Luke 16:19-31 - Prophecy or No

[Guest]

1. The begger and the rich man have died. DIED!!

Yes, people die all the time and have done so since the beginning.

2. The begger is inside vision/Abrahams bosom/Vision of Heaven

Probably not heaven but paradise. A relatively small point to not get hung up on at this time.

3. The rich man is inside vision/Hades/Vision of Hell

No. As has been pointed out numerous times, Hades is the grave, not Hell. It has been asked of you by two of us to actually do study on the Greek words hades and gehenna, and see how they are used. I also have added that in doing so, you should post what you find out.


Oh, and please see my now finished response at the end of the previous page.

Ok, so you agree that people die, good. Heaven or Paradise, doesn't matter. The begger is in the arms of God, his eternity is secure with God. It's a huge point, what are you talking about??? And you have yet to tell me what the greek word for torment, flame and abraham's bosom is?

 

[VirginShallConceive]

Do you believe Jesus speaks prophecies?

Here, I believe that you are behaving like the entire world accepts that every single Word that Jesus utters is a prophecy, like Jesus has no choice. Like, even if He tried, He couldn't possibly say anything non-prophetic.



When Jesus asks His disciples, "Where is your faith?", I guess that's a prophecy that they eventually lose their faith.

When Jesus says, "All things are possible to him that believeth", I guess that's some allegorical prophecy instead of simply some great advice.

 

[Guest]

Do you believe Jesus speaks prophecies?

Here, I believe that you are behaving like the entire world accepts that every single Word that Jesus utters is a prophecy, like Jesus has no choice. Like, even if He tried, He couldn't possibly say anything non-prophetic.



When Jesus asks His disciples, "Where is your faith?", I guess that's a prophecy that they eventually lose their faith.

When Jesus says, "All things are possible to him that believeth", I guess that's some allegorical prophecy instead of simply some great advice.

No everything Jesus speaks isn't prophecy, but the topic at hand is Luke 16:19-31

 

[Guest]

ALWAYS REMEMBER, WE CANNOT REPENT AFTER WE DIE! IT WILL BE TOO LATE.

 

[Free]

Yes, people die all the time and have done so since the beginning.


Probably not heaven but paradise. A relatively small point to not get hung up on at this time.

3. The rich man is inside vision/Hades/Vision of Hell

No. As has been pointed out numerous times, Hades is the grave, not Hell. It has been asked of you by two of us to actually do study on the Greek words hades and gehenna, and see how they are used. I also have added that in doing so, you should post what you find out.


Oh, and please see my now finished response at the end of the previous page.

Ok, so you agree that people die, good. Heaven or Paradise, doesn't matter. The begger is in the arms of God, his eternity is secure with God. It's a huge point, what are you talking about???

Where do you see "the begger is in the arms of God" or "his eternity is secure with God" in this passage?

And you have yet to tell me what the greek word for torment, flame and abraham's bosom is?

That is a deflection of what has been asked of you and is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

 

[Guest]

Where do you see "the begger is in the arms of God" or "his eternity is secure with God" in this passage?

Well, you tell me. What is the greek word for abraham's bosom. His eternity is secure with God, because THAT'S the vision, abraham's bosom. Scripture tells us that whoever repents in this lifetime goes to heaven. This vision from Jesus is telling us that the begger repented in this lifetime. How can you not see this as a Christian, Free.

And you have yet to tell me what the greek word for torment, flame and abraham's bosom is?

That is a deflection of what has been asked of you and is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Oh no, torment and flame are clearly in these scriptures. Torment and flame is describing hell. Hell is in the afterlife!! Who's deflecting who, what am i deflecting. Come on man. It's time to open eyes. :o

 

[VirginShallConceive]

No everything Jesus speaks isn't prophecy, but the topic at hand is Luke 16:19-31

Oh, so when we are discussing the topic at hand, we can now agree that this

Free, I already told you in my post. Did you read it? Doulos, you're the one that's being ignorant to what Jesus is saying. Do you believe Jesus speaks prophecies? Frank from the coffee shop isn't who is speaking in Luke 16, it's JESUS! Notice Luke 17 speaks about trespassing, repentance and faith! JESUS JESUS JESUS. WHO IS JESUS!

is a weak argument when trying to classify Luke 16:19-31 in the "Prophecy" section.



I'm glad we can finally move beyond that.

 

[Guest]

Free, I already told you in my post. Did you read it? Doulos, you're the one that's being ignorant to what Jesus is saying. Do you believe Jesus speaks prophecies? Frank from the coffee shop isn't who is speaking in Luke 16, it's JESUS! Notice Luke 17 speaks about trespassing, repentance and faith! JESUS JESUS JESUS. WHO IS JESUS!

is a weak argument when trying to classify Luke 16:19-31 in the "Prophecy" section.



I'm glad we can finally move beyond that.

You think Jesus speaking to us is weak? just like you said the prophet who wrote Revelation 20:10 is on crack?

 

[Free]

Where do you see "the begger is in the arms of God" or "his eternity is secure with God" in this passage?

Well, you tell me. What is the greek word for abraham's bosom. His eternity is secure with God, because THAT'S the vision, abraham's bosom.

Firstly, I'm not going to look up the Greek behind a word that you are using for your own argument. You need to look up that word and see if your argument can stand. Secondly, how are you at all certain that "His eternity is secure with God, because THAT'S the vision, abraham's bosom," when you don't even know what the Greek word(s) is behind the phrase "Abraham's bosom"?

Scripture tells us that whoever repents in this lifetime goes to heaven. This vision from Jesus is telling us that the begger repented in this lifetime. How can you not see this as a Christian, Free.

This has never been a question of whether or not people who repent go to heaven; it's been a question of when do they go to heaven.

And you have yet to tell me what the greek word for torment, flame and abraham's bosom is?

That is a deflection of what has been asked of you and is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

Oh no, torment and flame are clearly in these scriptures. Torment and flame is describing hell. Hell is in the afterlife!! Who's deflecting who, what am i deflecting. Come on man. It's time to open eyes. :o

You are deflecting by not answering what is asked of you. This is something you have consistently done. You instead reply by asking questions that are based on your use of circular reasoning. I don't know if you've given a straight answer yet.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

You think Jesus speaking to us is weak? just like you said the prophet who wrote Revelation 20:10 is on crack?

I don't mind a slight tug on my words here and there, but you've got to be kidding me. I never said that Jesus speaking to us is weak. You said that. Concerning our discussion about Revelation 20:10, you are the one who accused me of accusing the Holy Spirit of such behavior. I'm glad you lowered it down to "prophet", even though I didn't even say that.

You are growing a reputation of twisting people's words around. I honestly believe there is still time to reverse that reputation.

I've admitted that I was wrong up and down these forums. Something inside me doesn't like to admit when I am wrong. But, the more I do it, the easier it becomes.

 

[Guest]

Firstly, I'm not going to look up the Greek behind a word that you are using for your own argument. You need to look up that word and see if your argument can stand. Secondly, how are you at all certain that "His eternity is secure with God, because THAT'S the vision, abraham's bosom," when you don't even know what the Greek word(s) is behind the phrase "Abraham's bosom"?

My own argument, what? No, scripture clearly states torment 4 times in Luke 16 and flame is mentioned in Luke 16:24. So again, what is the Greek words for torment and flame. Luke 16:25 clearly says that Lazarus was comforted. Comforted by whom????? Abraham's bosom is inside God's comfort. No, Free. Luke 16 IS talking about repentance. Notice Luke 16:30.

You are deflecting by not answering what is asked of you. This is something you have consistently done. You instead reply by asking questions that are based on your use of circular reasoning. I don't know if you've given a straight answer yet.

What is asked of me????????? PLEASE TELL ME AND I WILL ANSWER!!!

You think Jesus speaking to us is weak? just like you said the prophet who wrote Revelation 20:10 is on crack?

I don't mind a slight tug on my words here and there, but you've got to be kidding me. I never said that Jesus speaking to us is weak. You said that. Concerning our discussion about Revelation 20:10, you are the one who accused me of accusing the Holy Spirit of such behavior. I'm glad you lowered it down to "prophet", even though I didn't even say that.

You are growing a reputation of twisting people's words around. I honestly believe there is still time to reverse that reputation.

I've admitted that I was wrong up and down these forums. Something inside me doesn't like to admit when I am wrong. But, the more I do it, the easier it becomes.

You said it's a weak argument, and Jesus is the one speaking 1+1=2. No Virgin, you had said whoever wrote that scripture is on crack. Well, who wrote it? Prophets, what are the prophets indwelled with?? The Holy Spirit. Yes, I can honor that, you admit your wrong. Blessings.

 

[Guest]

This thread is funny.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

This thread is funny.

Indeed, it should be closed... It's going no where, and was destined to go nowhere.

 

[Guest]

This thread is funny.

Indeed, it should be closed... It's going no where, and was destined to go nowhere.

I am baffled why nobody understands. P31 is the only person that understands what Abraham's bosom is.

 

[Free]

My own argument, what? No, scripture clearly states torment 4 times in Luke 16 and flame is mentioned in Luke 16:24. So again, what is the Greek words for torment and flame.

That is not what I was just addressing. Why are you not following along? Go back and read exactly what I was addressing. That is what the quoting feature is for.

You asked: "Well, you tell me. What is the greek word for abraham's bosom. His eternity is secure with God, because THAT'S the vision, abraham's bosom."

As you can clearly see then, my response was to you wanting me to tell you the Greek behind "Abraham's bosom," not "torment" and "flame." Your request for the Greek behind "torment" and "flame" is your deflection for not wanting to look up the Greek usage of hades and gehenna.

Luke 16:25 clearly says that Lazarus was comforted. Comforted by whom????? Abraham's bosom is inside God's comfort.

I don't know what you're getting at here.

What is asked of me????????? PLEASE TELL ME AND I WILL ANSWER!!!

Again, all you have to do is go back through the quotes and see what I asked of you. Doing so shows that myself (and someone else) asked this of you:

"As has been pointed out numerous times, Hades is the grave, not Hell. It has been asked of you by two of us to actually do study on the Greek words hades and gehenna, and see how they are used. I also have added that in doing so, you should post what you find out."

You said it's a weak argument, and Jesus is the one speaking 1+1=2.

A weak argument has absolutely nothing to do with who is speaking. I strongly suggest looking up the phrase "weak argument" in Google.

This thread is funny.

Actually, no it isn't. Pretty soon no one is going to engage you anymore because of your unwillingness to engage in proper debate and discussion.

Do you have a pastor? If so, ask him about Luke 16:19-31.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

You said it's a weak argument, and Jesus is the one speaking 1+1=2. No Virgin, you had said whoever wrote that scripture is on crack. Well, who wrote it? Prophets, what are the prophets indwelled with?? The Holy Spirit. Yes, I can honor that, you admit your wrong. Blessings.

I will insert a hypothetical disagreement between me and a made-up poster.


Hypothetical Poster: "John 10:28 says, 'And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.' That means that Jesus makes His sheep suffer for all eternity. That is no way to treat one's sheep!"


Me: "That is a weak argument. John 10:28 is referring to Jesus' sheep who will spend a joyful eternity in Heaven, as is stated throughout the New Testament."


Hypothetical Poster: "Duh . . . one plus one equals two! You just accused the Words of Jesus of being weak!"



You don't see a problem with that faulty arithmetic?

 

[VirginShallConceive]

This thread is funny.

Indeed, it should be closed... It's going no where, and was destined to go nowhere.

I disagree. It's going somewhere. It exposes the way certain people behave when their argument gets backed into a corner. Anyone who reads this thread can find out where some of the posters are coming from.

 

[Guest]

Free, I am addressing this now, so let's start over. I am addressing torment and flame in Luke 16. Why are these written in Luke 16:19-31. You can ignore these words, but they won't go away.

 

[Guest]

FLAME IS FLAME AND TORMENT IS TORMENT NO MATTER WHAT TRANSLATION IT IS. STOP PLAYING GAMES!

 

[VirginShallConceive]

Free, I am addressing this now, so let's start over. I am addressing torment and flame in Luke 16. Why are these written in Luke 16:19-31. You can ignore these words, but they won't go away.

Whether Jesus is telling a parable, or if Jesus is talking about what happened to a real live rich man, the rich man finds himself in a place of torment. He can see Abraham and Lazarus off in the distance. Abraham explains that nothing can pass between them, besides the obvious fact that sound can, since the two are having a conversation.

If you first assume that it is a parable, there is no need to get technical and try to scientifically dissect every little detail about the story.