Living without sin?

[Hopeful]

The biggest problem I see is that if you ever were to slip up, could you bring yourself to confession/repentance/atonement to your brother? or are you now a prisoner of your own making and never to own up to anything because you not only don't sin, but can't sin else it show you to be human like the rest of us? I personally could never trust you fully in my life. I fear you would never admit to anything.

If I sinned again, it would prove that I wasn't reborn of God's seed, that my "turn from" sin (repentance) was a lie, and that I wasn't a Christian to begin with.
I would need to become a Christian.
BTW, who is really the prisoner? The man who serves God or the man who serves sin?
Jesus did say the truth would free us from committing sin, (John 8:32-34), so I intend to remain free.

 

[Hopeful]

Yes.
Amen.

False. Baptism in water is just one of three baptisms; or as I put it, one of the three expressions of the one baptism.

Then Peter was a liar...which I don't believe for an instant.
He said..."Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
Baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of sins is with water.

There are three different baptisms with three different baptizers.

Side track...

Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:14-17

• They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
  Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5

• John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.

JLB

Step one and step two.

 

[Hopeful]

It is good that you grasp one thing and also not let go of the other; for the one who fears God comes forth with both of them. Ecclesiastes 7:18

Double mindedness isn't of God.

 

[Hopeful]

Exactly. You are the one who is claiming the physical body dies at water baptism.
Utter nonsense.

Who in this thread glorifies God with news of freedom from sin?
The one alive again after the crucifixion of the old man, or the one denying it's plausibility?

You have been given the scriptures to prove otherwise.

If your physical body has not literally died, and been resurrected at the coming of the Lord, then it is alive, along with the sin that dwells in it.

KInda' right.
After my "immersion" into Christ's crucifixion, I was raised from the dead...to walk in newness of life...like Rom 6:4 states. "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."

I had been quickened by the Holy Spirit...like Rom 8:11 says..."But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."

Here are the plain and clear, irrefutable words of scripture written by the apostle Paul to those who had been baptized in water...
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12
We are joined with Him in the LIKENESS of His death through baptism.
For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection. Romans 6:5
We do not literally die when we are baptized in water, nor are we literally resurrected from the dead, when we come up from the water.

Obey, and live forever.

 

[JLB]

Then Peter was a liar...which I don't believe for an instant.
He said..."Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2:38)
Baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of sins is with water.

Actually it was Peter and John who went down to Samaria because those who had received the message of Christ and baptized in water, in the name of the Lord Jesus had not yet received the Holy Spirit.

• they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.

• For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

• Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:14-17



Being baptized in water, is a different baptism that the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

• for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5



As we all can see, the baptism in water does not mean a person is baptized with the Holy Spirit.


They are two different baptisms.


Notice the phrase “shall be” associated with water baptism.

Those who had already been water baptized shall look forward to being baptized with the Holy Spirit. The baptism with the Spirit did not occur at water baptism but afterward.


The Apostles were baptized by John, but 3 1/2 years later received the baptism with the Spirit by Jesus Christ.


The people of Samaria also had been baptized in water in the name of the Lord Jesus but it wasn’t until the Apostles Peter and John came down and laid hands on them, that they received the Holy Spirit; the baptism with the Holy Spirit.



Likewise Peter also said those who repented and were baptized in water also could look for to receiving the Holy Spirit, in which he said “you shall” receive the promise of the Father.


Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.” Acts 2:38-39


First comes repentance and the forgiveness of sins, then a person is eligible to receive the Holy Spirit.


This is the New Testament pattern.


Believe and there obey the Gospel to repent. Receive the forgiveness of sins, then comes baptism.


You are trying to lump together two different baptisms into one because you have been indoctrinated to believe this.




Water baptism is different that the baptism with the Spirit, which is called the promise of the Father.



Read this words of Jesus carefully, and choose to believe Jesus instead of your denominational dogma.



And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5

• John truly baptized with water,
• but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.

Cant you see the baptism with the Holy Spirit is a different baptism from water baptism?



JLB

 

[JLB]

Side track...

Sorry but the subject we are discussing is baptism.

There are other baptisms besides water baptism.

Baptism with the Spirit is different than baptism in water.



And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5

• John truly baptized with water,
• but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.

Please acknowledge that you understand the two different baptism being described by Jesus Christ?

 

[JLB]

Double mindedness isn't of God.

I agree. Double mindedness is not from God.

Obviously the scripture I gave doesn’t mention double mindedness.


Please do not add to what the scripture says.


It is good that you grasp one thing and also not let go of the other; for the one who fears God comes forth with both of them. Ecclesiastes 7:18


Here is an example of grasping one thing and not letting go of another, because you fear God, and don’t want to make Him out to be a liar.


And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5

• John truly baptized with water,
• but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.

We grasp the concept of water baptism while not letting go of the concept of baptism with the Spirit.






JLB

 

[JLB]

Who in this thread glorifies God with news of freedom from sin?

I do, by reading and believing what Jesus and His Apostles teach us.


We must not let sin in our body reign in dominion over us.


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. Romans 6:12-14

We must receive the Holy Spirit the way Jesus and His Apostles taught us, so we can walk according to the Spirit rather than walk according to the flesh.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
Galatians 5:16-17


When you deny what Jesus teaches, you do not glorify Him.





JLB

 

[JLB]

I had been quickened by the Holy Spirit...like Rom 8:11 says..."But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you."

Quickening by the Spirit refers to the resurrection from the dead. The Spirit will “give life” or “quicken” our dead bodies.

The resurrection from the dead occurs at Hs coming.

Quickening in this passage means to make alive your mortal body. This occurs at the resurrection.

In this life now, the Spirit works with us to “put to death” the deeds of the body. After we die, the dead in Christ will be “made alive” (quickened; given life) by the Spirit, the same Spirit by which Jesus Christ was raised from the dead.


Now in this life we must put to death the sinful deeds of the flesh by the Spirit.

• but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:11-13





JLB

 

[WalterandDebbie]

The site offers a lot of options.
Could you be more specific?

Here is just one: Is it possible to live without sinning? But we do not have to yield unto temptation, because Jesus Christ have left us an example to follow His steps.

Love, Walter

 

[Hopeful]

Actually it was Peter and John who went down to Samaria because those who had received the message of Christ and baptized in water, in the name of the Lord Jesus had not yet received the Holy Spirit.

I made no mention of Samaria. ???

• they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.

• For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

• Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:14-17
Being baptized in water, is a different baptism that the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

Yes, it is.

• for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5



As we all can see, the baptism in water does not mean a person is baptized with the Holy Spirit.


They are two different baptisms.


Notice the phrase “shall be” associated with water baptism.

Those who had already been water baptized shall look forward to being baptized with the Holy Spirit. The baptism with the Spirit did not occur at water baptism but afterward.


The Apostles were baptized by John, but 3 1/2 years later received the baptism with the Spirit by Jesus Christ.


The people of Samaria also had been baptized in water in the name of the Lord Jesus but it wasn’t until the Apostles Peter and John came down and laid hands on them, that they received the Holy Spirit; the baptism with the Holy Spirit.



Likewise Peter also said those who repented and were baptized in water also could look for to receiving the Holy Spirit, in which he said “you shall” receive the promise of the Father.


Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.” Acts 2:38-39


First comes repentance and the forgiveness of sins, then a person is eligible to receive the Holy Spirit.


This is the New Testament pattern.


Believe and there obey the Gospel to repent. Receive the forgiveness of sins, then comes baptism.


You are trying to lump together two different baptisms into one because you have been indoctrinated to believe this.




Water baptism is different that the baptism with the Spirit, which is called the promise of the Father.

Read this words of Jesus carefully, and choose to believe Jesus instead of your denominational dogma.
And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5

• John truly baptized with water,
• but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.

Cant you see the baptism with the Holy Spirit is a different baptism from water baptism
JLB

I agree entirely.
But besides Cornelius and his house, nobody received the gift of the Holy Ghost without first being baptized by water.

 

[Hopeful]

Sorry but the subject we are discussing is baptism.

There are other baptisms besides water baptism.

Baptism with the Spirit is different than baptism in water.



And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5

• John truly baptized with water,
• but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.

Please acknowledge that you understand the two different baptism being described by Jesus Christ?

I do understand these are two different baptisms.
But without the baptism (in water) in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and a true turn from sin, (repentance from sin), there won't be a baptism of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Hopeful]

Sorry but the subject we are discussing is baptism.

There are other baptisms besides water baptism.

Baptism with the Spirit is different than baptism in water.



And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5

• John truly baptized with water,
• but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.

Please acknowledge that you understand the two different baptism being described by Jesus Christ?

I do understand these are two different baptisms.
But without the baptism (in water) in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and a true turn from sin, (repentance from sin), there won't be a baptism of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Hopeful]

Sorry but the subject we are discussing is baptism.

There are other baptisms besides water baptism.

Baptism with the Spirit is different than baptism in water.



And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5

• John truly baptized with water,
• but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.

Please acknowledge that you understand the two different baptism being described by Jesus Christ?

I do these are two different baptisms.
But without understand the baptism (in water) in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and a true turn from sin, (repentance from sin), there won't be a baptism of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Hopeful]

Sorry but the subject we are discussing is baptism.

There are other baptisms besides water baptism.

Baptism with the Spirit is different than baptism in water.



And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5

• John truly baptized with water,
• but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.

Please acknowledge that you understand the two different baptism being described by Jesus Christ?

I do understand these are two different baptisms.
But without the baptism (in water) in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and a true turn from sin, (repentance from sin), there won't be a baptism of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Hopeful]

Actually it was Peter and John who went down to Samaria because those who had received the message of Christ and baptized in water, in the name of the Lord Jesus had not yet received the Holy Spirit.

• they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.

• For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

• Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. Acts 8:14-17



Being baptized in water, is a different baptism that the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

• for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5



As we all can see, the baptism in water does not mean a person is baptized with the Holy Spirit.


They are two different baptisms.


Notice the phrase “shall be” associated with water baptism.

Those who had already been water baptized shall look forward to being baptized with the Holy Spirit. The baptism with the Spirit did not occur at water baptism but afterward.


The Apostles were baptized by John, but 3 1/2 years later received the baptism with the Spirit by Jesus Christ.


The people of Samaria also had been baptized in water in the name of the Lord Jesus but it wasn’t until the Apostles Peter and John came down and laid hands on them, that they received the Holy Spirit; the baptism with the Holy Spirit.



Likewise Peter also said those who repented and were baptized in water also could look for to receiving the Holy Spirit, in which he said “you shall” receive the promise of the Father.


Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call.” Acts 2:38-39


First comes repentance and the forgiveness of sins, then a person is eligible to receive the Holy Spirit.


This is the New Testament pattern.


Believe and there obey the Gospel to repent. Receive the forgiveness of sins, then comes baptism.


You are trying to lump together two different baptisms into one because you have been indoctrinated to believe this.




Water baptism is different that the baptism with the Spirit, which is called the promise of the Father.



Read this words of Jesus carefully, and choose to believe Jesus instead of your denominational dogma.



And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5

• John truly baptized with water,
• but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.

Cant you see the baptism with the Holy Spirit is a different baptism from water baptism?



JLB

I can see it.
Obey Peter's, and Jesus' command to be baptized in water and you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (Spirit baptism).

 

[JLB]

I do understand these are two different baptisms.
But without the baptism (in water) in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and a true turn from sin, (repentance from sin), there won't be a baptism of the Holy Ghost.

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
Acts 10:44-48



I do agree however with you in that we must repent to be saved, and the baptism with the Spirit comes after salvation.




JLB

 

[Truthfrees]

If I am believing a lie, why has that lie freed me from sinning?
Satan is the father of lies, so lies can't keep a man free from sin.
Lies can't produce a new creature.
Lies don't allow a man to walk in the light instead of in the darkness.
Lies don't allow a man to walk in the Spirit instead of in the "flesh".
Lies don't produce real hope.

sin consciousness sure binds people into hopelessness

God consciousness aka holiness aka walking in the Spirit is way better

imo people don't really know what it is and miss what you are saying

thanks for sharing the truth

 

[daninthelionsden]

If I sinned again, it would prove that I wasn't reborn of God's seed, that my "turn from" sin (repentance) was a lie, and that I wasn't a Christian to begin with.
I would need to become a Christian.
BTW, who is really the prisoner? The man who serves God or the man who serves sin?
Jesus did say the truth would free us from committing sin, (John 8:32-34), so I intend to remain free.

"Intend" is your key word. On this we all should agree. Where we disagree is that you claim to have absolutely no active/passive sin. Like I said, all I have to do is inform you of a massive sin taking place and the fact that you will do nothing about it will show you are in denial at best or a liar. The sin of omission is impossible to avoid.

 

[Hopeful]

I agree. Double mindedness is not from God.
Obviously the scripture I gave doesn’t mention double mindedness.
Please do not add to what the scripture says.


It is good that you grasp one thing and also not let go of the other; for the one who fears God comes forth with both of them. Ecclesiastes 7:18


Here is an example of grasping one thing and not letting go of another, because you fear God, and don’t want to make Him out to be a liar.


And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:4-5

• John truly baptized with water,
• but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.

We grasp the concept of water baptism while not letting go of the concept of baptism with the Spirit.






JLB

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.
Acts 10:44-48



I do agree however with you in that we must repent to be saved, and the baptism with the Spirit comes after salvation.
JLB

That POV usurps God's judgement on the last day.
You have already assigned salvation before judgement.