Living without sin?

[Hopeful]

So why couldn't Hopeful seek to attain a state of sinlessness? Maybe he has attained it or a better version than most? After all, it is indeed the soul vs spirit. The flesh body will return to dust.

Lord what do you think of my plans for the day? (soul) vs
Lord what are your plans for us today? (spirit)

When we are in faith we are led by the Spirit and thus can not sin. When we are not in faith we are being led by the soul or flesh so to speak.

Does it seem arrogant to say I am sinless? I think not. We all know how faith works. First you believe and then speak the word. I believe that myself, I would rather err on the side of faith if (it did turn out to be an error) it even had not manifested yet. Make sense?

I do sin sometimes. Yet I am sinless in that Christ is in me. I have not yet been Glorified yet, so of course my spirit and my soul both do have contentions until a time when I be redeemed and transfigured.

Your inference is that God's "new creature" is just like the old one that was killed at water baptism into Christ's death.
It isn't.
Christ will not reside in a polluted temple.

 

[daninthelionsden]

So why couldn't Hopeful seek to attain a state of sinlessness? Maybe he has attained it or a better version than most? After all, it is indeed the soul vs spirit. The flesh body will return to dust.

Lord what do you think of my plans for the day? (soul) vs
Lord what are your plans for us today? (spirit)

When we are in faith we are led by the Spirit and thus can not sin. When we are not in faith we are being led by the soul or flesh so to speak.

Does it seem arrogant to say I am sinless? I think not. We all know how faith works. First you believe and then speak the word. I believe that myself, I would rather err on the side of faith if (it did turn out to be an error) it even had not manifested yet. Make sense?

I do sin sometimes. Yet I am sinless in that Christ is in me. I have not yet been Glorified yet, so of course my spirit and my soul both do have contentions until a time when I be redeemed and transfigured.

But that is not what Hopeful is saying. He is stating he is perfect body and soul.

 

[Hopeful]

But that is not what Hopeful is saying. He is stating he is perfect body and soul.

I won't have a perfect body till I get my new one, just as Paul wrote about in Phil 3:21..."Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself."
Thanks be to God I won't be judged imperfect for requiring glasses and the occasional knee meds.

 

[daninthelionsden]

I won't have a perfect body till I get my new one, just as Paul wrote about in Phil 3:21..."Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself."
Thanks be to God I won't be judged imperfect for requiring glasses and the occasional knee meds.

Maybe I should be more precise and say "Flesh" or workings thereof.

 

[Hopeful]

Maybe I should be more precise and say "Flesh" or workings thereof.

Don't confuse the "fleshly mind" with the skin and bones we move around in.
The first was crucified with Christ, and the second will turn to dust, if Jesus doesn't come back while we are still around.

 

[daninthelionsden]

Don't confuse the "fleshly mind" with the skin and bones we move around in.
The first was crucified with Christ, and the second will turn to dust, if Jesus doesn't come back while we are still around.

You remind me so much of people who abuse OSAS and say "I am saved, therefore I can do no wrong".

 

[Hopeful]

You remind me so much of people who abuse OSAS and say "I am saved, therefore I can do no wrong".

Nobody can say they "are saved" till after the final judgement of God.
It is on us to show our faith in God by obedience to Him till then.
Thankfully, God has made it possible, with the gifts of repentance from sin, rebirth from His own seed, and the Holy Ghost within us...to mention just a few of His gifts.
Then there is His word, His apostles and prophets, fellowship with like minded brethren, and prayer.

 

[daninthelionsden]

Nobody can say they "are saved" till after the final judgement of God.
It is on us to show our faith in God by obedience to Him till then.
Thankfully, God has made it possible, with the gifts of repentance from sin, rebirth from His own seed, and the Holy Ghost within us...to mention just a few of His gifts.
Then there is His word, His apostles and prophets, fellowship with like minded brethren, and prayer.

I do appreciate you confirming and encouraging my belief and continued growth in obedience to our Lord. I came from a grace heavy step-family and much harm was done to me in the name of God. That's why you trigger my "spider senses" when you say "I sin not". It's like someone asking "Don't you trust me?" EVERY time someone asked me that over the decades, I knew I was in for treachery.

 

[JLB]

So why couldn't Hopeful seek to attain a state of sinlessness? Maybe he has attained it or a better version than most? After all, it is indeed the soul vs spirit. The flesh body will return to dust.

Lord what do you think of my plans for the day? (soul) vs
Lord what are your plans for us today? (spirit)

When we are in faith we are led by the Spirit and thus can not sin. When we are not in faith we are being led by the soul or flesh so to speak.

Does it seem arrogant to say I am sinless? I think not. We all know how faith works. First you believe and then speak the word. I believe that myself, I would rather err on the side of faith if (it did turn out to be an error) it even had not manifested yet. Make sense?

I do sin sometimes. Yet I am sinless in that Christ is in me. I have not yet been Glorified yet, so of course my spirit and my soul both do have contentions until a time when I be redeemed and transfigured.

We are aware of these things concerning walking in the Spirit vs walking according to the flesh.


What Hopeful is saying, that the physical body died at water baptism for those who “truly repented”, in which our physical body no longer sins.

This is hopefuls claim. He makes water baptism the end all be all to the Christian walk, while ignoring the baptism with the Holy Spirit.


What I am saying is being dunked in natural water does not remove sin from our physical body. The sins remains in our flesh even after water baptism and we must daily put to death, crucify the sinful deeds of the flesh by the power of the Spirit.


Here are some verses that Paul wrote to people who were baptized in water.

• Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. Romans 6:12-14



I believe it’s crystal clear that we ourselves must not allow sin that is in our mortal body, to reign and rule over us, to bring us back into bondage to its lustful cravings.



Paul says we are not to “present our members”, the members of our physical body, as instruments of unrighteousness.


Example:

Don’t subject your eyes to look at things that will stimulate sinful desires.

Don’t subject your ears to listen to things that will stimulate sinful desires.




JLB

 

[JLB]

Nobody can say they "are saved" till after the final judgement of God.

While I agree with this, we are still saved, born again, regenerated now in this life in that we have the power to become sons of God.


Now we are saved by faith.

If we have faith in/from Christ for salvation then by default we do not yet have the salvation we are hoping for... For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.
Romans 8:24-25





JLB

 

[JLB]

Your inference is that God's "new creature" is just like the old one that was killed at water baptism into Christ's death.
It isn't.
Christ will not reside in a polluted temple.

I don’t take his understanding of the flesh vs the Spirit to mean the “new creature” is like the old one.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:16-17


Do you understand that the born again believer, who has the Spirit of God within them has a body that still contains sin, that is opposed to the Spirit.

• For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another...

Our physical body contains sin, that manifests itself by lustful cravings that are contrary to the righteous desires of the Spirit within us.


If we yield to the sinful desires of the flesh so that we obey it, rather than obeying the desires of the Spirit, we are practicing unrighteousness rather than practicing righteousness.


Here is a list of some of the manifestations of the flesh.


Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


Again, here are the things the physical body, the flesh of born again, baptized Christians desires to do:

adultery,
fornication,
uncleanness,
lewdness,
idolatry,
sorcery,
hatred,
contentions,
jealousies,
outbursts of wrath,
selfish ambitions,
dissensions,
heresies,
envy,
murders,
drunkenness,
revelries,
and the like; (meaning anything like what’s mentioned above)


Here is a list of what the Spirit within us desires:


But the fruit of the Spirit is —

love,
joy,
peace,
longsuffering,
kindness,
goodness,
faithfulness,
gentleness,
self-control.
Against such there is no law.



We must learn to do things that strengthen our inner man in which our resolve to walk according to the Spirit is stronger than the desires of our flesh.


Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8

• For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption,
• but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

Investing our time and effort towards godliness, rather than the things of this world is how we will overcome.



Peter says it this way, and he says this to born again, baptized Christians. — To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:


Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 2 Peter 1:2-9


But also for this very reason, giving all diligence,

add to your faith —

virtue,
to virtue knowledge,
to knowledge self-control,
to self-control perseverance,
to perseverance godliness,
to godliness brotherly kindness,
and to brotherly kindness love.

• For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

JLB

 

[WalterandDebbie]

I just caught a little flak for posting about life without sin.
It got me wondering...isn't that the point of giving up this world to follow Christ?

Amen, Should we consider this below?

Life Without Sin

Love, Walter

 

[daninthelionsden]

Nobody can say they "are saved" till after the final judgement of God.
It is on us to show our faith in God by obedience to Him till then.
Thankfully, God has made it possible, with the gifts of repentance from sin, rebirth from His own seed, and the Holy Ghost within us...to mention just a few of His gifts.
Then there is His word, His apostles and prophets, fellowship with like minded brethren, and prayer.

The biggest problem I see is that if you ever were to slip up, could you bring yourself to confession/repentance/atonement to your brother? or are you now a prisoner of your own making and never to own up to anything because you not only don't sin, but can't sin else it show you to be human like the rest of us? I personally could never trust you fully in my life. I fear you would never admit to anything.

 

[Hopeful]

I do appreciate you confirming and encouraging my belief and continued growth in obedience to our Lord. I came from a grace heavy step-family and much harm was done to me in the name of God. That's why you trigger my "spider senses" when you say "I sin not". It's like someone asking "Don't you trust me?" EVERY time someone asked me that over the decades, I knew I was in for treachery.

I hear ya'.
Blessed searchers always insure they are not being "led off the plank".

Good questions from all posters, so thanks.
If I have not answered anybody's questions sufficiently, ask them again.

 

[Hopeful]

We are aware of these things concerning walking in the Spirit vs walking according to the flesh.
What Hopeful is saying, that the physical body died at water baptism for those who “truly repented”, in which our physical body no longer sins.

This is hopefuls claim. He makes water baptism the end all be all to the Christian walk, while ignoring the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

Did not Jesus say..."He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; ..." (Mark 16:16) ?
As per Peter in Acts 2:38..."...Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Water baptism (with a real turn from sin) will result in the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

What I am saying is being dunked in natural water does not remove sin from our physical body. The sins remains in our flesh even after water baptism and we must daily put to death, crucify the sinful deeds of the flesh by the power of the Spirit.


Here are some verses that Paul wrote to people who were baptized in water.

• Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. Romans 6:12-14



I believe it’s crystal clear that we ourselves must not allow sin that is in our mortal body, to reign and rule over us, to bring us back into bondage to its lustful cravings.



Paul says we are not to “present our members”, the members of our physical body, as instruments of unrighteousness.


Example:

Don’t subject your eyes to look at things that will stimulate sinful desires.

Don’t subject your ears to listen to things that will stimulate sinful desires.




JLB

 

[Hopeful]

I don’t take his understanding of the flesh vs the Spirit to mean the “new creature” is like the old one.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. Galatians 5:16-17
Do you understand that the born again believer, who has the Spirit of God within them has a body that still contains sin, that is opposed to the Spirit.

You are again walking "both sides of the fence".
If the allegedly killed old man with the fleshly mind still controls one's actions, it is still an "old creature".
This in spite of it's alleged death with Christ.
If it wasn't killed, it is still alive.

• For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another...

Our physical body contains sin, that manifests itself by lustful cravings that are contrary to the righteous desires of the Spirit within us.

Prove it, in view of Gal 5:24..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."

If we yield to the sinful desires of the flesh so that we obey it, rather than obeying the desires of the Spirit, we are practicing unrighteousness rather than practicing righteousness.


Here is a list of some of the manifestations of the flesh.


Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21


Again, here are the things the physical body, the flesh of born again, baptized Christians desires to do:

adultery,
fornication,
uncleanness,
lewdness,
idolatry,
sorcery,
hatred,
contentions,
jealousies,
outbursts of wrath,
selfish ambitions,
dissensions,
heresies,
envy,
murders,
drunkenness,
revelries,
and the like; (meaning anything like what’s mentioned above)


Here is a list of what the Spirit within us desires:


But the fruit of the Spirit is —

love,
joy,
peace,
longsuffering,
kindness,
goodness,
faithfulness,
gentleness,
self-control.
Against such there is no law.



We must learn to do things that strengthen our inner man in which our resolve to walk according to the Spirit is stronger than the desires of our flesh.


Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8

• For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption,
• but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

Investing our time and effort towards godliness, rather than the things of this world is how we will overcome.



Peter says it this way, and he says this to born again, baptized Christians. — To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

I wasn't born again or baptized when I first read it.

Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 2 Peter 1:2-9


But also for this very reason, giving all diligence,

add to your faith —

virtue,
to virtue knowledge,
to knowledge self-control,
to self-control perseverance,
to perseverance godliness,
to godliness brotherly kindness,
and to brotherly kindness love.

• For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins

JLB

 

[JLB]

Did not Jesus say..."He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; ..." (Mark 16:16) ?

Yes.

As per Peter in Acts 2:38..."...Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Amen.

Water baptism (with a real turn from sin) will result in the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

False. Baptism in water is just one of three baptisms; or as I put it, one of the three expressions of the one baptism.

There are three different baptisms with three different baptizers.


Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:14-17

• They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
  Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5

• John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.

JLB

 

[JLB]

You are again walking "both sides of the fence".

It is good that you grasp one thing and also not let go of the other; for the one who fears God comes forth with both of them. Ecclesiastes 7:18

 

[JLB]

You are again walking "both sides of the fence".
If the allegedly killed old man with the fleshly mind still controls one's actions, it is still an "old creature".
This in spite of it's alleged death with Christ.
If it wasn't killed, it is still alive.

Exactly. You are the one who is claiming the physical body dies at water baptism.

Utter nonsense.


You have been given the scriptures to prove otherwise.


If your physical body has not literally died, and been resurrected at the coming of the Lord, then it is alive, along with the sin that dwells in it.


Here are the plain and clear, irrefutable words of scripture written by the apostle Paul to those who had been baptized in water...


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12


We are joined with Him in the LIKENESS of His death through baptism.



For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection. Romans 6:5


We do not literally die when we are baptized in water, nor are we literally resurrected from the dead, when we come up from the water.




JLB

 

[Hopeful]

Amen, Should we consider this below?

Life Without Sin

Love, Walter

The site offers a lot of options.
Could you be more specific?