Love your enemy

[gingercat]

And ginger, if what you offer were even close to the truth, then how could you possibly validate the day that Christ will return and destroy, (through war), His enemies? Obviously you have misinterpreted the Word to suit your own agenda. There is a time for ALL things and this includes fighting and killing to protect that which matters most.

This is Jesus' job and not ours. It is another lame excuse.

 

[gingercat]

On the other hand, I see no conceputal distinction between the idea of a police force and a military. I know some people who are opposed to the idea of a military, yet are happy with the existence of armed police. This strikes me as inconsistent.

On the whole, if God wants individuals to embrace non-violence, I think He also wants the same of nations.

You are so right! I don't believe in weapons even for self protection. I would not teach my kids to join police force or military. Jesus says no more eye for eye and tooth for tooth. He meant it. If I or my family or anyone is endanger of being harmed, of course we should do everything to protect them, but we dont have to use weapon to do it. We have to trust God to potect what ever it has to be done as His follower wihout relying on weapon.

 

[gingercat]

Does it satisfy Jesus teaching to reserve violent action only for times when your best intelligence and creativity fails to find any other means of solving the emergency situation?

end of quote:


That's why we have faith. We have to break the secular mentality as Christians.

When the time comes to protect yourself or anyone else, we will be able to do it with His help without relying on the weapon. More faith more help from Him. :angel:

 

[gingercat]

So what we do if others are not willing to embrace pacificism? From a pragmatic perspective, we can be assured that only a tiny fraction of any society will be truly pacifist, so we know every country will have a military.

end of quote;

I don't believe it is Jesus' will to join the military so even the government has military my family will not join. I guess if they draft my family, we will be in jail becasue we will not cooperate killing their enemy.

 

[Duder]

.

Does it satisfy Jesus teaching to reserve violent action only for times when your best intelligence and creativity fails to find any other means of solving the emergency situation?

end of quote:


That's why we have faith. We have to break the secular mentality as Christians.

When the time comes to protect yourself or anyone else, we will be able to do it with His help without relying on the weapon. More faith more help from Him. :angel:

Hello, Gingercat -

I have the highest regard and respect for that point of view. I have not wholly embraced it. Perhaps that is a failure of faith on my part.

.

 

[Imagican]

And I offer that not a single person present is perfect. There are many many other more important changes that are needed to live up to the standard that Christ set. We must start somewhere and then work our way into what He is. And the first step is learning WHO Christ is and developing a relationship with Him personally instead of simply 'reading' about Him. Only at this point will we be able to begin to emulate Him.

Slaves were told to be happy and satisfied with the position in which they find themselves. I doubt that there are many here among us that would agree that slavery is a 'good' thing. Does that mean that we resist the will of God by renouncing slavery? I believe that our love that we show towards our brothers and sisters by refusing to take part in slavery ENFORCES the love that we should share instead of going against ANYTHING, including God's Word. If He chooses to punish people through the use of slavery, so be it, but ours is to love and treat our brothers as we would have them treat us. This could certainly be used against my argument, but there are certainly those out there that make a conscious effort NOT to be our brothers and sisters. These we are told not to even sit and eat with, nor to take ANY part in their ways.

 

[Imagican]

On the other hand, I see no conceputal distinction between the idea of a police force and a military. I know some people who are opposed to the idea of a military, yet are happy with the existence of armed police. This strikes me as inconsistent.

On the whole, if God wants individuals to embrace non-violence, I think He also wants the same of nations

end of quote;

You are so right! I don't believe in weapons even for self protection. I would not teach my kids to join police force or military. Jesus says no more eye for eye and tooth for tooth. He meant it. If I or my family or anyone is endanger of being harmed, of course we should do everything to protect them, but we dont have to use weapon to do it. We have to trust God to potect what ever it has to be done as His follower wihout relying on weapon.

Christ tells us that He did NOT come to bring peace on this planet. He stated without confusion that there would be wars and rumors of wars, (NO PEACE), until His return to fight the LAST BATTLE. You seem to choose to ignore these teachings in favor of one line of scripture. When taken as a whole we plainly see that this teaching of 'turn the other cheek' was specifically aimed towards our treatment of each other. There are certainly times that the way of the individual and the way of a nation can and must differ. To deny this is to deny reality.

And it's also necessary to understand that at the time of Christ there was practically NO technology to speak of and very few people compared to the times in which we live. Can you really imagine a nation without police? Everyone out doing whatever they choose and nothing to stop them but 'the people'? This certainly works in small groups, but in cities with millions of inhabitants? Utter chaos!

So, in a utopian environment, (such as heaven), these things spoken of concerning no war, no weapons, peace, brotherly love, turn the other cheek, etc...., SOUND really really good. But in reality they are far from practical at the present time. A brief study of history and even the things presently taking place around the world show that if this were the stand taken there wouldn't be anyone left to teach of Christ.

We are also told to abide by the laws of our land and follow the leaders of our land for they are placed in power by and held accountable by God Himself. It's His will that will allow them to continue or cease their actions.

 

[gingercat]

And I offer that not a single person present is perfect. There are many many other more important changes that are needed to live up to the standard that Christ set.

end of quote;

I am not perfect, my family is not perfect, but we do our best to follow His teachings. He wants us to be givers; we give, He wants us to be kind to every one around us; we do our best to be kind to every one. He wants us to study the Bible every day; we do it every day. He wants us to spread good news to the world, we do our best doing it. He wants us not to give revenge because they are evil; we do not fight back with weapons, we just escape.

 

[gingercat]

sorry, double post :

 

[gingercat]

Christ tells us that He did NOT come to bring peace on this planet.

end of quote;


This is another convenient interpretation.

My husband and my oldest son don't want have anything to do with us because we are following Him. They are churchgoers but they don't want to follow His teachings. They believe they are saved without any fruit of Christianity.

This kind of situation Jesus is talking about. It is all about spiritual battle, not the worldly killing!

 

[Imagican]

I commend what you have stated. But I still offer that you would not have this luxury to perform were it not for those that have fought and died so that you could sit back in a coutry that offers the freedom of this one and be able to say these things. Escape sounds good if possible. Often however, it's not quite that simple. And if I were standing in your living room right now with a pistol pointed at your daughters head telling her to strip or die, you'd probably be wishing that you had a weapon to defend yourself, (or at least your daughter). If not, then you are certainly one of a kind.

Loving others is what we are to strive for ginger, but anyone would have to admit that there are times when this becomes 'almost' impossible. There are certainly those that push us to do what we can in order to eliminate their negative behavior. Especially when such behavior threatens the well-being of those that we love the most. I know, I know, it's easy to talk about love for our brothers and sisters, but the truth is that we love most those that are closest to us. And there is little that most would NOT do in order to protect them from those that would cause them harm.

I, for one, don't agree with the death penalty. But, let me walk into the room where someone is raping or murdering one of my loved ones and they would most likely never get a chance to be strapped into a chair and electrocuted. If possible, I would probably save the state the money and effort to bring such an individual to trial. But all this goes to show that my convictions against the death penalty are easy to voice when I am not the one being victimized. It's real easy to sit back and talk about why the death penalty is wrong, but as stated, if I were the one that had been victimized, it's quite possible that I would 'personally' bring about the death of such a perpetrator. I am not being anything other than honest. I wish we lived in a world where I could just concentrate on doing the right thing without sll the other outside influences that exist. But, I choose to be realistic in that there are many many things about which i would feel differently if I were in a different position.

 

[destiny]

Take a close look at Matthew 26 and look at the verse that is usually omitted...
Verse 56
"Have you come out as against a robber with swords and clubs to take Me?"
This is when He was arrested after Peter was rebuked for cutting off the gaurds ear...Yet Jesus is saying they are acting as if he were a robber.
Doesn't that tell you we are expected to show some aggression in certain situations and in others we don't...thats what it tells me.
Also He said in Luke...
"Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand?"
He didn't condemn war in that verse, He gave advice about how you go about it the right way.

 

[gingercat]

I commend what you have stated. But I still offer that you would not have this luxury to perform were it not for those that have fought and died so that you could sit back in a coutry that offers the freedom of this one and be able to say these things. Escape sounds good if possible. Often however, it's not quite that simple. And if I were standing in your living room right now with a pistol pointed at your daughters head telling her to strip or die, you'd probably be wishing that you had a weapon to defend yourself, (or at least your daughter). If not, then you are certainly one of a kind.

end of quote,

I cannot change history and Jesus does not want us to change anything. He just wants us to deal with what He gave us. He gave me where I am now and that's what I have to deal with. I do my best with what He is giving me.

 

[gingercat]

"Have you come out as against a robber with swords and clubs to take Me?"


"Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand?"

No, He is not condemning war, but that does not mean He is approving of it either. Many times, we have to interpret within context. We should not interpret it for our own selfish purposes.

hitomi

 

[destiny]

"Have you come out as against a robber with swords and clubs to take Me?"


"Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand?"

No, He is not condemning war, but that does not mean He is approving of it either. Many times, we have to interpret within context. We should not interpret it for our own selfish purposes.

hitomi

Since you have adamently stated that aggression is always wrong, the burden of proving that He is condemning war and agression based on those posted scriptures is on you.
You haven't done that, you have only posted your opinion.
You refuse to admit that you don't know for a fact what those verses mean.

 

[2NCBrother]

You are all falling into a pit!

There is only one path to true freedom...all of what you are arguing about is vanity!

Jn 8:32
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Yes, the truth is soon to be apparent to all!

 

[gingercat]

Since you have adamently stated that aggression is always wrong, the burden of proving that He is condemning war and agression based on those posted scriptures is on you.
You haven't done that, you have only posted your opinion.
You refuse to admit that you don't know for a fact what those verses mean.

The NT is all about Jesus teachings. It is all about His love for God, and love for each other. What part don't you understand when He says "love your enemy" or no more "eye for eye and tooth for tooth"? When you interpret the otherwise is out of the context.

 

[gingercat]

Re: You are all falling into a pit!

There is only one path to true freedom...all of what you are arguing about is vanity!

Jn 8:32
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Yes, the truth is soon to be apparent to all!

Then why are you here?

 

[destiny]

He's right ginger, it's not always about debate or quarreling and arguing. Those things usually turn into vanity.
I'll leave you knowing you won me out on the endurance end of it.
Theres more constructive things I need to be doing with my time.

Blessings

 

[gingercat]

Good day, destiny :D