Lose Your Salvation in Two Easy Steps

[glorydaz]

John 6:37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

Amen, and we come to Him through obedience to the Word.

We come to Him by grace through the faith of Jesus Christ.
We come bearing no gifts of our own...we're saved by His gift to us.

 

[glorydaz]

Actually, what you should be talking about is what the verse says. If thy brother sin against YOU. If you have been wronged by someone then you confront them in love. This is not blanket permission to walk about the world confronting people about their sin. And it's always best to remember...let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

I have already pointed out the "against you" is not in the original Greek text. It was added by the translators.

That may your opinion, but I don't believe it.
There are the two eye-wittness that are brought...for a reason.

Some would like to take out those words so man will have an excuse to rebuke others of what they consider to be sins against God, but it isn't within the context of the message to do that.

 

[Cornelius]

John 6:37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.

Amen, and we come to Him through obedience to the Word.

We come to Him by grace through the faith of Jesus Christ.
We come bearing no gifts of our own...we're saved by His gift to us.

Yes, His grace allows us to be obedient. No obedience means we have not received His grace to obey Him.

In a case where we see that we cannot obey, we must ask the Lord what it is in our lives that is stopping His grace. One such thing that is common in Christianity is our tongue. When we slander (even in thought) we will not receive grace. We reap what we sow. If we do not give grace, we receive none too. Gossip for instance will stop grace in our lives.

 

[Cornelius]

Actually, what you should be talking about is what the verse says. If thy brother sin against YOU. If you have been wronged by someone then you confront them in love. This is not blanket permission to walk about the world confronting people about their sin. And it's always best to remember...let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

I have already pointed out the "against you" is not in the original Greek text. It was added by the translators.

That may your opinion, but I don't believe it.
There are the two eye-wittness that are brought...for a reason.

Some would like to take out those words so man will have an excuse to rebuke others of what they consider to be sins against God, but it isn't within the context of the message to do that.

I have no opinion on this. I am merely stating a fact that is easily researched. Its common knowledge that many words in many translations were added, because of the doctrinal glasses the translators were wearing at the time.

Anyway: This is something people can study for themselves

 

[Cornelius]

"if thy brother sin against thee." (Although the words "against thee" were not in the original text, they probably help convey Jesus' meaning.) (This is the opinion of this particular author, who do not see the difference it makes, because he is in fact explaining his point of view)

The emphasis is not on punishment, but on the rescue of a brother (particularly a fellow believer) whose sins put him in danger. This then becomes a practical guide to initiating the Father's love and concern for those who wander or are misled.

First, seek private correction and/or reconciliation with the offender (Matt. 18:15). In Matthew 18:15 many manuscripts have “and if your brother sins against you, go and reprove him in private.â€

http://www.meditationforchristians.com/sec3yra36.htm

There has been no little debate as to whether the words “against you†are part of the original manuscripts. The words “against me†in verse 21 may have led a scribe or copyist to personalize the matter in verse 15. Or, one could argue the omission was deliberate in order to generalize the passage. While some important manuscript tradition lacks the words “against you,†many feel there is good evidence for their originality. First, the words, “reprove him in private,†and second, the question of Peter in verse 21 about forgiving a brother who sins “against me†suggests their inclusion.

Whether the words “against you†were in the original text or not, Galatians 6:1 teaches that believers have a responsibility to confront sin in general in the life of other believers and not just when it is an offense against one’s person. It would seem, then that there is a two-fold application:

(1) When the problem involves one believer sinning against another, there are two problems that need to be taken care of: reconciliation and restoration (Matt. 5:23-24).

(2) When the problem involves a believer overcome in or by some sin, as was the case in Galatians 6:1, the need is restoration.

Matthew 18:16-17 should not be limited to the problem of one believer sinning against another in view of Galatians 6:1. So, the one offended or who recognizes the offense or sin is to go privately and try to rectify the problem.

http://bible.org/article/church-discipline

The numeric pattern shows that those words have no numeric pattern in them and as such must be deleted from the verse, to bring the Word back to its original meaning.

 

[glorydaz]

The question is restoration into fellowship with the assembly.

The words are in the Bible, the intent is obvious, even without them.

 

[Mysteryman]

Christians acting like Jews , who want to follow after the law of righteousness.

This shows a lack of faith. In fact, this is a total lack of faith. But they sought this not by faith, but by the works of the law. Romans 9:32 < And this is why they stumble upon the stumblingstone !

Faith entails the belief that we were saved by faith and not of our works.

Faith of salvation is a free gift. The calling of God is without repentance - Romans 11:29.

All were in unbelief, but God had mercy upon our salvation - Romans 11:32

Who has given to God that they might receive salvation ? - Romans 11:35

Romans 12:1 - " I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice , holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service"

If someone tells you that you can loose your salvation, they are putting a stublingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way - Romans 14:13

Take heed my brethren, that you not do such, that a brother might be persuaded that they can loose their salvation because they fell short of the glory of God !

 

[Mysteryman]

I would also like to say, that telling someone that they can loose their salvation is a fear tactic.

God did not give us the Spirit of fear, but of power, love and a sound mind.

We have "confidence" in God - I John 5:14 --- Hebrews 10;35 - "Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward"

Philippians 1:6 - "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ"

Faith and confidence in our Lord !

Bless - MM

 

[francisdesales]

So if you consider it a sin to eat meat that's been offered to idols, that means it's a sin for me, too?
Think about that, brother, and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Eating meat in of itself is not sinful. The act is sinful when we are commanded or bound by Godly authority NOT to eat it - and we do it anyways. It is the disobedience of a lawful order that makes it a sin. When the Body of Christ tells me to abstain from meat for a time, it is for my own spiritual welfare. My disobedience to that is an act of pride.

"He who hears you hears me (Jesus)".

It certainly can be an act of love. It can also be a result of someone who thinks he is the holder of all truth. I'm sure you have experienced that yourself. When someone rebukes you for "worshipping" statues, and you know that isn't what you're doing, the person rebuking you is being self-righteous and claiming you're sinning when you aren't.

When I am rebuked for such an act, it is the result of the rebuker's ignorance in not knowing what I am doing. It is an act of love when I inform him what I am doing and correct his error - as long as I can do so without attacking him. As I said in my last post, we are supposed to get the information and attempt to ascertain what is in the heart or what is behind the action of the person.

I don't think such "denominational infighting" is what Matthew 18 had in mind, anyway - the intent is when someone WITHIN the community is addressed, not someone from without.

I've certainly been accused of sinning by people who have no idea what my walk is...based on the fact that I stand on the promises of God. These people are judging without knowledge...they are not rebuking sin, they are merely showing their own carnal nature by assuming sin when none exists.

Well, I don't know if you have been accused of sinning, but perhaps being in error? Being ignorant is not necessarily being sinful, at least not willfully.

It can be difficult to separate the sinner from the sin, that is true.

Regards

 

[glorydaz]

So if you consider it a sin to eat meat that's been offered to idols, that means it's a sin for me, too?
Think about that, brother, and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Eating meat in of itself is not sinful. The act is sinful when we are commanded or bound by Godly authority NOT to eat it - and we do it anyways. It is the disobedience of a lawful order that makes it a sin. When the Body of Christ tells me to abstain from meat for a time, it is for my own spiritual welfare. My disobedience to that is an act of pride.

"He who hears you hears me (Jesus)".

It certainly can be an act of love. It can also be a result of someone who thinks he is the holder of all truth. I'm sure you have experienced that yourself. When someone rebukes you for "worshipping" statues, and you know that isn't what you're doing, the person rebuking you is being self-righteous and claiming you're sinning when you aren't.

When I am rebuked for such an act, it is the result of the rebuker's ignorance in not knowing what I am doing. It is an act of love when I inform him what I am doing and correct his error - as long as I can do so without attacking him. As I said in my last post, we are supposed to get the information and attempt to ascertain what is in the heart or what is behind the action of the person.

I don't think such "denominational infighting" is what Matthew 18 had in mind, anyway - the intent is when someone WITHIN the community is addressed, not someone from without.

I've certainly been accused of sinning by people who have no idea what my walk is...based on the fact that I stand on the promises of God. These people are judging without knowledge...they are not rebuking sin, they are merely showing their own carnal nature by assuming sin when none exists.

Well, I don't know if you have been accused of sinning, but perhaps being in error? Being ignorant is not necessarily being sinful, at least not willfully.

It can be difficult to separate the sinner from the sin, that is true.

Regards

I see...the person is in error when they rebuke you, but they're in error when you rebuke them. It's always the other person's ignorance. That certainly seems to fit the bill with most posting that takes place on this thread.

I would submit that's it's the Holy Spirit that convicts people of their sins, and it's the Holy Spirit that enlightens our understanding. So what we see is people taking the role of the Holy Spirit into their own hands and judging others based on their own understanding. Which, of course, is why we're to use the Word of God...let it do the convicting and enlightening instead of insisting on our personal opinions in the matter.

 

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