Losing ones salvation

[Groovy]

When I said this?

By replying "yes" to Blaine's question, "Do you believe being baptized at birth makes you saved?",
you implied that you believe faith is superfluous, since babies are too young to be able to have faith.
Perhaps you want to reconsider or clarify your "yes"?

 

[OrthodoxBeliever]

By replying "yes" to Blaine's question, "Do you believe being baptized at birth makes you saved?",
you implied that you believe faith is superfluous, since babies are too young to be able to have faith.
Perhaps you want to reconsider or clarify your "yes"?

I will not reconsider nor clarify nothing. Jews circumcise babies according to God's command. Jesus was circumcised when he was baby, is he was able to think if he want this when he was baby? So, also the Orthodox are commanded by God to baptize babies.

 

[Fastfredy0]

So my question is this where in scripture does it state one can lose it and are there any examples of it in scripture?

Premise 1: It is God that chooses (elects, predetermines, appoints, calls) individuals to salvation
Premise 2: Men are not capable of choosing God for salvation
Premise 3: God doesn't change His mind
Conclusion: You can't lose your salvation because it was predetermined by God.

Proof of Premise 1:

1. Psalm 65:4 Blessed is the one whom You choose and bring near to dwell in Your courts. We will be filled with the goodness of Your house, Your holy temple.
2. Psalm 139:16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were appointed for me (predestination), When as yet there was not one of them [even taking shape].
3. Matthew 11:21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. [God determined their choice]
4. Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth [I openly and joyfully acknowledge Your great wisdom], that You have hidden these things [these spiritual truths] from the wise and intelligent and revealed them to infants [to new believers, to those seeking God’s will and purpose].
5. Matthew 11:27 All things have been entrusted and delivered to Me by My Father; and no one fully knows and accurately understands the Son except the Father, and no one fully knows and accurately understands the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son deliberately wills to make Him known. [the will of the Son determines who knows God]
6. Matthew 13:11 Jesus replied to them, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.
7. Matthew 22:14 For many are called (invited, summoned), but few are chosen.”
8. Luke 12:32 "Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has chosen gladly to give you the kingdom. do the sheep (men) chose the shepherd (Christ)?
9. John 6:37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. [the action is the Father giving to the Son; believers are not involved in the transaction save their coming is the result of the Father’s action]
10. John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all.
11. John 17:2; 6, 11, 12, 24 Seven times Jesus speaks of believers as given to Him by the Father.
12. Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed (decided on beforehand; designated) for eternal life believed.
13. Romans 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion [nations cannot “will” or “exert”], but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “I raised you up for this very purpose, to display My power in [dealing with] you, and so that My name would be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then, He has mercy on whom He wills (chooses), and He hardens [the heart of] whom He wills.
14. Who does God elect and why: 1 Corinthians 1:26 Brothers, think of what you were when you were called [effectual call]. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things--and the things that are not--to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him.
15. Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
    Ephesians 1:5 He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of His glorious grace and favor
16. I could list many more

Proof of Premise 2:

1. Romans 3:11 No one understands [divine things]; no one seeks for God. [unless the Holy Spirit leads them to Christ] 12 All have turned aside; together they have gone wrong and have become unprofitable and worthless; no one does right, not even one!
2. Romans 8:7 the mind of the flesh [with its sinful pursuits] is actively hostile to God. It does not submit itself to God’s law, since it cannot, 8 those who are in the flesh cannot please God [this implies that “faith” must come from God; otherwise, we would have a contradiction for “faith” pleases God and therefore cannot come from the unregenerate man.]
3. 1 Corinthians 2:14 The natural [unregenerate] person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God [regeneration comes from the Spirit of God], for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually [the Holy Spirit] discerned.
4. Job 14:4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? There is not one.
5. Romans 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot perform it.
6. Romans 8:7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. – faith is pleasing to God and part of God’s law, thus since of the flesh cannot please God, they cannot generate faith of themselves
7. 1 Corinthians 2:14 The natural [unbeliever] person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
8. I could list many more

I can go on and on like, if men chose God then they have reason to boast which contradicts scripture ... or ... if men chose God then they are saved by the WORK which contradicts scripture ... on and on and on I could go.

“Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee (believed his FREE WILL determined his salvation) and the other a tax collector (who believed God alone saved him). The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. ‘I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’ But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’ I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted” (Luke 18:10-14).

 

[Groovy]

When I judge your laughable interpretation and confusion that the kingdom of God has anything to do with politics I am indeed making a personal choice based on my interpretation of the Bible.
But when I say that Nobody but God knows where anyone is going, that’s the part where I say “ I don’t know”.
I say that because knowing whether one is going to be with God or not is essentially the Meaning of Life question.
And I can’t pretend to know The Meaning of Life question where people are going to spend eternity.
This is why no one can know who is right or wrong in this question.
But when you confuse politics with God, one can make an opinion because this is here and now and we live in the here and now.

When you confuse spiritual messages with material messages you become a fool and I already told you before that the equivalent of Heaven on Earth is a socialist system but since we are not Gods to convert a loaf of fishes into food and resources for billions of people, this becomes an impossible task in the material world but it is possible in the spiritual world which is our heart and minds.

This is why we in the church gain strength, hope and motivation when we know Christ and follow His teachings to help us navigate the fallen world which is not the kingdom of God. This is where the salt applies, as ambassadors of Christ and its not about having a literal kingdom here where death sickness and disease is gone. Don’t confuse these things.
It makes life here more than bearable with Christ who shared in our suffering and defeated death. It makes it joyful. Almost like paradise.

This point of difference is also worth noting between the Orthodox Church and the Protestants. We focus more on the resurrection whereas you focus more on the shedding of blood because you want to link that to salvation.
Whereas we in the east focus on resurrection because this act gives us hope to continue here and now in the physical world which is Not The Kingdom of God where you want to mix your politics.

You also have to understand another thing.
Some people are not meant to teach. They don’t have the gift.
You are one of them. You take a good thing and ruin it by the way you express yourself.
It’s like taking a good wine and throwing vinegar in it.
But it is what it is, this is how the world goes.an
We have another coffee for now and laugh again and thank Christ for this moment.

I am glad you admit that choosing is judging, and when you choose to say "nobody but God knows where a person is going" that choice is also a judgment--one that I agree with. Why? Because I believe God reveals His requirement for salvation via creation and Scripture. However, our understanding is fallible, which is why we cannot know with certainty as God does. How to apply GW to politics is also a matter of fallible opinion that makes confusion possible and certainty impossible, which is why we should do our best to define what it means to know or be in Christ--as a creed attempts to do.

Yes, as Christians or those in the Kingdom cooperate with the teachings of Jesus, the world is made better or more like paradise by such spiritual salt and enlightenment. We should neither divorce this relationship nor confuse it with ultimate heaven. Trying to make the here and now better does not obviate the need for resurrection.

I do not claim to teach, but rather to be a learner of GW, and I share what I have learned in hope that it will serve
to boost others along the way. I, you and many others lack the gift of teaching, but we should strive to be good stewards of whatever gifts we have and not "ruin" anything, to be sure.

 

[Groovy]

I will not reconsider nor clarify nothing. Jews circumcise babies according to God's command. Jesus was circumcised when he was baby, is he was able to think if he want this when he was baby? So, also the Orthodox are commanded by God to baptize babies.

Yes, but Jesus never commanded circumcision or taught that it was salvific, and Paul taught that physical circumcision was not salvific, but rather the faith it should signify.
Do the Orthodox not believe both what Jesus did not teach and what Paul did teach?

 

[Groovy]

Premise 1: It is God that chooses (elects, predetermines, appoints, calls) individuals to salvation
Premise 2: Men are not capable of choosing God for salvation
Premise 3: God doesn't change His mind
Conclusion: You can't lose your salvation because it was predetermined by God.

Proof of Premise 1:

1. Psalm 65:4 Blessed is the one whom You choose and bring near to dwell in Your courts. We will be filled with the goodness of Your house, Your holy temple.
2. Psalm 139:16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were appointed for me (predestination), When as yet there was not one of them [even taking shape].
3. Matthew 11:21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. [God determined their choice]
4. Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth [I openly and joyfully acknowledge Your great wisdom], that You have hidden these things [these spiritual truths] from the wise and intelligent and revealed them to infants [to new believers, to those seeking God’s will and purpose].
5. Matthew 11:27 All things have been entrusted and delivered to Me by My Father; and no one fully knows and accurately understands the Son except the Father, and no one fully knows and accurately understands the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son deliberately wills to make Him known. [the will of the Son determines who knows God]
6. Matthew 13:11 Jesus replied to them, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.
7. Matthew 22:14 For many are called (invited, summoned), but few are chosen.”
8. Luke 12:32 "Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has chosen gladly to give you the kingdom. do the sheep (men) chose the shepherd (Christ)?
9. John 6:37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. [the action is the Father giving to the Son; believers are not involved in the transaction save their coming is the result of the Father’s action]
10. John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all.
11. John 17:2; 6, 11, 12, 24 Seven times Jesus speaks of believers as given to Him by the Father.
12. Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed (decided on beforehand; designated) for eternal life believed.
13. Romans 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion [nations cannot “will” or “exert”], but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “I raised you up for this very purpose, to display My power in [dealing with] you, and so that My name would be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then, He has mercy on whom He wills (chooses), and He hardens [the heart of] whom He wills.
14. Who does God elect and why: 1 Corinthians 1:26 Brothers, think of what you were when you were called [effectual call]. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things--and the things that are not--to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him.
15. Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
    Ephesians 1:5 He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of His glorious grace and favor
16. I could list many more

Proof of Premise 2:

1. Romans 3:11 No one understands [divine things]; no one seeks for God. [unless the Holy Spirit leads them to Christ] 12 All have turned aside; together they have gone wrong and have become unprofitable and worthless; no one does right, not even one!
2. Romans 8:7 the mind of the flesh [with its sinful pursuits] is actively hostile to God. It does not submit itself to God’s law, since it cannot, 8 those who are in the flesh cannot please God [this implies that “faith” must come from God; otherwise, we would have a contradiction for “faith” pleases God and therefore cannot come from the unregenerate man.]
3. 1 Corinthians 2:14 The natural [unregenerate] person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God [regeneration comes from the Spirit of God], for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually [the Holy Spirit] discerned.
4. Job 14:4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? There is not one.
5. Romans 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot perform it.
6. Romans 8:7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. – faith is pleasing to God and part of God’s law, thus since of the flesh cannot please God, they cannot generate faith of themselves
7. 1 Corinthians 2:14 The natural [unbeliever] person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
8. I could list many more

I can go on and on like, if men chose God then they have reason to boast which contradicts scripture ... or ... if men chose God then they are saved by the WORK which contradicts scripture ... on and on and on I could go.

“Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee (believed his FREE WILL determined his salvation) and the other a tax collector (who believed God alone saved him). The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. ‘I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’ But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’ I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted” (Luke 18:10-14).

Re "I could list many more": Perhaps, and you could list many Scriptures that contradict your interpretation, so then we could discuss how to harmonize it all. Are you interested/willing to do so?

 

[Blain DeCastro]

Yes.

Well I am afraid it doesn't, what makes one saved is about the relationship they have with God. and being baptized by your own willingness to surrender to Christ.

 

[Blain DeCastro]

Premise 1: It is God that chooses (elects, predetermines, appoints, calls) individuals to salvation
Premise 2: Men are not capable of choosing God for salvation
Premise 3: God doesn't change His mind
Conclusion: You can't lose your salvation because it was predetermined by God.

Proof of Premise 1:

1. Psalm 65:4 Blessed is the one whom You choose and bring near to dwell in Your courts. We will be filled with the goodness of Your house, Your holy temple.
2. Psalm 139:16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were appointed for me (predestination), When as yet there was not one of them [even taking shape].
3. Matthew 11:21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. [God determined their choice]
4. Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus said, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth [I openly and joyfully acknowledge Your great wisdom], that You have hidden these things [these spiritual truths] from the wise and intelligent and revealed them to infants [to new believers, to those seeking God’s will and purpose].
5. Matthew 11:27 All things have been entrusted and delivered to Me by My Father; and no one fully knows and accurately understands the Son except the Father, and no one fully knows and accurately understands the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son deliberately wills to make Him known. [the will of the Son determines who knows God]
6. Matthew 13:11 Jesus replied to them, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.
7. Matthew 22:14 For many are called (invited, summoned), but few are chosen.”
8. Luke 12:32 "Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has chosen gladly to give you the kingdom. do the sheep (men) chose the shepherd (Christ)?
9. John 6:37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. [the action is the Father giving to the Son; believers are not involved in the transaction save their coming is the result of the Father’s action]
10. John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all.
11. John 17:2; 6, 11, 12, 24 Seven times Jesus speaks of believers as given to Him by the Father.
12. Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed (decided on beforehand; designated) for eternal life believed.
13. Romans 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion [nations cannot “will” or “exert”], but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “I raised you up for this very purpose, to display My power in [dealing with] you, and so that My name would be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then, He has mercy on whom He wills (chooses), and He hardens [the heart of] whom He wills.
14. Who does God elect and why: 1 Corinthians 1:26 Brothers, think of what you were when you were called [effectual call]. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. 28 He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things--and the things that are not--to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him.
15. Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
    Ephesians 1:5 He predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of His glorious grace and favor
16. I could list many more

Proof of Premise 2:

1. Romans 3:11 No one understands [divine things]; no one seeks for God. [unless the Holy Spirit leads them to Christ] 12 All have turned aside; together they have gone wrong and have become unprofitable and worthless; no one does right, not even one!
2. Romans 8:7 the mind of the flesh [with its sinful pursuits] is actively hostile to God. It does not submit itself to God’s law, since it cannot, 8 those who are in the flesh cannot please God [this implies that “faith” must come from God; otherwise, we would have a contradiction for “faith” pleases God and therefore cannot come from the unregenerate man.]
3. 1 Corinthians 2:14 The natural [unregenerate] person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God [regeneration comes from the Spirit of God], for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually [the Holy Spirit] discerned.
4. Job 14:4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? There is not one.
5. Romans 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot perform it.
6. Romans 8:7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. – faith is pleasing to God and part of God’s law, thus since of the flesh cannot please God, they cannot generate faith of themselves
7. 1 Corinthians 2:14 The natural [unbeliever] person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
8. I could list many more

I can go on and on like, if men chose God then they have reason to boast which contradicts scripture ... or ... if men chose God then they are saved by the WORK which contradicts scripture ... on and on and on I could go.

“Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee (believed his FREE WILL determined his salvation) and the other a tax collector (who believed God alone saved him). The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. ‘I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’ But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to lift up his eyes to heaven, but was beating his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’ I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted” (Luke 18:10-14).

I apologize but I am unable to read super long posts so I was not able to read everything you gave but I do think you make a good case from what I did read, my only thing is predestination would mean that you believe God also has ordained some to everylasting hell which would contradict his nature.

So am I to understand that because we did not choose God we cannot lose our salvation but also because we didi not choose God then that means some cannot be saved?

 

[OrthodoxBeliever]

Yes, but Jesus never commanded circumcision or taught that it was salvific, and Paul taught that physical circumcision was not salvific, but rather the faith it should signify.
Do the Orthodox not believe both what Jesus did not teach and what Paul did teach?

When the baptized person grow, he can deny the baptism or accept it, he can keep it or reject it.

 

[Blain DeCastro]

When the baptized person grow, he can deny the baptism or accept it, he can keep it or reject it.

Except that if baptism was enough to save someone Jesus would not have had to die on the cross for our sins

 

[OrthodoxBeliever]

Except that if baptism was enough to save someone Jesus would not have had to die on the cross for our sins

By baptism one becomes Christian and his sins are forgiven, this is when Jesus's act apply for them and Jesus as a whole. But I must said it wrongly, it does not save you. Satan can always draw anyone to hell, even in the afterlife in the Aerial Toll Houses. So they must have life in the church to keep themselves from sins and Satan. Which is the same thing, he is the source of evil and the salvation itself is to be saved from Satan.

 

[Eli1+]

I am glad you admit that choosing is judging, and when you choose to say "nobody but God knows where a person is going" that choice is also a judgment--one that I agree with. Why? Because I believe God reveals His requirement for salvation via creation and Scripture. However, our understanding is fallible, which is why we cannot know with certainty as God does. How to apply GW to politics is also a matter of fallible opinion that makes confusion possible and certainty impossible, which is why we should do our best to define what it means to know or be in Christ--as a creed attempts to do.

Yes, as Christians or those in the Kingdom cooperate with the teachings of Jesus, the world is made better or more like paradise by such spiritual salt and enlightenment. We should neither divorce this relationship nor confuse it with ultimate heaven. Trying to make the here and now better does not obviate the need for resurrection.

I do not claim to teach, but rather to be a learner of GW, and I share what I have learned in hope that it will serve
to boost others along the way. I, you and many others lack the gift of teaching, but we should strive to be good stewards of whatever gifts we have and not "ruin" anything, to be sure.

This is a better message from you.
In fact, one of the best messages i've seen from you so far.
Cheers.

 

[Blain DeCastro]

By baptism one becomes Christian and his sins are forgiven, this is when Jesus's act apply for them and Jesus as a whole. But I must said it wrongly, it does not save you. Satan can always draw anyone to hell, even in the afterlife in the Aerial Toll Houses. So they must have life in the church to keep themselves from sins and Satan. Which is the same thing, he is the source of evil and the salvation itself is to be saved from Satan.

And how does one have life in the church in order to keep themselves saved from satan?

 

[OrthodoxBeliever]

And how does one have life in the church in order to keep themselves saved from satan?

Going every Sunday to liturgy in Orthodox temple (church), also on the days that it have service, for example specific saint days. Fast half year, as Orthodox fast much, which is to say keeping all the fast periods, which is half year nonstop if seen as a whole. Going also to Orthodox Church when you can to pray and fire a candle. Reading Bible, reading Orthodox books. Having prayer rule to pray with specific prayers from your Orthodox Prayer Book at least morning and evening. Praying nonstop with Jesus's prayer and other prayers, or at least when you can. Keeping what the saints said in books. Keeping the whole Bible, as in NT is said about the OT books. Keeping the specific teachings of Jesus and NT. Keeping what the Orthodox church teaches. Keeping what your priest telling you. Confessing your sins to your priest, as Jesus gave authority to forgive sins to the apostles, as you can read in Bible. Going for Holy Communion regularly. Asking God for Holy Spirit, for angel guide and for help each time you need it. Trying to avoid sin and always keep the ten commandments. Not denying the law of God that Orthodox church accept as core of the faith. Having icons at home that you honor. Knowing that your priest is always right and knows what is best for you. Confessing your sins also directly to God. Having faith and works. Being baptized and chrismated into the Orthodox faith. Being a doer of the word not only a listener, as scripture teaches. Having Bible in home and other Orthodox books and following everything you read. Being humble and always do the will of God. Working toward your salvation (entering Heaven), with all your strength. Loving God, loving neighbor and as Jesus said loving your enemy. Loving the brothers in faith as Jesus said love one another. Praying for all Orthodox Christians, as in our Prayer Books there is prayers only for the Orthodox Christians. My priest said that all non Orthodox are false witness. He not accept other churches, because to us it is obvious that Jesus created only the Orthodox church. There is evidence of miracles within our church, so it is true church, but I will not discuss other churches, if there is "other churches".

 

[Groovy]

When the baptized person grow, he can deny the baptism or accept it, he can keep it or reject it.

Yes, and that decision is due to having moral free will. Acceptance = saving faith, and rejection = disbelief.
Thus, water baptism is not salvific, but rather the faith it should signify--and which it does not signify until
the baby attains the age of God-consciousness and moral accountability, which is why Baptists began as anabaptists back in the 1500s after they rejected Roman Catholicism, which Orthodoxy did not reject regarding infant baptism.

After Trajan, the RE declined as non-Christian (pagan or heathen) Germanic tribes (Goths, Franks, Alemanni, Saxons, Thuringians, etc.) gained strength. Germanic and Norse religion was polytheistic, with Odin as chief god. Its earliest extant source document is the Eddas (probably composed about 850). During the reign of Diocletian, the RE was divided east and west in 285, until it was reunited by Constantine in 308, who ended the persecution of Christians with an edict in 313. He moved the capitol to Constantinople in 331. During his reign a council in Nicaea in 325 adopted the Nicene Creed.

Following the Second Ecumenical Council in Constantinople in 381, the Nicene Creed was further supplemented with the following:

"And [we believe] in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, Who proceeds from the Father;
who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.
In one Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins.
I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen."

In 386, Augustine decided to convert to Catholic Christianity, returning from Milan to Carthage before settling in Hippo and writing prolifically until his death in 430 what became the dominant RC theology. Especially significant were his doctrines regarding original sin, predestination, infant baptism and papal supremacy. RC theology was dominant in Christendom through the Middle Ages until the Protestant Reformation. The Christological controversy continued with Nestorius opposed to calling Mary the “mother of God” because it denied Jesus’ humanity, prompting Cyril of Alexandria to convene the Council of Ephesus in 431.

After the death of Theodosius I in 395, the RE was redivided permanently, and the western part weakened as Rome was sacked by Visigoths from Dacia (Romania) in 410 (before they established a kingdom in Gaul and Spain in 419), then in 455 by Vandals from the Baltic area (who had migrated across Europe to Spain and then across the straits of Gibraltar and eastward along the African coast as far as Sicily by 429).

These migrations may have been motivated by the Huns, who migrated from Mongolia across the Volga in 372, defeating the Ostrogoths in the Ukraine and travelling as far as Gaul before attacking Italy in 452. Their religion may have been Tengriism, about which little is known until the time of the Mongols, but it revered the god of the sky or heaven. The Roman part of the empire ended in 476, when Italy was captured by Germans led by Odoacer.

In 715, the Muslim Empire extended from the Pyrenees to China, and in 717 tax exemption was granted to all believers. However, Charles Martel of France decisively defeated them in 732, which halted the Islamic advance from the direction of Spain. At this time Boniface was working to eliminate heathenism northeast of the Rhine River, and the BE was threatened by Bulgarians. In 750, the Abbasids won the Muslim Caliphate and defeated China in the Battle of Samarkind in 751, where the Arabs learned how to make paper. Pepin of France made Lombardy a vassal state and granted land (the Papal State) to the popes. In 763, the Caliphate capitol was moved to Baghdad, where Indian numerals became used.

In 771, Charlemagne inherited the Frankish kingdom and annexed Saxony, Lombardy and Bavaria before being crowned Holy Roman Emperor (HRE, also “Empire”) in 800, when Pope Leo III separated RC from the BE (again, see 484). By 1000, RC had reached Greenland, and Judaism (see this Summary before Christ) was strongest in Spain. The Mayan civilization was at its height, and China invented gunpowder. The Danes (see 826) deposed the English king in 1013, and they conquered Norway in 1028. The Caliphate in Cordoba was abolished in 1031, and the Seljuk Turks gained strength in Turkestan in 1042. In 1054, the schism between RC and what became Eastern Orthodoxy, due mainly to its rejection of the primacy of the Pope, became permanent (“Great”).

[Excerpts from our website lessons on the History of Beliefs: <truthseekersfellowship.com>

 

[Blain DeCastro]

Going every Sunday to liturgy in Orthodox temple (church), also on the days that it have service, for example specific saint days. Fast half year, as Orthodox fast much, which is to say keeping all the fast periods, which is half year nonstop if seen as a whole. Going also to Orthodox Church when you can to pray and fire a candle. Reading Bible, reading Orthodox books. Having prayer rule to pray with specific prayers from your Orthodox Prayer Book at least morning and evening. Praying nonstop with Jesus's prayer and other prayers, or at least when you can. Keeping what the saints said in books. Keeping the whole Bible, as in NT is said about the OT books. Keeping the specific teachings of Jesus and NT. Keeping what the Orthodox church teaches. Keeping what your priest telling you. Confessing your sins to your priest, as Jesus gave authority to forgive sins to the apostles, as you can read in Bible. Going for Holy Communion regularly. Asking God for Holy Spirit, for angel guide and for help each time you need it. Trying to avoid sin and always keep the ten commandments. Not denying the law of God that Orthodox church accept as core of the faith. Having icons at home that you honor. Knowing that your priest is always right and knows what is best for you. Confessing your sins also directly to God. Having faith and works. Being baptized and chrismated into the Orthodox faith. Being a doer of the word not only a listener, as scripture teaches. Having Bible in home and other Orthodox books and following everything you read. Being humble and always do the will of God. Working toward your salvation (entering Heaven), with all your strength. Loving God, loving neighbor and as Jesus said loving your enemy. Loving the brothers in faith as Jesus said love one another. Praying for all Orthodox Christians, as in our Prayer Books there is prayers only for the Orthodox Christians. My priest said that all non Orthodox are false witness. He not accept other churches, because to us it is obvious that Jesus created only the Orthodox church. There is evidence of miracles within our church, so it is true church, but I will not discuss other churches, if there is "other churches".

All that just to keep your salvation? This seems more like religious practice rather than an actual relationship with our Lord.
Every religion has and does all of these things you mentioned but they are not saved and why is that? Because they do not know him and because they do not have an actual relationship with him so what makes Christianity so different from other religions? Like if you were to witness to another person what would you say to them that would convince them yours is different from other religions?

 

[OrthodoxBeliever]

All that just to keep your salvation? This seems more like religious practice rather than an actual relationship with our Lord.
Every religion has and does all of these things you mentioned but they are not saved and why is that? Because they do not know him and because they do not have an actual relationship with him so what makes Christianity so different from other religions? Like if you were to witness to another person what would you say to them that would convince them yours is different from other religions?

I don't think that other religions are false, I think that every religion can save the person that believes in it.

 

[Groovy]

This is a better message from you.
In fact, one of the best messages i've seen from you so far.
Cheers.

As a truthseeker I welcome/invite constructive suggestions, so thanks for the feedback.

 

[Groovy]

Going every Sunday to liturgy in Orthodox temple (church), also on the days that it have service, for example specific saint days. Fast half year, as Orthodox fast much, which is to say keeping all the fast periods, which is half year nonstop if seen as a whole. Going also to Orthodox Church when you can to pray and fire a candle. Reading Bible, reading Orthodox books. Having prayer rule to pray with specific prayers from your Orthodox Prayer Book at least morning and evening. Praying nonstop with Jesus's prayer and other prayers, or at least when you can. Keeping what the saints said in books. Keeping the whole Bible, as in NT is said about the OT books. Keeping the specific teachings of Jesus and NT. Keeping what the Orthodox church teaches. Keeping what your priest telling you. Confessing your sins to your priest, as Jesus gave authority to forgive sins to the apostles, as you can read in Bible. Going for Holy Communion regularly. Asking God for Holy Spirit, for angel guide and for help each time you need it. Trying to avoid sin and always keep the ten commandments. Not denying the law of God that Orthodox church accept as core of the faith. Having icons at home that you honor. Knowing that your priest is always right and knows what is best for you. Confessing your sins also directly to God. Having faith and works. Being baptized and chrismated into the Orthodox faith. Being a doer of the word not only a listener, as scripture teaches. Having Bible in home and other Orthodox books and following everything you read. Being humble and always do the will of God. Working toward your salvation (entering Heaven), with all your strength. Loving God, loving neighbor and as Jesus said loving your enemy. Loving the brothers in faith as Jesus said love one another. Praying for all Orthodox Christians, as in our Prayer Books there is prayers only for the Orthodox Christians. My priest said that all non Orthodox are false witness. He not accept other churches, because to us it is obvious that Jesus created only the Orthodox church. There is evidence of miracles within our church, so it is true church, but I will not discuss other churches, if there is "other churches".

Yes, there is only one orthodox church, which is why I used that term in my suggestion for a creed,
but the mark of a heretical cult is claiming to be the only true church, which is what Roman Catholicism did during the Inquisition and what Joseph Smith claimed regarding the Mormons. The obedience demanded by such cults perverts the true Gospel, so what Paul said in Galatians applies.

However, there are many Catholics who no longer claim to be the only Christians, and I hope you will be able
to find an Orthodox priest who is truly orthodox and will teach the Gospel along these lines:

The kerygma/GRFS should be every Christian’s creed, and only belief in this crucial truth should be viewed as a test for orthodoxy or heresy. As Paul wrote in Romans 10:9, “If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” Conversely, judgments concerning a person’s spiritual orientation or ultimate destiny should not be made on the basis of didachaic or secondary doctrines. (If any judgment is made, it should begin with a self-examination per Matt. 7:1&5, 2Cor. 13:5-8).

A major reason many Christians throughout history have not manifested the love and unity of God’s Spirit (Eph. 4:3) as well as they should is because of failure to realize this truth. If they did, it would free them to speak honestly and fellowship without becoming unduly upset about relatively minor issues. They would receive God’s blessing as peacemakers, who draw inclusive circles around people based on the kerygma rather than denominational lines between them due to didachaic differences. Jesus prayed for spiritual unity (cf. John 17:20-23, “May they be one…”). Thus, unity regarding the Gospel is more important than accuracy regarding doctrinal details.

The normative way of stating the kerygma/GRFS in the NT is “Accept Christ Jesus as Lord” (as in 2Cor. 4:5 & Col. 2:6). The main points of Christian orthodoxy implicit in this statement can be explained or elaborated as follows:

1. There is a/one all-loving and just Lord or God (Deut. 6:4, John 3:16, 2Thes. 1:6), who is both able (2Tim. 1:12) and willing (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11) to provide all morally accountable human beings salvation or heaven—a wonderful life full of love, joy and peace forever.
2. Human beings are selfish or sinful (Rom. 3:23, 2Tim. 3:2-4, Col. 3:5), miserable (Gal. 5:19-21), and hopeless (Eph. 2:12) or hell-bound at the judgment (Matt. 23:33 & 25:46) when they reject God’s salvation (John 3:18, Rom. 2:5-11).
3. Jesus is God’s Messiah/Christ and incarnate Son, the way that God has chosen (John 3:16, Acts 16:30-31, Phil. 2:9-11) of providing salvation by means of his atoning death on the cross for the payment of the penalty for the sins of humanity (Rom. 3:22-25 & 5:9-11), followed by his resurrection to reign in heaven (1Cor. 15:14-28).
4. Thus, every person who hears the NT Gospel needs to repent and accept God’s grace or justification in Jesus as Christ/Messiah the Lord or Supreme Commander (Luke 2:11, John 14:6, Acts 16:31), which means trying to obey His commandment to love one another (Matt. 22:37-40, John 13:35, Rom. 13:9)—forever (Matt. 10:22, Psa. 113:2).
5. Then God’s Holy Spirit will establish a saving relationship with those who freely accept/love Him (Rev. 3:20) that will eventually achieve heaven after Christ returns when by means of persevering in learning Truth/God’s Word/sanctification everyone cooperates fully with His will (John 14:6, 17&26, Rom. 8:6-17, Gal. 6:7-9, Eph. 1:13-14, Heb. 10:36, 12:1, Jam. 1:2-4).

Although perfection is not achieved in this life, the necessity of learning the didache in order to strive for perfection indicates the need for perseverance or to keep on learning and growing spiritually until we die physically (PHP 3:12-14). Thus, although learning any specific part of the didache is not GRFS, a person who does not “hunger and thirst for righteousness” (MT 5:6) or want to learn “every word that comes from the mouth of God” (MT 4:4) fails the self-examination Paul commanded and Jesus implied (mentioned previously). Perseverance is didachaic fruit/faithfulness (GL 5:22) following (EPH 2:8-10) and building on kerygmatic faith (1CR 3:10-15). In EPH 2:10, “walk” can be translated as “walking with God”, which is an apt (KJV) way of indicating working grace that enables saved sinners (those who exercised seeking grace to choose saving grace) to cooperate with the HS by reflecting divine love variously (RM 5:5-8 & 12:6-8, GL 5:22-23, & 1CR 12:4-11).

If we truly believe in Jesus as Christ, the One who represents God the Father, then we will also accept Him as Lord (LK 2:11) or God the Son (MT 16:16) or God in the human dimension (CL 2:9). When we truly accept Jesus as Lord, we will want to please Him by doing His will (MT 7:21, EPH 5:8-10). Learning the manifold teachings or doctrines describing God’s moral will takes a lifetime. Thus, the need for perseverance/loyalty/remaining faithful, which is as easy or simple as an act of will. Remain faithful until the end.

Paul taught the importance of continuing to learn God’s Word (LGW) in 2TM 3:14-17, saying “Continue in what you have learned and have been convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

 

[Blain DeCastro]

I don't think that other religions are false, I think that every religion can save the person that believes in it.

Well I am sorry to say this is false only Jesus Christ can save every other religion will lead one to eternal suffering because every other religion is false.

You can believe any religion but one and only one gives life and this will be evident in the times to come

Believe me only Jesus Christ can save us no amount of religion will be able to save ones soul. You know I have actually met God himself a few times and one thing I asked him was what makes you so different from all other God's and his response? Love