Jethro Bodine
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Calvinism vs. non-Calvinism is not a matter of one's eternal destiny. It's a curious but non-essential debate within Christianity.
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Luke 7:30 examples of those who reject the purpose of God for themselves
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Jethro Bodine
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Exactly what I was thinking.
brightfame52
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I disagree, I stand by what I stated.
Jethro Bodine
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In all fairness to Calvinism, I think the argument is that men don't choose to reject God. They do that by default, unless they have had it built into them from creation that they will have it within themselves the will to respond to the Gospel message after being sovereignly born again by the Spirit.
Jethro Bodine
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Yes, I am aware that Calvinism rejects Romans 2:14-16 that explains how all men receive the testimony of God upon which they can choose to live for him in faith, or choose not to live for him.
Jethro Bodine
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...and that faith can be rejected.
Jethro Bodine
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The Pharisees knowingly rejected the testimony of the Spirit performing miracles through Jesus. They chose not to believe, becoming guilty of an eternal unforgivable sin.
Jethro Bodine
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They were predestined to sin. But the testimony of God given to all men in all ages is what provides the basis upon which to either condemn them or acquit them on the Day of Christ. They will not be condemned for simply being born unsaved and guilty of sin as Calvinism asserts.
Jethro Bodine
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In Calvinism, God picks your religion, not you.
brightfame52
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If thats what you think.
Jethro Bodine
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The important point here is they knowingly chose Satan in the face of the sure testimony of God on display in the life and ministry of Jesus. That's ultimately what made them accountable for the choice they made.
Jethro Bodine
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Calvinism can't explain who these people are in Romans 2:14-16 that will be aquitted on the Day of Christ apart from the knowledge of the Son of Promise. And so it ignores them.
atpollard
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In Judaism, too.
Just ask Abram. ?
brightfame52
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If thats what you think so be it
Jethro Bodine
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Jethro Bodine
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Help me to not think that about Calvinism.
Christ_empowered
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I lean Calvinist but that’s mostly because I cannot ignore obvious indications of predestination or at least serious foreknowledge in Scripture. Moving on…
I’ve read that the Bible and ideally church as well should all focus on those who have repented and come to know Jesus. So…
The warnings against apostasy are for believers. Encouraging verses to persevere are for believers and church itself should focus on believers and our needs.
Just a side note ?️ but one that has been helpful to me in looking at scripture differently. Oh…
And interesting point unbelievers being graced without knowing Jesus. I think the Catholic Church still teaches that unbelievers can go to heaven especially when things presented a serious block to conversion while on earth ?.
I’ve read that the Bible and ideally church as well should all focus on those who have repented and come to know Jesus. So…
The warnings against apostasy are for believers. Encouraging verses to persevere are for believers and church itself should focus on believers and our needs.
Just a side note ?️ but one that has been helpful to me in looking at scripture differently. Oh…
And interesting point unbelievers being graced without knowing Jesus. I think the Catholic Church still teaches that unbelievers can go to heaven especially when things presented a serious block to conversion while on earth ?.
atpollard
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That sounds very merciful and loving, but doesn’t that mean that God the Father killed His Son unnecessarily? I mean if SOME people can get to heaven without Jesus, then …
(That doesn’t seem so merciful and loving, does it?)
Christ_empowered
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I struggle with scriptures that deal with this. But…
What if some of the elect are not able to become Christians? Christ died for them God knows and loves them…
Maybe they were aborted or miscarried or profoundly brain damaged or kept in such horrible conditions in the world that conversion just wasn’t the cards?
Think about church going slave owners in 18th and 19th century southern states. We’re they elect but the people they enslaved who may only have had access to heavily edited bibles if anything at all were not?
What if some of the elect are not able to become Christians? Christ died for them God knows and loves them…
Maybe they were aborted or miscarried or profoundly brain damaged or kept in such horrible conditions in the world that conversion just wasn’t the cards?
Think about church going slave owners in 18th and 19th century southern states. We’re they elect but the people they enslaved who may only have had access to heavily edited bibles if anything at all were not?
Jethro Bodine
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Calvinism does not own those terms.
Predestination and foreknowledge are clear Biblical principles.
Calvinism and non-Calvinism differ on what they actually mean.
