23-25 Paul tells us that we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved, but hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have, but if we hope for what we do not have yet we wait for it patiently.

Jesus credited us with His righteousness when we believed in Him, Romans 4:5, and our sins are covered by it, but it is clear that we are also waiting for what we do not have yet being the redemption of our bodies.
 

Edward

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You seem to be unaware of Heb 10:14..."For by one offering He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."
And Heb 10:10 says that already happened..."By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."
We have been perfected.

Don't you mean..."If we repent, really this time, and turn to God..."?
False repentances after false repentances are just lies to God.

David lived under a covenant that didn't have rebirth.
He could never have lived without catering to the "flesh".
Our "flesh", however, has been destroyed at our water baptism into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection. (Rom 6:3-6)
And verse 7?..."For he that is dead has been freed from sin."

Not if you still commit/serve sin, as we can only serve one master.

One sin a year, every year, IS a life-style of sin.
Jesus came and died so we don't have to commit sin anymore.
He made it possible to be "diligent" and "focused".
Don't let His sufferings for you be wasted.

I agree with part of what you say. I'm not sure I'm able to agree yet about like, one sin a year is a lifestyle of sin...Ummmm, well what about King David? He had quite a few incidents and yet was still called a man after God's own heart. From how you spoke, David led a lifestyle of sin and I don't think I buy that.

Nevertheless, I do think that we can be sinless, at least for periods of time. Plus, as I understand it, sanctification and perfecting of us is a process done over time and we have not yet been transfigured. But I can se the changes within me over time. I do NOT react to a lot of things like I used to. And that, is the Lord working on me.
 

Hopeful

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Hopeful how do you reconcile 1Corinthians 15:52-54 and say we have no sin?
Our skin and bones don't cause us to sin.
It is our mind that controls the "wheel".
Our bodies will die and rot away, as they are corruptible: but we will not be judged for our hangnails and eye glasses.
We still live in a corruptible body as the flesh is weak and will sin, but the Spirit is stronger within our renewed inner man that in the Spirit we can not sin. We that are of Christ do not willingly sin, but will mess up at times as even the Prophets, Paul, Peter and many others have sinned against God, but forgiven when they repented. None of us are perfect yet, but are being perfected daily.
Our bodies are controlled by our minds.
You can't blame the car for your speeding ticket.
We can be perfectly sinless, in spite of our bad knees and allergies.
It is the mind that controls how we react to temptation, not our hands and feet.
Look at what the Bible says about righteousness:
wordatwork.org.uk - When do Christians become perfect
Ephesians 1:13 we were included in Christ when we heard the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation. Having believed, we were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the day of redemption of those who are God's possessions.
"Included in Christ"...
There is no unrighteous "in Christ".
As believers are in fact "in Christ", there can be no unrighteousness in us either.
Romans 10:4 Jesus ended the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. We are still under the moral laws.
...so there may be righteousness for everyone who believes!
I believe!
Romans 5:17 We receive God's abundant provision of grace and gift of righteousness through Christ Jesus.
It seems even your source says we have received the gift of righteousness.
Galatians 5:5 by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness we hope for.
Gal 5:5 (KJV)..."For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith."
The hope of righteousness is eternal life.
Your version of scripture has inferred an alternate POV.
Lets look at another scripture concerning righteousness..."But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:" (Rom 3:21-22)
True righteousness is here now.
None of these verses state that we are now perfect human beings as we live our lives day by day. The Ephesians passage says that the Holy Spirit is a guarantee of our inheritance because our redemption is not yet complete. Galatians 5:5 says that we are waiting by faith for a future righteousness which we do not have yet because we are still housed in this fleshly body that is corruptible
To the contrary, they all refer to the righteousness available to mankind now.
In Romans 8:23-25 Paul tells us that we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved, but hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have, but if we hope for what we do not have yet we wait for it patiently.
Yep, we await the resurrection of the dead.
And then the judgement.
The righteous shall receive eternal life and the unrighteous will receive eternal damnation.
Which begs the question...How should we be acting while still alive?
Jesus credited us with His righteousness when we believed in Him, Romans 4:5, and our sins are covered by it, but it is clear that we are also waiting for what we do not have yet being the redemption of our bodies.
You can't blame your hands and feet for sin.
If Jesus credited us with righteousness, why can't we be righteous?
 

Hopeful

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I agree with part of what you say. I'm not sure I'm able to agree yet about like, one sin a year is a lifestyle of sin...Ummmm, well what about King David? He had quite a few incidents and yet was still called a man after God's own heart. From how you spoke, David led a lifestyle of sin and I don't think I buy that.
David had the Mosaic Law's remediation for sins.
But he didn't have rebirth. He was a son of Adam all his life, whereas we can kill the old man and be reborn of God's seed.
Remember Jesus' parables about fig trees not being able to bear grapes?
If you are reborn of Godly seed, it is impossible to bear devilish fruit.
Nevertheless, I do think that we can be sinless, at least for periods of time. Plus, as I understand it, sanctification and perfecting of us is a process done over time and we have not yet been transfigured. But I can se the changes within me over time. I do NOT react to a lot of things like I used to. And that, is the Lord working on me.
Sanctification isn't a process.
It happens at our baptism into Christ when our past sins are remitted and we are made new creatures: holy, separate, consecrated, atoned for, all definitions of the word "sanctified".

If the Lord is working on you, you should be ready for my words.
 

ezrider

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If one thinks himself to be perfect and commits no sin, yet stands ready to declare the sins of another, then that man remains trapped in a life of sin.
 

Hopeful

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If one thinks himself to be perfect and commits no sin, yet stands ready to declare the sins of another, then that man remains trapped in a life of sin.
Where is that in the bible?
Does it apply to Jesus, who called the leaders of Israeli religion "liars and hypocrites"?

BTW, most folks seem ready to declare their own sins without prodding or accusations from others.
 

for_his_glory

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Our skin and bones don't cause us to sin.
It is our mind that controls the "wheel".
Our bodies will die and rot away, as they are corruptible: but we will not be judged for our hangnails and eye glasses.

Our bodies are controlled by our minds.
You can't blame the car for your speeding ticket.
We can be perfectly sinless, in spite of our bad knees and allergies.
It is the mind that controls how we react to temptation, not our hands and feet.

"Included in Christ"...
There is no unrighteous "in Christ".
As believers are in fact "in Christ", there can be no unrighteousness in us either.

...so there may be righteousness for everyone who believes!
I believe!

It seems even your source says we have received the gift of righteousness.

Gal 5:5 (KJV)..."For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith."
The hope of righteousness is eternal life.
Your version of scripture has inferred an alternate POV.
Lets look at another scripture concerning righteousness..."But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe:" (Rom 3:21-22)
True righteousness is here now.

To the contrary, they all refer to the righteousness available to mankind now.

Yep, we await the resurrection of the dead.
And then the judgement.
The righteous shall receive eternal life and the unrighteous will receive eternal damnation.
Which begs the question...How should we be acting while still alive?

You can't blame your hands and feet for sin.
If Jesus credited us with righteousness, why can't we be righteous?
Sorry that you can not grasp the content in 1 Corinthians 15:52-54 or Galatians 5:16-21 as I believe we all fall into one of those categories at time, even though we do not want to. Are you more perfect than the Prophets and Disciples who did sin at times, but we certainly forgiven when they repented.
 

Seasoned by Grace

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Hopeful my brother
Jesus came and died so we don't have to commit sin anymore.

God disagrees with you.
Read the verses below.

First John 5:16, two verses earlier: “If anyone sees his brother sinning, [a Christian] committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life.” So he can’t mean that Christians don’t sin, because he just gave instruction for how to help Christians who do sin.

The same thing is true in 1 John 1:8–10: “ If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”

So in the meaning of 1 John 5:18, I think here in the context, the first and obvious meaning would be: The one who is born of God does not sin unto death; that is, we don’t make peace with sin, settle into a pattern of sinning that will destroy us in the end, prove that we are not truly born of God and are not truly Christians. Christians walk in the light, and, according to 1 John 1:8–10, walking in the light is not sinlessness. It is walking in a way that you have eyes to see in the light the ugliness of what you just did, and you are sorry for it. You confess it. You keep short accounts with God, and you move on.

So I think “does not sin” means (1) doesn’t commit the sin unto death, and (2) doesn’t settle into a pattern of sinning that proves you have no spiritual life in you.

Seasoned by Grace
 

Edward

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David had the Mosaic Law's remediation for sins.
But he didn't have rebirth. He was a son of Adam all his life, whereas we can kill the old man and be reborn of God's seed.
Remember Jesus' parables about fig trees not being able to bear grapes?
If you are reborn of Godly seed, it is impossible to bear devilish fruit.

Sanctification isn't a process.
It happens at our baptism into Christ when our past sins are remitted and we are made new creatures: holy, separate, consecrated, atoned for, all definitions of the word "sanctified".

If the Lord is working on you, you should be ready for my words.

So sanctification isn't a process which takes time? Is that how they slipped the lie in? lol. It is true that even when I do sin and I know it, I do not leave a trail of victims. I don't mess people over. But my conscience speaks to me loud and often. I wasn't sure before if our conscience's voice was our own spirit or the Holy Spirit. But lately I'm leaning into it must be the Holy Spirit.

I do feel like a new creature. And scripture sure seems to back that up. So even if I am the righteousness of God in Christ, perhaps it is simply the amount of demonic oppression that the world is so full of right now. And the myriad of distractions that are upon us now. With the technological advances there are more than ever distractions which will keep our mind off of God.

Through my own walk over time it has become apparent to me that...the more I (we) obey, the more the Lord does for us. Sometimes I think the Lord allowed covid in order to give all people more time to read His Word, Pray to Him and do not sin. Because time is short now...
 
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