Love your enemy

[TruthMiner]

And Thomas was stoned FOR his belief in Christ. NO ONE HAS EVEN MENTIONED being persecuted FOR Christ. Here ya go, Would you let someone rape your mother, wife, or daughter and just stand there and forgive them? If your answer is YES, then I contend that there is NO love in you either of the simple kind that we are able to display ourselves, and certainly NO love of God or Christ within your soul. We are to take NO part in the evil that others do. If you don't get this one any better than the other, then I guess I kinda understand where you are coming from.

So you would argue that the Christians should have come to Stephen's rescue?

 

[Imagican]

I protect myself or any one who needs help from criminals; I just don't kill or harm anyone to do it, at least not on purpose!

Not sure if we are going to be going in circles here, but how exactly is this "protection" going to take place without "harm" to the criminal?

I am not asking a generalized question so a generalized answer will not help me.

The actual situation in question is "a serial rapist trying to rape someone". How exactly is this someone going to "protect" themself without causing "harm" to the rapist? Just so we are not on different pages here, I am not asking a generalized criminal committing a crime situation. In the above rape situation how exactly is one supposed to "protect" without "harming" the rapist at the same time turning ones cheek?

PS: I am not attacking your position on "turning the other cheek" and I hope you don't take my posts otherwise.

Tan,

I think that it this point it's reasonable to assume that these are here simply to cause others to stumble. When one continuosly insists on offering rediculous statements concerning 'faith', at one point we become forced to wonder what 'else' could their intentions possibly be. You and I have both tried to reason with these and it is now obvious that this is not what they are looking for. They are here simply to tell the rest of us how inadequate we are in our walk, and point out how much 'better' they are in theirs. So be it. They should simply forgive us for our lack of what they have, and pray that someday we will obtain it.

 

[Imagican]

And Thomas was stoned FOR his belief in Christ. NO ONE HAS EVEN MENTIONED being persecuted FOR Christ. Here ya go, Would you let someone rape your mother, wife, or daughter and just stand there and forgive them? If your answer is YES, then I contend that there is NO love in you either of the simple kind that we are able to display ourselves, and certainly NO love of God or Christ within your soul. We are to take NO part in the evil that others do. If you don't get this one any better than the other, then I guess I kinda understand where you are coming from.

So you would argue that the Christians should have come to Stephen's rescue?

And I take it that you have chosen to completely ignored what I stated and just want to argue?

 

[TruthMiner]

And Thomas was stoned FOR his belief in Christ. NO ONE HAS EVEN MENTIONED being persecuted FOR Christ. Here ya go, Would you let someone rape your mother, wife, or daughter and just stand there and forgive them? If your answer is YES, then I contend that there is NO love in you either of the simple kind that we are able to display ourselves, and certainly NO love of God or Christ within your soul. We are to take NO part in the evil that others do. If you don't get this one any better than the other, then I guess I kinda understand where you are coming from.

So you would argue that the Christians should have come to Stephen's rescue?

And I take it that you have chosen to completely ignored what I stated and just want to argue?

My question is in response to your argument on this matter. You seem to be insisting we should always come to the aid of those suffering at the hands of others. So, I am asking if that means Stephen's Christian brethren should have helped him.

 

[Imagican]

And Stephen was stoned FOR his belief in Christ. NO ONE HAS EVEN MENTIONED being persecuted FOR Christ. Here ya go, Would you let someone rape your mother, wife, or daughter and just stand there and forgive them? If your answer is YES, then I contend that there is NO love in you either of the simple kind that we are able to display ourselves, and certainly NO love of God or Christ within your soul. We are to take NO part in the evil that others do. If you don't get this one any better than the other, then I guess I kinda understand where you are coming from.

Obviously you didn't want to answer my question above. I will make one more feeble attempt at communication here but if you continue to prove that you are not here to discuss anything, but simply to argue, I will relieve myself of the burden.

Steven was NOT being stoned for anything other than his beliefs in JESUS CHRIST. No one was raping him for sexual satisfaction, or robbing him for personal gain, or simply killing him for the thrill of the act of murder. Those that stoned him probably thought in their hearts that they were doing the work of their God as they had been taught by their religious leaders. I find there to be a big difference in being persecuted for ones beliefs and someone preying on individuals for their own sadistic pleasure. But, to keep from ignoring 'your' question, if I were to witness an individual or group that was stoning someone for their faith in Christ, there's a really good chance that I would step up to the plate and do what I was capable of to STOP THEM. I don't know if I would run home and grab a twelve gauge, but I would certainly step up and do what i was capable of to STOP IT.

Now, I have answered your question. Will you answer mine? What would you do. Just stand there and watch it? Or maybe even help Stephen to become a martyred Saint? Or just walk on by and pretend it never happened? And my other question 'repeated above'? Will you now answer my question?

 

[HisFriend]

And Thomas was stoned FOR his belief in Christ.

Stephen.

Interesting thread.

So if somebody is being physically assaulted for faith in Christ then we should just watch, but if somebody is being physically assaulted for another reason we should rise up and kill them?

Now, I have answered your question. Will you answer mine? What would you do. Just stand there and watch it? Or maybe even help Stephen to become a martyred Saint? Or just walk on by and pretend it never happened? And my other question 'repeated above'? Will you now answer my question?

Jesus has the power to stop every rape that occurs. But he doesn't. I guess he doesn't love them.

 

[gingercat]

[Not sure if we are going to be going in circles here, but how exactly is this "protection" going to take place without "harm" to the criminal?

OK, tan and imagican, how about this, I don't carry around a gun to protect myself and neither does any of my family. We don't have any deadly weapon in the house, so we cannot use any weapon. All we do is to run from attacker. Is that so hard thing to do? I don't even know how to use gun or knife or any sort. So we cannot harm any one, much less kill!

 

[Imagican]

And Thomas was stoned FOR his belief in Christ.

Stephen.

Interesting thread.

So if somebody is being physically assaulted for faith in Christ then we should just watch, but if somebody is being physically assaulted for another reason we should rise up and kill them?

Now, I have answered your question. Will you answer mine? What would you do. Just stand there and watch it? Or maybe even help Stephen to become a martyred Saint? Or just walk on by and pretend it never happened? And my other question 'repeated above'? Will you now answer my question?

Jesus has the power to stop every rape that occurs. But he doesn't. I guess he doesn't love them.

Yes Stephen. OOOOOOOOOOPS.

I am confused by your reply. You certainly must not be responding to my posts other than to point out my mistake in using the name Thomas instead of Stephen. But, if you were mistakenly referring to my post. All you need to do is go back and read them to understand that I advocate that we do what we can to protect anyone from abuse, whether it be religious persecution or physical harm to the innocent for any reason.

 

[Imagican]

[Not sure if we are going to be going in circles here, but how exactly is this "protection" going to take place without "harm" to the criminal?

OK, tan and imagican, how about this, I don't carry around a gun to protect myself and neither does any of my family. We don't have any deadly weapon in the house, so we cannot use any weapon. All we do is to run from attacker. Is that so hard thing to do? I don't even know how to use gun or knife or any sort. So we cannot harm any one, much less kill!

I guess that means that you don't know how to cook either?

 

[gingercat]

[

I guess that means that you don't know how to cook either?

Imagican, my family and I could never use knife to protect ourselvs. All we can do is run or hide! If we cannot run or hide, then we just go and be with Him. Praise the Lord!

 

[TanNinety]

All we do is to run from attacker. Is that so hard thing to do?

Yes. It is a hard thing to do. May be not with your running capabilities but not everybody is blessed to be an athletic runner.

You haven't even answered the questions I have posted. I take it we ARE going to go in circles. I already let you know that I wasn't looking for a generalized answer and asked you to address a specific question. But at this point I am not quite sure if I want to carry this any longer. But thanks for opening the thread though, the point of "love your enemies" is well taken.

 

[Imagican]

All we do is to run from attacker. Is that so hard thing to do?

Yes. It is a hard thing to do. May be not with your running capabilities but not everybody is blessed to be an athletic runner.

You haven't even answered the questions I have posted. I take it we ARE going to go in circles. I already let you know that I wasn't looking for a generalized answer and asked you to address a specific question. But at this point I am not quite sure if I want to carry this any longer. But thanks for opening the thread though, the point of "love your enemies" is well taken.

Amen

 

[stovebolts]

Gingercat,

As Jesus himself said,
John 15:13 Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Men were created with an inner drive to die for those whom we love. It was by God's design for us to protect our wives, our children and our Country. Do you know that your husband would die for you if put in that position? This is one reason why men are willing to go to war.

Now then, why would you ask a man to be less than he was designed by God to be? Why would you knowingly quench his spirit in the mighty name of feminism?

 

[gingercat]

Now then, why would you ask a man to be less than he was designed by God to be? Why would you knowingly quench his spirit in the mighty name of feminism?

It is simple Stove:

Jesus tells us to love all your enemy. Not just yourself and your family or your friends. Your mentality is just as the same as the secular world. Read OP please! Jesus is not the same as secular philosophers or teachers! He is the most unique Person and God. He will not command or teach you the same thing as the secular world! He is Son of God! Prise the Lord!!!!!

 

[stovebolts]

Ok, sounds fair enough so far.

So tell me, will Jesus allow his enemies to conquer him?

 

[gingercat]

Ok, sounds fair enough so far.

So tell me, will Jesus allow his enemies to conquer him?

Are you talking about satan? no, would you get to the point please?

thanks :D

 

[stovebolts]

Ok, so lets put this in perspective.

Jesus said to love your enemies, yet he also said that the greatest thing a man could do is die for his friends.

I think context is needed here. We can't cut and paste scriptures to make our own doctrines (theology).

If you tracked the thought of loving your enemies to it's extreem, you will find yourself in the camps of the Universal salvation group. After all, if God loves people, how could he put them to death in the lake of fire to endure endless suffering?

But scripture says that all of Jesus' enemies will be placed under his feet and made a footstool until the time of the great judgment. Who are the enemies of Christ? Simple, those that prefer darkness.

So tell me what you make of these stern words of Jesus in this particular parable, I am very curious as to how you view them.

Luke 19:27 But those my enemies, who would not that I should reign over them, bring here, and slay them before me.

I realize that you are pointing at military might, yet how many instances in the OT has God brougt up armies against the Isrealites? How many battles did God command in the OT? God does not change, right?

 

[gingercat]

Ok, so lets put this in perspective.

Jesus said to love your enemies, yet he also said that the greatest thing a man could do is die for his friends.

Stove,

What you are doing is take a pick kind of interpretation and practice.

we should not mix OT and NT because in OT God dealt with His people directly.

In NT times, Jesus gave us new commandments. We should not flip flop for our own conveniences.

God is love and Jesus is love. We don't know exactly why God commanded to kill so many evil people. All we can do is speculate.

Jesus is and was pacifist and that's how we should interpret the NT. If we do the otherwise we are out of context.

"love your enemy" is at most noble teaching and Jesus is utmost marciful. He is expecting us to be marciful and loving like He is! He wants us to love even our enemy!

 

[stovebolts]

Ok... :-D

 

[gingercat]

Ok... :-D

God bless you for your honest heart Stove :angel: !!!!!!!