Lust

[Levi]

Excuse lust in mind however you care to spin it.

Oh so we should not marry then? it is a sin to find your partner attractive??

Your attitude goes beyond puritan, I would say that it is extremely deluded and Satan is quite capable of using an attitude such as yours.

It has happened many times over the centuries and continues to do so.

From the stoning of woman buried up to their wastes because they are agents of the tempter!

To the beating and imprisoning of young people for going through puberty.

I find your lack of common sense and inability to discern what God has meant for good and what Satan has twisted for evil, downright dangerous

And of course that 'never' happens with 'you.'

Why would you even make such a personal attack in this conversation, at what point have I ever attempted to say I am wihtout temptation? what has warranted this? Have I offended your pride?

And of course no tempter is involved in your mind there either. I'll wait for the fess up, if it comes.

If you had bothered to read my posts you would see quite clearly that I have stated numerous times that the natural man is 'fallen' and as such the flesh is sinful by nature.

"who knows the mind of God, but we have the mind of Christ..:"

"be ye transformed by the renewing of your minds.."

Do you know what this means? do you know what it means to be a slave of righteousness, to have the mind of Christ whereby a man may make decisions that will lead him into a Holy existence?

And I would submit the instant any remote thought however spare remains adultery in mind inserted there by the tempter.

Do with that fact what you wish and excuse same if you wish.

s

There is an old saying, it goes like this:

Satan was sitting on the front steps of a church crying someone asked him whats wrong? Satan replied "they are blaming me in there for things I haven't even done"

This is what the verse says: "...If a man even looks upon a woman to desire her I will judge him guilty of adultery"

Big difference between being tempted and indulging!

Do with that fact as you wish.

 

[smaller]

Oh so we should not marry then? it is a sin to find your partner attractive??

The lust I have for my wife of nearly 30 years remains lust. Spin it or glorify it however you will. I get along with my personal demons on this matter but I also understand from whence it comes. This does not mean that I do not also deeply love her as well.

Your attitude goes beyond puritan, I would say that it is extremely deluded and Satan is quite capable of using an attitude such as yours.

I try not to allow myself to be deceived about lust nor do I excuse the impetus which is satanic.

It has happened many times over the centuries and continues to do so.

Jesus forgave the woman caught in adultery because He knew from whence it came. In essence His statement was 'don't be a pawn.'

Paul had this to say about this matter:

by 1 Corinthians 7:1
Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.

That old puritan Paul knew where sexual desires come from.

From the stoning of woman buried up to their wastes because they are agents of the tempter!

All of us are pawns of the tempter because the fact is we 'all' sin in thought word and deed. Spin or excuse that fact however you wish.

To the beating and imprisoning of young people for going through puberty.

You could stone anyone you wish. They are all agents because all sin in thought word and deed. The stoners are just other pawns of the tempter who abide in hypocrisy which is also of the tempter.

One does not eradicate the facts, period.

I find your lack of common sense and inability to discern what God has meant for good and what Satan has twisted for evil, downright dangerous

And I find your ignorance and excuses a voice of the tempter lying about his implications in all of it. The point is it won't stop regardless. Paul found evil present with him whenever he would do good. At least Paul was honest about it. I do not believe Paul was evil. But evil was with him perpetually by his own admission. See Romans 7:21 for reference. It is a 'law' that none avoid. Those who excuse their sin in mind or say it isn't of the tempter are excusers for that evil present and try to gloss it over. They are in fact full of hypocrisy put within them by the tempter.

Why would you even make such a personal attack in this conversation, at what point have I ever attempted to say I am wihtout temptation? what has warranted this? Have I offended your pride?

Spin it how you will. I admit to sin in mind by the tempter. You got a problem with that fact? Want to make excuses for the tempter in your head. Go ahead. I believe there are no excuses for the tempter, period.

If you had bothered to read my posts you would see quite clearly that I have stated numerous times that the natural man is 'fallen' and as such the flesh is sinful by nature.

It is quite common to blame everyone and every thing BUT the devil. That is where you will hit your own mental roadblock because the devil will NOT allow you to see himself working in you. That is how it is with pawns and slaves. They can't do a thing about it and they assuredly can't tell the truth.

"who knows the mind of God, but we have the mind of Christ..:"

"be ye transformed by the renewing of your minds.."

And one might think that being truthful about this matter is the first step in that regard.

Do you know what this means? do you know what it means to be a slave of righteousness, to have the mind of Christ whereby a man may make decisions that will lead him into a Holy existence?

Yeah, the tempter never does anything in you. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz drone

There is an old saying, it goes like this:

Satan was sitting on the front steps of a church crying someone asked him whats wrong? Satan replied "they are blaming me in there for things I haven't even done"

This is what the verse says: "...If a man even looks upon a woman to desire her I will judge him guilty of adultery"

Big difference between being tempted and indulging!

Do with that fact as you wish.

Ah, did I actually see an admittance of temptation in mind by the tempter? Wow. Now tell me....was it a SIN?

lol

s

 

[smaller]

I know the topic is 'lust.' Lust is in fact SIN. Sin is of the devil.

Here are two glaring examples of very common sin, the sin of THEFT. This sin is done in a persons mind and heart and is NOT of the person in whom this SIN is committed. This sin of THEFT is of the devil in that person doing the SIN.

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Luke 8:12
Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Theft is SIN. The above sins are of the devil, Satan and have zero to do with the victim.

Theft is a sin. Sin is of the devil. Blame and excuse whomever you will BUT the devil. This sin happens in 'all' people who hear the Word and few, very few, ever know it or perceive it yet alone understand that it as a SIN in them by THE DEVIL, SATAN.

There are no excuses or covering up available for the sins of Satan in any person. All sin in thought word and deed. All sin is of the devil.

Where does this place the devil?

Does the devil steal and sin in YOU?

Allow me to answer the fact with a yes. Theft is sin. And that sin of the devil is without excuses or cover ups as far as God in Christ is concerned.

Man will be forgiven. The devil will not be forgiven.

s

 

[Levi]

The lust I have for my wife of nearly 30 years remains lust. Spin it or glorify it however you will. I get along with my personal demons on this matter but I also understand from whence it comes. This does not mean that I do not also deeply love her as well.

Oh man I've read enough and I wont converse with you over this topic any further.


There is a good book by C.J. Lewis called mere Christianity, I would highly recommend picking it up. Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis

In this book he deals with being able to distinguish between what God meant for good and what Satan has twisted for evil.

If you are going to love your wife properly then I highly, highly suggest reading it.

Having feelings of guilt about your 'legal' and sinless feelings and desires toward your wife is not healthy and requires healing.

 

[Levi]

Hi Levi

This is the most balanced post on the subject that I've read so far, and I don't quite understand why Smaller has gone off the deep end at your presentation. It seems perfectly logical and reasonable to me.



I don't think this quote is correct. If it is, I've never seen it. Is this what you have in mind?

Ex 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

Not really , its more like: Romans 5:12

"12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned"

It's generational sin, Jesus backs up this fact and confirms his position here: John 5

" 19Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. "


My major point is that Jesus was and is sinless. That has ramifications to the exact nature of His flesh it was only 'like ours' it was not 'as ours' (likeness as opposed to image)

Romans 8:3



3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:


If Jesus had a human father the sin of Adam would have made him dead in sin from the start and he could not have been sinless. The blood comes from the father.

Men are born into a sinful nature, Jesus was not, He never sinned once He was without blemish Just as Adam was in the garden, So to was Jesus in the world as a human being but without sin.

Um, no ... He is the LAST Adam. 1 Cor 15.45

verse 47: "The first Adam, made of earth, came from the earth; the second Adam came from heaven"

So in effect He is the second Adam and also the last Adam.

I might have used the word intending instead of wanting there.

I would say wanting is sufficient.

 

[Asyncritus]

Smaller

I find your posts very disturbing indeed. I won't go any further than that, as I should, but disturbing is serious enough.

Imagine you are Adam.

God says to you: this is your 'wife'.

He also says 'be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth'. That sounds like a lot of sex to me! Fill the earth?

Now are you going to tell God, Look, I'm sorry, but what you're telling me to do is quite wrong, and you really ought to know better than that! I know better than you, and I'm telling you, THAT'S WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!

Is that a fair representation of what you would say?

 

[Levi]

Man will be forgiven. The devil will not be forgiven.

s

"And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven"

What does it mean whem a man continually rejects the attempted workings of the Holy Spirit upon him, what does it mean when a man despises and rejects that which is of Him on High?

What does it mean when a man calls good evil and evil good?

and continues to do so over and over again without repentance?

What does it mean when a man hands his soul over to Satan and dies in his sin?

The mystery of iniquity! There are two bodies at work in humanity.

Your doctrine is not sound.

 

[smaller]

Oh man I've read enough and I wont converse with you over this topic any further.


There is a good book by C.J. Lewis called mere Christianity, I would highly recommend picking it up. Mere Christianity by C. S. Lewis

In this book he deals with being able to distinguish between what God meant for good and what Satan has twisted for evil.

If you are going to love your wife properly then I highly, highly suggest reading it.

Having feelings of guilt about your 'legal' and sinless feelings and desires toward your wife is not healthy and requires healing.

Having feelings of guilt? lol

All sin. All are guilty.

There is no other angle when it comes to dodging SIN.

That still doesn't mean that God in Christ doesn't love us.

s

 

[smaller]

"And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven"

What does it mean whem a man continually rejects the attempted workings of the Holy Spirit upon him, what does it mean when a man despises and rejects that which is of Him on High?

Why are you discounting the workings of the tempter in these matters and only looking at, blaming and accusing the blind? What book are you reading?

Just as the tempter is involved in every action of sin inclusive of lust, so it is with unbelief, which is also a sin.

But to discount the operations of the tempter in sin when applied personally and when applied to other people when the 'god of this world' sits smack in the middle of every equation of sin is very bad theological methodology.

What does it mean when a man calls good evil and evil good?

Depends on who is talking eh?

and continues to do so over and over again without repentance?

When anyone repents evil present with 'all' does not. What is again your point other than to bypass scriptural presentation.

The problem of sin hasn't changed. It is an internal matter within the 'body/temple' of every individual and that problem is the tempter, not the person. Since 'all' have succumbed and our victory was gained by God in Christ, not us, we learn to appreciate our advantage and understand the difference between good thoughts from above and bad ones from an entity(s) that are not us, but are evil and act accordingly. This is the presentation of the Gospel.

You again are welcome to bypass the obvious other party. I can't logically or reasonably do that on a sciptural basis. My legitimate claim in the matter of lust, or of any sin is that the tempter is and remains involved with the sins of 'all,' saved or unsaved and that those sins extend even to the merest inkling of sin in thought for which there is no excuses available to the tempter and no forgiveness available.

The charade is within the hearts of believers who do not acknowledge this truth/fact. They are in fact posers and are not forthright about the tempter in their own minds.

We have had what? Several posts already and you have yet to admit to a single intrusive sin thought by the tempter. What's up with that?

What does it mean when a man hands his soul over to Satan and dies in his sin?

The fact of evil present remains with everyone, believer or unbeliever, and it is evidenced by sin thoughts of the tempter. Some believers know it and speak honestly about it. Some can not because of that same working in them.

The mystery of iniquity! There are two bodies at work in humanity.

Your doctrine is not sound.

Jesus was abundantly clear on these matters. Paul was abundantly clear on these matters. John was abundantly clear on these matters. They put it all in writing for us to reflect upon. I take my facts from the Word, not from people who ignore same when it comes to personal application.

I understand my current condition and also more importantly the Divine Love that God in Christ has given me.

This I share. I am not required to be dishonest about this subject.

enjoy!

smaller

 

[smaller]

Smaller

I find your posts very disturbing indeed. I won't go any further than that, as I should, but disturbing is serious enough.

You are welcome to glorify sexual activity in thought, word or deed as non-lust involved or provoked and ignore the role of the tempter in these matters. I don't see it that way whatsoever because I know better.

Any in this thread who excuse lustful thoughts and do not link them to the tempter and do not call that activity for what it is, sin, are in fact deceived in mind. If you want to isolate your legitimate marriage activity from the equation, fine. But those who say nothing else transpires with them in mind with other women or call that natural are again simply deceived in mind and are not speaking truthfully imho.

Imagine you are Adam.

God says to you: this is your 'wife'.

He also says 'be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth'. That sounds like a lot of sex to me! Fill the earth?

You miss again a very very large component to that blessing. The instant God Speaks any Word to anyone this is what happens immediately:

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

This is a Divine Principle. It happened in the Garden with Adam and Eve. From that point forward it is fruitless to view either of them as alone, as the tempter surely entered their minds. This fact was evidenced by Gods Delivery of the first Law, 'do not eat' and anyone who knows their scripture also knows that the LAW is for the lawless. So lawlessness was already 'with' Adam immediately after the blessing from God. That lawless one is the tempter who entered his mind exactly as JESUS taught above, and deceived his 'inner man' Eve who was yet within Adam at the time of blessing.

Now are you going to tell God, Look, I'm sorry, but what you're telling me to do is quite wrong, and you really ought to know better than that! I know better than you, and I'm telling you, THAT'S WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!

You are welcome to view the activity of Adam, Eve or any other person since as apart from the activity of the tempter in mind. I don't see it that way because of the teachings of the Gospels and the Apostles on these matters. As such I view no person as simply 'them' and 'them alone.'

Is that a fair representation of what you would say?

I don't think you get the picture at all quite frankly.

s

 

[Asyncritus]

You are welcome to glorify sexual activity in thought, word or deed as non-lust involved or provoked and ignore the role of the tempter in these matters. I don't see it that way whatsoever because I know better.

As I thought. You DO know better than God.

You miss again a very very large component to that blessing. The instant God Speaks any Word to anyone this is what happens immediately:

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Really, Smaller, don't you read anything but the bits that appeal to your theory?

15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; and when they have heard, straightway cometh Satan, and taketh away the word which hath been sown in them.

is only a part of the whole. What do you think about:

20 And those are they that were sown upon the good ground; such as hear the word, and accept it, and bear fruit, thirtyfold, and sixtyfold, and a hundredfold.

Notice, bearing fruit implies or includes sexual activity, because:

Ps 127:3 Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

Believing children of believers are a big part of the 'fruit' in the parable. Do you agree?

This is a Divine Principle. It happened in the Garden with Adam and Eve. From that point forward it is fruitless to view either of them as alone, as the tempter surely entered their minds. This fact was evidenced by Gods Delivery of the first Law, 'do not eat' and anyone who knows their scripture also knows that the LAW is for the lawless. So lawlessness was already 'with' Adam immediately after the blessing from God. That lawless one is the tempter who entered his mind exactly as JESUS taught above, and deceived his 'inner man' Eve who was yet within Adam at the time of blessing.

You haven't answered my question, Smaller, so I'll break it down a bit more.

1 Did GOD say to Adam and Eve: Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth? Yes/No/Maybe

2 Is that a command or not? Yes/No/Maybe

3 Does it imply sexual activity and plenty of it? Yes/No/Maybe

4 Why did He say so?

5 If it was a command, would they have been disobedient if Adam said to God, Hey, wait! This is WRONG,WRONG,WRONG! I'm not even going to think about it? Yes/ No/ Maybe

Try and answer the questions if you can. I've numbered them for you.

 

[smaller]

As I thought. You DO know better than God.

Really, Smaller, don't you read anything but the bits that appeal to your theory?

15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; and when they have heard, straightway cometh Satan, and taketh away the word which hath been sown in them.

is only a part of the whole. What do you think about:

20 And those are they that were sown upon the good ground; such as hear the word, and accept it, and bear fruit, thirtyfold, and sixtyfold, and a hundredfold.

Notice, bearing fruit implies or includes sexual activity, because:

Ps 127:3 Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

Believing children of believers are a big part of the 'fruit' in the parable. Do you agree?

The most obvious point in the matter remains. All sin at a minimum of 'in mind' by the actions of the tempter's insertion of sin thought or theft that transpires within their hearts/minds by that same tempter, believer or unbeliever. To say otherwise remains disingenuous.

This is the point of our exercise in scriptural fact.

You may claim personal exemption to this fact. I can not honestly make that claim because of Word teachings on this matter.

You haven't answered my question, Smaller, so I'll break it down a bit more.

1 Did GOD say to Adam and Eve: Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth? Yes/No/Maybe

Did the tempter enter Adam as Jesus taught? Why then exclude that fact from that point forward involving fruitful multiplication?

The fact is that the nearly immediate produce of both Adam and Eve was not fruitful whatsoever, but the produce of SIN sprang up in them both and has been passed down ever since.

Sin is a progression from thought to word to deed and is provoked by the tempter who is involved with it all.

Any casual glance at our world today should produce an accurate view of these matters, as it has ever been.

I do not deny that flowers rise from the depths of dark soil. Therefore, God assuredly uses that darkness for Godly Produce and Eternal Reapings.

You entire question line remains entirely void of the other party to every person and that is the tempter. When you insert the facts into your question line they would become much more accurate and vastly different.

It is never just a question of man and man alone. That is an illogical proposition, period.

Why? Because 'all' sin in thought, word and deed and all sin remains demonic. It is impossible to extract any person from this equation and make them stand alone.

enjoy!

s

 

[Asyncritus]

C'mon Smaller

Answer the questions and stop dodging them. They're important. Here they are again:

1 Did GOD say to Adam and Eve: Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth? Yes/No/Maybe

2 Is that a command or not? Yes/No/Maybe

3 Does it imply sexual activity and plenty of it? Yes/No/Maybe

4 Why did He say so?

5 If it was a command, would they have been disobedient if Adam said to God, Hey, wait! This is WRONG,WRONG,WRONG! I'm not even going to think about it? Yes/ No/ Maybe

Try and answer the questions if you can. I've numbered them for you.

 

[smaller]

C'mon Smaller

Answer the questions and stop dodging them. They're important. Here they are again:

1 Did GOD say to Adam and Eve: Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth? Yes/No/Maybe

Actually it was only spoken to Adam. See?

Genesis 5:2
Male and female created hethem; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Eve was presumably still 'within' Adam at that point. Your insistence that this has something to do with the sex act is somewhat skewed. Fruitful multiplication in Gods Terms is not required to that association.

Here is Gods Fruit:

Gal. 5:
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance:

See a sex act in there somewhere? Please point it out if so. Were it as you say, God could have simply stated it as GO HAVE physical sex.

And the prior observation remains, that it was not only just Adam who 'reacted' to Gods Blessing. The tempter was also put into action and is shown to be active right there in the Garden resisting Gods Words from the beginning, just as Jesus taught and cited to you prior.

That activity transpired 'also' within Adam.

2 Is that a command or not? Yes/No/Maybe

Get all the players on the stage and you'd have a complete question. I do not doubt the blessings unto Adam. Adam was Gods son.

3 Does it imply sexual activity and plenty of it? Yes/No/Maybe

It says ZERO about sexual activity. Your vision is by implying only but that is not stated and not required to be inserted when properly viewing fruit.

Without the entrance of the lawless one into this stage who knows what type of 'fruit' would have been produced.

We do know this about them however and the fact of Adams planting:

1 Cor. 15:
21 For since by man came death

We also know this about Adam from the same chapter:

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Do you see that? Adam was made a 'natural' man.

Yes, Adam was a 'natural' man in a body of DUST...a body/mind subject to all of the above. I could also add to the above disobedience from N.T. text.


You are free to deny the obvious. Again, I can not.


No, go find your 'fruit' from a 'natural' man...


There is none to be found. The natural man can not please God.


1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Spin it as you please from those facts. I see the natural man Adam through how the word describes same from Paul.

4 Why did He say so?

Your insistence to insert and imply sexual activity is not only not required, it is rather bizarre because it just is not there. Sorry.

In addition your likewise insistence to totally ignore the role of the tempter also makes your position void of that fact.

5 If it was a command, would they have been disobedient if Adam said to God, Hey, wait! This is WRONG,WRONG,WRONG! I'm not even going to think about it? Yes/ No/ Maybe

You are off on a tangent of implied beliefs that are not written of, period.

enjoy!

s

 

[Asyncritus]

Actually it was only spoken to Adam. See?

If you insist. But I find it difficult to imagine how he could 'multiply and fill the earth' without Eve being a party to it.

But you've agreed that it WAS spoken - at least to Adam.

Now, was it a command or not?

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+5:2&version=9

Your insistence that this has something to do with the sex act is somewhat skewed. Fruitful multiplication in Gods Terms is not required to that association.

How do you understand 'multiply'?

Here is Gods Fruit:

Gal. 5:
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance:

That has nothing to do with the commandment in Genesis to be fruitful and MULTIPLY and FILL the earth.

How do you think Adam and Eve could obey that commandment?

See a sex act in there somewhere? Please point it out if so. Were it as you say, God could have simply stated it as GO HAVE physical sex.

He did. Isn't it obvious? How were they to be FRUITFUL and MULTIPLY to such an extent that their children would FILL the earth?

The rest of this is somewhat irrelevant, so I've deleted it leaving this:

Your insistence to insert and imply sexual activity is not only not required, it is rather bizarre because it just is not there. Sorry.

So I again ask you: How were they to be FRUITFUL and MULTIPLY to such an extent that their children would FILL the earth?

 

[Levi]

Having feelings of guilt? lol

All sin. All are guilty.

There is no other angle when it comes to dodging SIN.

That still doesn't mean that God in Christ doesn't love us.

s

Perhaps you should apologize to your wife for regarding your covenanted desires in marriage to her of nearly thirty years as 'sin'

And then you might do well to bow before God and seek His forgiveness for profaning His institution of Holy matrimony. And further still you should seek forgiveness for leading others into your snare.

"Do not call unclean what I have have called clean"
"whoa unto the generation that calls good evil and evil good"

You are preaching a gospel of 'do what you want' there are no consequences and you guise it behind false piety of knowing what sin is.

You have no respect for God's laws that state what behavior is sin and what is good behavior that is Holy and acceptable to Him, as a result you profane what is Holy.

You sir are looking to be an apostate. You have a 'form of Godliness but you deny its true power'

Regeneration through the Lord Jesus Christ by which a man is no longer bound to follow the desires of the flesh.

If Satan was blamable for 'absolutely everything' then God would not have cast Adam and eve from the garden. Your doctrine is crooked right from the start.

There will be an accounting for all men.

 

[smaller]

If you insist. But I find it difficult to imagine how he could 'multiply and fill the earth' without Eve being a party to it.

Filling the earth with fruit and filling same with natural sinning children may not be in accord with fruit of the Spiritual Kind...understand?

But you've agreed that it WAS spoken - at least to Adam.

I've maintained that it was spoken to Adam with Eve still within him.

Now, was it a command or not?

No, it was a BLESSING. Blessings come from God particularly of the Spiritual kind.

How do you understand 'multiply'?

I understand the multiplication to be of FRUITful linked by AND.

That has nothing to do with the commandment in Genesis to be fruitful and MULTIPLY and FILL the earth.

The term in the KJV is 'replenish' which includes an abundance of meanings, and none of them 'sexual reproduction' that I can see:

Definition:

1. to fill, be full
   1. (Qal)
      1. to be full
         1. fulness, abundance (participle)
         2. to be full, be accomplished, be ended
      2. to consecrate, fill the hand
   2. (Niphal)
      1. to be filled, be armed, be satisfied
      2. to be accomplished, be ended
   3. (Piel)
      1. to fill
      2. to satisfy
      3. to fulfil, accomplish, complete
      4. to confirm
   4. (Pual) to be filled
   5. (Hithpael) to mass themselves against

How do you think Adam and Eve could obey that commandment?

Numerous ways apart from sexual activity...just read the bold above. God could have also said HAVE CHILDREN and made it much simpler, but of course that does not EXIST therein either.

He did. Isn't it obvious? How were they to be FRUITFUL and MULTIPLY to such an extent that their children would FILL the earth?

Again, you are straining to find sexual activity. It is simply not there either by the act or by a simple statement to have children. Either of those would confirm your view, but because it is not there and does not exist...you must force that into the position. I do not read that way. It says what it says and may mean many things other than what you imply.

The rest of this is somewhat irrelevant, so I've deleted it leaving this:

You've more than likely deleted the 'facts about Adam' because again they don't fit your implying.

Again, you are welcome to dodge and ignore open statements of fact regarding ADAM, the TEMPTER and LUST.

enjoy your fantasy!

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Perhaps you should apologize to your wife for regarding your covenanted desires in marriage to her of nearly thirty years as 'sin'

And you are welcome to say the tempter never puts adulterous thoughts into your mind and you will certainly never admit that fact to yourself, yet alone by speaking that simple truth to your wife or other believers.

I admit to this happening in my mind...and I know it's source.

Which of us is speaking truthfully?

I have no need to glorify physical sex, period. The true meaning of the 'marriage' is a spiritual joining of two people dwelling together as one.

And then you might do well to bow before God and seek His forgiveness for profaning His institution of Holy matrimony. And further still you should seek forgiveness for leading others into your snare.

Snare? You mean my refusal to glorify physical sex? lol!

Get real with responses to the facts posted and maybe we can have a legitimate conversation about lust and the tempters role within the mind.

You are preaching a gospel of 'do what you want' there are no consequences and you guise it behind false piety of knowing what sin is.

I've made no such statements, sorry. No need to lie about what I never said.

You have no respect for God's laws that state what behavior is sin and what is good behavior that is Holy and acceptable to Him, as a result you profane what is Holy.

I have no requirement to lie on behalf of the tempter operating in anyones mind including my own. It's all sin.

You sir are looking to be an apostate. You have a 'form of Godliness but you deny its true power'

True power to some may include truthful speakings on these matters eh?

Regeneration through the Lord Jesus Christ by which a man is no longer bound to follow the desires of the flesh.

I take Paul's statement in Romans 7:21 to be a fact for everyone except God in Christ. Do with that fact and that law what you will, which seems to be avoid the fact and ignore the fact. I just can't do that and claim legitimacy. Go read it and see if that law applies to YOU?

If Satan was blamable for 'absolutely everything' then God would not have cast Adam and eve from the garden. Your doctrine is crooked right from the start.

And I can not eradicate the fact that the presence of the tempter is clearly shown by Jesus to be 'within.' The seducer was not a physical snake hanging in a physical tree. It is the power of the anti-Christ operational within and DOING EVIL therein...end of conversation.

There will be an accounting for all men.

Never said otherwise.

s

 

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And you are welcome to say the tempter never puts adulterous thoughts into your mind and you will certainly never admit that fact to yourself, yet alone by speaking that simple truth to your wife or other believers.

I admit to this happening in my mind...and I know it's source.

Which of us is speaking truthfully?


s

This is how we know you're teaching is error, you change your tune and you refuse to listen.

At what point have we gone from the 'lust' toward your wife that you portray as sin, moving over to adulterous thoughts about other woman?

Nobody in this thread has ever said that they are not tempted by thoughts, not I nor anyone I have seen post here so far?

Perhaps you need to review the 'source' of these thoughts that you are having so that when you pray you may seek forgiveness and deliverance from this snare of the fallen man.

Then Satan wouldn't have such a playground in your mind to swing around in

"He roams around like a hungry lion looking for someone to devour"

Not all men are going to stand before Christ and escape the second death small!

There are two body's at work in creation and there are two natures at work in the redeemed. Which ever one you feed and nurture is the one that will win out at the end of the day.

We do not have to live according to the desires of the fallen nature. We can be Holy and set aside.

Peter sat in a seat of judgment and spoke, when he did so a man fell dead, he did it again and a woman fell dead.

Because he was living according to the will of the Spirit, he knew what God's will was and power flowed out through him just as it did through Jesus.

"and I say unto you there are those that are coming after me that will do even greater things than I have done"

Heal the sick, raise the dead, feed the hungry, cloth the poor, tear open the very fabric of the sinful nature and expose the lies therein.

We do not have to live according to the nature of the flesh, we can say:

"get behind me Satan!"

 

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This is how we know you're teaching is error, you change your tune and you refuse to listen.

There is no changing the facts here. They are already set in writing:

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

If you figure out a way to extract the devil from the equations of sin, let me know. Of course you'll have to eliminate 1 John 3:8 to do so and that ain't happening.

At what point have we gone from the 'lust' toward your wife that you portray as sin, moving over to adulterous thoughts about other woman?

There mere thought remains a sin, period. Jesus showed us this fact clearly as well. You may certainly deny it happens in your mind.

Matthew 5:28
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

We know adultery is a sin. We also know that the devil, the tempter is involved with all sin in whatever form it takes. Do with the facts what you will. They don't change.

Nobody in this thread has ever said that they are not tempted by thoughts, not I nor anyone I have seen post here so far?

And you would also admit the involvement of the tempter in that? This is the 'fact' I'm waiting to hear truthfully cross your lips. If and when you do, then you will be speaking truth on this matter.

But to excuse these types of sin is to excuse the tempter in his role, and that is flat out wrong.

Perhaps you need to review the 'source' of these thoughts that you are having so that when you pray you may seek forgiveness and deliverance from this snare of the fallen man.

I am very familiar with the tempters role to blame and accuse only mankind and cover his own role within peoples minds. That is in fact your reflection at this point...and

you just admitted your own tempting thoughts. What makes yours any better than anyone else's?

The fact remains that the tempter enters the minds and hearts and steals which is a sin, lies which is a sin and tempts in thought which is also a sin.

How much of this activity are you going to 'excuse' the devil for? For me it is exactly zero. There is no such measure available to that working.

Then Satan wouldn't have such a playground in your mind to swing around in

Claiming immunity now are you?

lol

Any believer engaged will experience these facts:

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

These are largely internal matters of the heart and mind and those powers are engaged therein.

"He roams around like a hungry lion looking for someone to devour"

Not all men are going to stand before Christ and escape the second death small!

Never said otherwise. Our understandings of whom 'men' are however will depart company.

Lucifer was called 'a man.' Satan is 'the man of sin.' Which 'men' do you speak of? Only those you see with flesh eyes more than likely.

Some 'men' are not seen openly.

There are two body's at work in creation and there are two natures at work in the redeemed. Which ever one you feed and nurture is the one that will win out at the end of the day.

Yes, I'm familiar with that indian folklore. It's not the Gospel.

If you missed the fact that Satan and devils were revealed to be IN MAN on nearly every page of the Gospels I'd suggest a closer read.

We do not have to live according to the desires of the fallen nature. We can be Holy and set aside.

This was a fact for Paul. It has been cited to you many times. If it was a fact for Paul it is also a fact for you and I:

Romans 7:21
I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

If you truthfully acknowledge the tempter in mind, then you'll understand 'who' was the evil present with Paul and that against which he continually battled. That fact never changed for Paul nor is it changing for anyone else in this present world, believer or unbeliever.

Peter sat in a seat of judgment and spoke, when he did so a man fell dead, he did it again and a woman fell dead.

Peter saw the facts quite clearly as well. Perhaps you missed the other party AGAIN?!

Acts 5:3
But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

The death sentence for Satan is still on hold. God can take out any 'tool' of the devil and we are ALL taken out in death because of the presence of SIN.

Romans 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is lifebecause of righteousness.

Note IS. IS turns into reality of death for ALL in the flesh.

Because he was living according to the will of the Spirit, he knew what God's will was and power flowed out through him just as it did through Jesus.

"and I say unto you there are those that are coming after me that will do even greater things than I have done"

Heal the sick, raise the dead, feed the hungry, cloth the poor, tear open the very fabric of the sinful nature and expose the lies therein.

We do not have to live according to the nature of the flesh, we can say:

"get behind me Satan!"

You can make any claim of immunity of intrusion into your thoughts, deny they are of Satan, the tempter and smooth that fact however you will.

This fact also remains:

1 John 1:
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Have is a present tense application.

enjoy!

s