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Luke 22

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Every Tuesday morning at 6:00am I attend a weekly men’s breakfast at a local café in town. This morning we were looking at Luke 22 and a few verses stuck out for me and I would like to explore these in more detail to gain better understanding. I have basically three questions about this scripture and I don’t know if they are related or not. I’ve included the scripture reference below.

1. Did Judas have a choice whether or not to sell out to the chief priests?
2. Based on verse 53, why was Judas’ role necessary?
3. What was the temptation Jesus was referring to in verses 40 and 46?

Luke 22:1-6, 19-23, 39-53
1 Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover.
2 And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people.
3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
4 And he went his way, and communed with the chief priests and captains, how he might betray him unto them.
5 And they were glad, and covenanted to give him money.
6 And he promised, and sought opportunity to betray him unto them in the absence of the multitude.


19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, “This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.”
20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
21 But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table.
22 And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!”

23 And they began to enquire among themselves, which of them it was that should do this thing.


39 And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him.
40 And when he was at the place, he said unto them, “Pray that ye enter not into temptation.”
41 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,
42 Saying, “Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.”
43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
45 And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow,
46 And said unto them, “Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation.”


47 And while he yet spake, behold a multitude, and he that was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them, and drew near unto Jesus to kiss him.
48 But Jesus said unto him, “Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?”
49 When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, “Lord, shall we smite with the sword?”
50 And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear.
51 And Jesus answered and said, “Suffer ye thus far.” And he touched his ear, and healed him.
52 Then Jesus said unto the chief priests, and captains of the temple, and the elders, which were come to him, “Be ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and staves?
53 When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.”
 

1. Did Judas have a choice whether or not to sell out to the chief priests?

No. The plan of Salvation was put into effect before the foundation of the world.....
Rev_13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

2. Based on verse 53, why was Judas’ role necessary?

Jesus was sold out for the general price of a slave. I see the picture of Joseph being sold by his 'brothers' . the prophesies of Him that needed fullfilling..... Jesus let them know they did not have control of the whole deal.

3. What was the temptation Jesus was referring to in verses 40 and 46?

I doubt Jesus the man wanted to be hung on that cross, some temptation to not follow through was there as He says not 'My will but Thine..' The bigger picture to me is not wanting to bare the sins of the world Jesus the man was innocent zero sin what and ugly thing for him to take on.... He sweat....

Gen_3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Eze_44:18 They shall have linen bonnets upon their heads, and shall have linen breeches upon their loins; they shall not gird themselves with any thing that causeth sweat.

Thank you Jesus for taking my sins to the Cross for covering me with your Blood...
 
1. Did Judas have a choice whether or not to sell out to the chief priests?

No. The plan of Salvation was put into effect before the foundation of the world.....
Rev_13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
This inspires more questions.

It seems that prophesy did foretell the selling out of Christ for I believe 30 pieces of silver? (don't recall where it is written) but was it foretold that it would come from one of his own disciples?

If Judas had no choice then how does Jesus hold him accountable for something he didn't choose to do?

Just for the sake of argument, assuming Judas did have a choice, could Satan have entered into him without his consent? In other words, if Judas was wearing the armor of Christ, could Satan have possibly even done this at all? Does this point to a lack of faith on Judas’ part or a falling away?

2. Based on verse 53, why was Judas’ role necessary?

Jesus was sold out for the general price of a slave. I see the picture of Joseph being sold by his 'brothers' . the prophesies of Him that needed fullfilling..... Jesus let them know they did not have control of the whole deal.
True, but why was it necessary for Judas to bring them to Jesus since they had ample opportunity to do so many times and they knew who he was? One explanation I have come up with was that Judas was instrumental in bringing them to him at a time when he was alone or nearly alone. That way they wouldn't have to arrest him in front of His multitude of followers where they would risk armed confrontation.


3. What was the temptation Jesus was referring to in verses 40 and 46?

I doubt Jesus the man wanted to be hung on that cross, some temptation to not follow through was there as He says not 'My will but Thine..' The bigger picture to me is not wanting to bare the sins of the world Jesus the man was innocent zero sin what and ugly thing for him to take on.... He sweat....

Gen_3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Eze_44:18 They shall have linen bonnets upon their heads, and shall have linen breeches upon their loins; they shall not gird themselves with any thing that causeth sweat.
Was Jesus concerned about his own temptation? The text seems to indicate that Jesus was concerned about his disciples falling into temptation. One explanation that I seem to have come to was this. It does say they were (KJV) “sleeping for sorrow.†The NIV reads, “exhausted from sorrow.†Was Jesus concerned about them possibly giving in to doubt considering what they were about to witness? They were still expecting Jesus to lead a great revolt against the Romans not see their beloved leader mocked, ridiculed, beaten, flogged, tortured, and hung on a cross until dead.
 
This inspires more questions.

It seems that prophesy did foretell the selling out of Christ for I believe 30 pieces of silver? (don't recall where it is written) but was it foretold that it would come from one of his own disciples?
Zac 11 I think
If Judas had no choice then how does Jesus hold him accountable for something he
didn't choose to do?
That sir is a can of worms a big can!
Rom_9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom_9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?


Just for the sake of argument, assuming Judas did have a choice, could Satan
have entered into him without his consent? In other words, if Judas was wearing
the armor of Christ, could Satan have possibly even done this at all? Does
this point to a lack of faith on Judas’ part or a falling away?
(a) nope satan is not mightier then Christ. (b) nope
True, but why was it necessary for Judas to bring them to Jesus since they had
ample opportunity to do so many times and they knew who he was? One explanation
I have come up with was that Judas was instrumental in bringing them to him at a
time when he was alone or nearly alone. That way they wouldn't have to arrest
him in front of His multitude of followers where they would risk armed
confrontation.
Not meaning to be side stepping with this answer They did what they did as God planed it,... My simple childlike faith:) The confrontation they had ( peter) Jesus fixed the guys ear... They knew first hand of His power....God set the hour shoot He had set up Passover a few years before ..

Was Jesus concerned about his own temptation? The text seems to indicate that Jesus was concerned about his disciples falling into temptation. One explanation that I seem to have come to was this. It does say they were (KJV) “sleeping for sorrow.” The NIV reads, “exhausted from sorrow.” Was Jesus concerned about them possibly giving in to doubt considering what they were about to witness? They were still expecting Jesus to lead a great revolt against the Romans not see their beloved leader mocked, ridiculed, beaten, flogged, tortured, and hung on a cross until dead.

He told Pete what Pete was gonna do Jesus was/is God He knew...


This inspires more questions.
Is there another book ,we can never learn all it has to say? The Scriptures amaze me :)
 
This is a topic that is always divided.
John 3:17.
Jesus came to save the whole world.
His mission was not condemnation, but salvation.
But this salvation is only for those who believe.

Surely God saw that Judas would fulfill the prophesy.
But he still had a choice.

I had an old friend that I witnessed to but he simply said with a smirk, "I guess I'm just not chosen".
I see that as a copout, a poor excuse.

Everyone is chosen, few believe.
 
Good questions.

1. Did Judas have a choice weather or not to sell out Jesus?

Because Judas did sell out Jesus, at least His location & the logistics; In order to answer this we would have to pre-suppose a few things. I think that's OK to do as long as we do it reasonably.

While we might be tempted to say that Judas had a choice and just decided against a better choice; The first presupposition I would make, rather than that here, is that Judas never truly loved the Master, only what he thought the Master could do for him. I think Judas felt that he was looking to see if he could truly judge Jesus as the messiah before he could truly Love, or follow Him.

To me all "choice" is an action upon a motivation or desire. Or, another way to view choice is to say that all choice has a motivation behind it. So, choice is the affect of a desire. I think this is important when contemplating Judas and his choice, because it allows us to look deeper into his desire for what he did, as to why he did it.

So, what is a reasonable presupposition then, that we can apply to Judas.
1. He did not Love Jesus
2. He simply made a bad choice
3. ? I can't think of a third

One thing for sure, the amount of silver he revived was worth more to him than Christ. Maybe he also thought that his would receive some prominence with the priest for this, and that also was worth more to him. Interestingly, and I think poignant, is Judas suicide afterwards. That act says something, and to me, it was an act of repentance.

So, did Judas have a choice whether or not to sell Jesus out? to sell Him out, or not sell him out? NO. He did not. Because we can ultimately only realize one option of any "choice", and choice is an act of motivated desire, the choice is made before we sometimes think it is, or before the action is taking to say we made the choice.



2. Based on verse 53, why was Judas role necessary?

Here is where we reach some theological paradoxicality (if that is a word). I submit that Judas role was not necessary. It stands to reason that Christ would hold foreknowledge of Judas role, but in the grand scheme of God's will here, did he need Judas to fulfill anything? If he did, then we risk some reconciliation problems in saying God somehow made Judas do this. Obviously He did not keep Judas from doing what he did,and that would be a more proper way to view it in keeping with the nature of God and His will,- vs - man and his will. So I see no significancy's to Judas role in this.

3. What was the temptation Jesus was referring to in verses 40, & 46?

This is very significant. Jesus specifically prays for the will of the Father over His own will. I have a hard time saying Jesus was referring to His own temptation to spare Himself of what was to happen, but He draws strength from God the father, rather than Himself. That's very telling about Jesus, the personhood of God and God the father. What can any of us do when tempted? we can give in to it, or we can pray that we are not tempted, but we can not will ourselves not to be tempted.
 
That sir is a can of worms a big can!
Rom_9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
Rom_9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Yes, that would lead into the area I have the most difficult time understanding.... predestination. For that topic I just rest on the fact that God knows what's best and I don't have to be concerned with the answer. I am just asked to believe and trust in Him and that is what I will do.
 
One thing for sure, the amount of silver he received was worth more to him than Christ.
I think Reba was trying to tell me the same thing but for some reason it didn't sink in until now, how little Christ's life was worth to Judas. Interesting....and very sad.
 
So, what is a reasonable presupposition then, that we can apply to Judas.
1. He did not Love Jesus
2. He simply made a bad choice
3. ? I can't think of a third
A third that I have heard before is that Judas may have expected a different outcome and that he was in fact thinking he was doing Jesus a favor that would somehow spare his life. I just don't recall exactly how it was presented to me though so I can't explain it further than that. Sorry.
 
Danus, I think Judas did have a choice.
In Matthew 3:2, Jesus said, "repent for the Kingdom of Heaven is near".
Everyone in hearing distance was given a choice.
 
2. Yes, that role was necessary. Someone needed to lead them to Him in darkness. I think that in the light of day His utter goodness is revealed to the multitude and even in the temple they could not take Him. It had to be hidden. That time when sin is most active, hidden in darkness. We see in Rev. that in heaven there will be no night, no darkness. In Him there is no darkness.

3. I agree with your premise that it was the apostles that may be tempted to give up their faith in Him and turn back. He was about to bring about saving Grace.
When we become tried and weary we may be tempted to give up but we must wait, for He is faithful to do what He has promised.

I have to think more on number one, it's a tough one for me. What a great study. Thank you for sharing it with us.
 
I'll add some more thought to this tonight. My VP is on site walking past my office. I guess they expect me to make some money today ha ha ha.
 
1. This is as far as I have gotten towards the first question although it is certainly not complete.
I do not believe that Judas knew Jesus as LORD. Peter had declared that Jesus was the Christ (the Messiah) but did Judas have a revelation of this truth as Peter did. These are the two scriptures that have lead me to the conclusion that he did not.
Matthew 26:21-25

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

21 As they were eating, He said, “(A)Truly I say to you that one of you will betray Me.” 22 Being deeply grieved, they [a]each one began to say to Him, “Surely not I, Lord?”23 And He answered, “(B)He who dipped his hand with Me in the bowl is the one who will betray Me. 24 The Son of Man is to go, (C)just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! (D)It would have been good [b]for that man if he had not been born.” 25 And (E)Judas, who was betraying Him, said, “Surely it is not I, (F)Rabbi?” Jesus *said to him, “(G)You have said it yourself.”

Why did Jesus say, "You have said it yourself."? Judas called Jesus Rabbi (teacher). The others "each of them" called Jesus Lord.

Matthew 26:49

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

49 Immediately Judas went to Jesus and said, “Hail, (A)Rabbi!” and kissed Him.
 
1. I believe that God chose Judas with His foreknowledge that Judas would not accept Jesus as Lord, to fullfil the scripture in Psalms 41:9.

John 13:18

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

18 (A)I do not speak of all of you. I know the ones I have (B)chosen; but it is (C)that the Scripture may be fulfilled, ‘(D)He who eats My bread has lifted up his heel against Me.’
 
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1. This is as far as I have gotten towards the first question although it is certainly not complete.
I do not believe that Judas knew Jesus as LORD. Peter had declared that Jesus was the Christ (the Messiah) but did Judas have a revelation of this truth as Peter did. These are the two scriptures that have lead me to the conclusion that he did not.
Matthew 26:21-25

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

21 As they were eating, He said, “(A)Truly I say to you that one of you will betray Me.†22 Being deeply grieved, they [a]each one began to say to Him, “Surely not I, Lord?â€23 And He answered, “(B)He who dipped his hand with Me in the bowl is the one who will betray Me. 24 The Son of Man is to go, (C)just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! (D)It would have been good [b]for that man if he had not been born.†25 And (E)Judas, who was betraying Him, said, “Surely it is not I, (F)Rabbi?†Jesus *said to him, “(G)You have said it yourself.â€

Why did Jesus say, "You have said it yourself."? Judas called Jesus Rabbi (teacher). The others "each of them" called Jesus Lord.

Matthew 26:49

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

49 Immediately Judas went to Jesus and said, “Hail, (A)Rabbi!†and kissed Him.

How does this answer the question did judas have a choice? I agree Judas was never one of the 'fold'. The plan of salvation was laid out from the beginning... I cannot find God leaving Salvation to any form of chance.

I am trying to remember why/where I believe Jesus chose the twelve. Judas was one of the twelve. I have no doubt Jesus always know Judas was the "bad guy." I found it

Joh_6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
 
Yikes I will not reply to this line of thinking again in this thread... I do not want to derail it. :(
 
1.14 (P)Then one of the twelve, named (Q)Judas Iscariot, went to the chief priests 15 and said, “What are you willing to give me [a]to [b](R)betray Him to you?” And (S)they weighed out thirty [c]pieces of silver to him. 16 From then on he began looking for a good opportunity to [d]betray [e]Jesus.

Judas approaches the chief priest on his own. There is no mention of satan making him do anything. It appears to be of his own volition, the evilness (greed) in his own heart.

John 13:2
2 During supper, (A)the devil having already put into the heart of (B)Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon, to betray Him,
Here the word for devil is G1228 - diabolos which is a adjective In this case I believe it is describing the heart of Judas. According to Strong's it can be used as a metaphor for a man who is against the cause of God.

John 13:27
27 After the morsel, (A)Satan then (B)entered into him. Therefore Jesus *said to him, “What you do, do quickly.”
G4567- Satanas - This is truly satan or at the least his demons (that would later torment Judas) that entered in.

I think we can see a progression into deeper sin than he could find his way out of. His hard heart would not receive Jesus as Lord. His greed lead him to betrayal and opened the door for satan to enter. It's also interesting to note that the scripture says "it was night".
 
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Yikes I will not reply to this line of thinking again in this thread... I do not want to derail it. :(

Reba, please what line of thinking are you referring to? What did I say that is so upsetting to you? I am certainly open to correction!!

I clearly said in post #10 that God chose Judas. Then went on to state why I believe that Judas was not part of the "fold".

I'm confused??
 
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