Mark 16:9

[whitecloud]

A second reference in Gods word is when Paul told us that the saints laid aside for gatherings on the first day of the week.

Most of us are surely questioning why you need an auther other than God to affirm that Saturday is the Sabboth and Sunday is the day of new beginnings. If you are stumbling at something, simply ask of God, who is the provider and giver of our Salvation.

Beyond which day He rose, is the experiance of the Sabboth Rest from God. Every day is a holy day unto us who have ceast from our own works and walk in His word and trust Jesus for our all.
Ask of God and He will give to you without measure . Yet we must seek Him as hidden treasure. No one can answer a question that someone doesn't want an answer for. Ever remembering we seek that which can not be bought with gold or sold for gain. We seek to give and that makes all the difference. God so loved the world, He GAVE His only begotten, may He live and dwell in you richly, that He might also give you unto the world, who needs a light in the darkness.

He is found amongst the nations that seek Him not, that they who call upon Him may be called the children of the living God.

Look at it this way will ya. It has been reported and published that the Jewish sect of Christians worship on the day it was reported that The one called Jesus whom the Jews and Romans crusified, was found missing from His Grave.

Paul more than likely went to the Jewish Temples on the Sabboth and worshipped in Christian fashion on Sundays as well. That is unless he was asked to leave Temple worship. Remember Paul was acursed from Israel for Christs sake and may have worshipped mostly on Sundays anyway.

If that does not help, prayer usually is needed.

 

[RND]

BTW whitecloud, it's spelled sabbath with an "a" not and "o." :D

A second reference in Gods word is when Paul told us that the saints laid aside for gatherings on the first day of the week.

“Concerning the collection for the saints†(vs. 1). The context and other Scriptures reveal that Paul was raising a “collection†for needy believers in “Jerusalem†(vs. 3) during a time of famine. See Acts 11:27-30; Romans 15:25-26. On “the first day of the week†(Sunday), “let every one†(individually), “lay by him†(Lit. Greek “at homeâ€Â), “in store†(in storage), a certain amount. The Greek “by him in store†reveals that this was to be done in their homes. The first day of the week was ideal for the Corinthian believers to look back on the previous week, examine their finances, and set aside a weekly contribution. This would then be gathered and made ready for Paul, “that there be no gatherings when I come.†Paul was going to pass through Corinth. He wanted the money ready for him to pick up. This was an emergency situation and not their regular practice, for Paul had to give them “orders†to do what they were not normally doing (vs. 1). Paul said nothing here about a church service or the resurrection.

Most of us are surely questioning why you need an auther other than God to affirm that Saturday is the Sabboth and Sunday is the day of new beginnings. If you are stumbling at something, simply ask of God, who is the provider and giver of our Salvation.

Amen.

Beyond which day He rose, is the experiance of the Sabboth Rest from God. Every day is a holy day unto us who have ceast from our own works and walk in His word and trust Jesus for our all.
Ask of God and He will give to you without measure . Yet we must seek Him as hidden treasure. No one can answer a question that someone doesn't want an answer for. Ever remembering we seek that which can not be bought with gold or sold for gain. We seek to give and that makes all the difference. God so loved the world, He GAVE His only begotten, may He live and dwell in you richly, that He might also give you unto the world, who needs a light in the darkness.

That is so true and yet there "remains a sabbath rest."

He is found amongst the nations that seek Him not, that they who call upon Him may be called the children of the living God.

The nation of Israel. Jer 31:31

Look at it this way will ya. It has been reported and published that the Jewish sect of Christians worship on the day it was reported that The one called Jesus whom the Jews and Romans crusified, was found missing from His Grave.

Just not in the Bible.

Paul more than likely went to the Jewish Temples on the Sabboth and worshipped in Christian fashion on Sundays as well.

And yet, when on trial by the Jews it was never brought up that Paul violated the Mosaic law.

That is unless he was asked to leave Temple worship. Remember Paul was acursed from Israel for Christs sake and may have worshipped mostly on Sundays anyway.

Pure speculation that the Bible cannot confirm.

If that does not help, prayer usually is needed.

Indeed.

 

[rstrats]

whitecloud,

re: “Most of us are surely questioning why you need an author...â€Â

I gave the reason in an earlier post, but let me repeat it:

A poster on another forum, the topic of which was questioning the authenticity of the last 12 verses in the book of Mark, wrote that it doesn’t really matter because there is no doctrinal teaching in Mark 16:9-20 that cannot be proved elsewhere in agreed Scripture.


I made the mistake of sticking my nose into the discussion by pointing out that actually there is a statement in verse 9, as the KJV has it, that is used for a doctrinal teaching that is to be found nowhere else in Scripture. As the KJV translates it, it is the only place that puts the resurrection on the first day of the week. I then suggested that whenever the discussion of seventh day observance versus first day observance comes up, first day proponents usually use the idea of a first day resurrection to justify the change, and when questioned about the day of resurrection, quote Mark 16:9. The poster came back with: “Quote a published author who has done that.†- I have not yet been able to come up with one, hence my query.

 

[RND]

Isn't it interesting rstrats that the word for "week" in Mark 16:9 is sabbaton? Somehow lots of people miss that, just as they do when they argue that Acts 20:7 is proof that the sabbath is now Sunday.

anastaV de prwi prwth sabbatou efanh prwton maria th magdalhnh af hV ekbeblhkei epta daimonia

Mar 16:9 Now when [Jesus] was risen early the first [day] of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.

 

[rstrats]

RND,

re: “Isn't it interesting that the word for ‘week’ in Mark 16:9 is sabbaton? Somehow lots of people miss that...â€Â


I’m afraid that I am a bit dense here with regard to your point. Could you please elaborate?

 

[RND]

RND,

re: “Isn't it interesting that the word for ‘week’ in Mark 16:9 is sabbaton? Somehow lots of people miss that...â€Â


I’m afraid that I am a bit dense here with regard to your point. Could you please elaborate?

Sure. In Mark 16:9 the word "week" is actually the Greek word sabbaton - the sabbath. That taken into consideration it should be obvious that Jesus didn't necessarily rise on the "first day of the week" but on the "first day after the sabbath." Now, are both the same? Yes. Do both carry the same meaning? That depends on whether one recognizes the sabbath I suppose. More importantly I think is it gives clearer meaning as to when Jesus actually rose. After the sabbath. After His rest in the tomb.

 

[rstrats]

RND,

I guess I’m just not smart enough to understand what you’re getting at.

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

by RND on Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:57 am

rstrats wrote:
RND,

re: “Isn't it interesting that the word for ‘week’ in Mark 16:9 is sabbaton? Somehow lots of people miss that...â€Â


I’m afraid that I am a bit dense here with regard to your point. Could you please elaborate?

Sure. In Mark 16:9 the word "week" is actually the Greek word sabbaton - the sabbath. That taken into consideration it should be obvious that Jesus didn't necessarily rise on the "first day of the week" but on the "first day after the sabbath." Now, are both the same? Yes. Do both carry the same meaning? That depends on whether one recognizes the sabbath I suppose. More importantly I think is it gives clearer meaning as to when Jesus actually rose. After the sabbath. After His rest in the tomb.

GE:
'Sabbaton' in Mk16:9 means 'week', and it says "On the First Day of the week, early" - there's no problem with that!

But the trouble starts with people making of the Participle, 'anastas' - 'risen'/'as the Risen One', a Verb, and say it means, "He rose", or

people making it a PRESENT Participle, and say it means, 'rising' -- 'Rising He appeared' -- which is making it a LIE because Jesus simply did NOT appear as He was rising : Nobody ever saw Him rising from the dead.

Therefore, On Sunday morning early, "Jesus, having been raised from the dead, and risen, first of all appeared to Mary ..."

ALL, problems, SOLVED once for all: Jesus did NOT rise on Sunday morning. He was raised from the dead, Mt28:1, "Late Sabbath's mid-afternoon BEFORE / TENDING / TOWARDS the First Day of the week".

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Gerhard Ebersohn,

Although you didn’t address your post to anyone, I’m going to take a guess that it is intended for me.

You ask if I can read. Indeed I can, and I do not read where Matthew 28:1 says anything about a resurrection, much less the timing of one.

“Now after the Sabbath, as the day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.â€Â

GE:
“Now after the Sabbath, as the day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tombâ€Â, is a FALSE 'translation' of the CORRECT, "LATE SABBATH DAY'S MID-AFTERNOON AGAINST the First Day of the week ..." --- correct and literal of "opse sabbatohn tehi epifohskousehi eis mian".

Next, the women "SET OFF TO SEE / GO HAVE A LOOK". It can be categorically stated the women did NOT 'arrive', because they then would have seen what then happened. (That, judging by the way you see, you obviously too will be unable to see.) But it is evident from all the rest of all the Gospels, the two women had seen NOTHING, and it is evident from Mt28:5 the women were TOLD these things that indeed had happened ---- but what you say you do not read of in this Scripture. Well, I unfortunately cannot help you with that.

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Paidion:
"The Greek phrase "μια ÄÉν ÃαββαÄÉν" refers to the first (day) of the week in every context in the New Testament, and ALL transators of whom I am aware (except the Concordant Translation), so translate it.

It becomes obvious that this is the meaning when one considers Matthew 28:1"

GE:
Beg to differ on some important DETAIL:

In Mk16:9 we find 'prohtehi sabbatou' Dative, "ON the First Day of the week". (The Singular is of no consequence) --- it tells of the day "of the week", upon which Jesus "appeared to Mary".

In Mt28:1 though, we do NOT find the Dative, but the Accusative, "eis MIAN sabbatohn", "TOWARDS / AGAINST / BEFORE the First Day of the week". (Again, the Plural, sabbatohn, is incidental and of no consequence; it simply means 'week - of the week''.)

What we do find besides this Accusative of the First Day, is the Genitive of the Sabbath Day! And that is what in the phrase gives the TIME of the event and events that "On the Sabbath" occurred; or, that were "OF the Sabbath's" occurrence -- which of course entailed Jesus' resurrection, which 'strats' is unable to read in there, but without which, the whole passage would be absolutely senseless and worthless.

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Does anyone know of a published author who has used Mark 16:9 to support a first day of the week resurrection which in turn they used - at least in part - to justify the establishment of the first day of the week as a special day for rest and worship?

GE:
I have a library full!! I don't know of a 'pro-Sunday-worship' book --- 'theology', 'dogmatics', call them what you want --- that does not make use of Mk16:9 to support Christian Sunday-worship.

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

St Francis:
"II. THE LORD'S DAY

"This is the day which the LORD has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it."103

The day of the Resurrection: the new creation

2174 Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."104 Because it is the "first day," the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath,105 it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:

"We all gather on the day of the sun, for it is the first day [after the Jewish sabbath, but also the first day] when God, separating matter from darkness, made the world; and on this same day Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead."106

Sunday- fulfillment of the sabbath

2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:107

"Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death."108

2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people."


GE:
Everything above here stated belongs to the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD your God, and has been stolen from it, and has been given to the Usurper, lord Sunday, all through this false claim: Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

RND:
" More importantly I think is it gives clearer meaning as to when Jesus actually rose. After the sabbath. After His rest in the tomb."

GE:
Jesus did not rise "after the Sabbath" You will find this only in translations made since the translators became aware of the truth of the older translations that used to have "In", or "On the Sabbath". They feared the consequences for their Sunday-dogma, but had no fear for the Word of God, so nonchalantly just changed the Word of God, and 'translated' to, "After the Sabbath ... on the First Day" - an impossibility for the Greek, 'opse sabbatohn tehi epifohskousehi eis mian s.'
It is horrific!

But what is far more horrific, is that you say that Jesus rested in the tomb!! Death is the wages of SIN; how dare you make it Jesus' 'rest'? No! Jesus' 'rest' was to have been raised FROM death and to have "Entered Into His Own Rest As God In His Own" VICTOR, through resurrection from the dead. "THEN", was it, that God found and founded His Sabbath's Rest, "AS HE RAISED CHRIST FROM THE DEAD ... BY THE EXCEEDING GREATNESS OF HIS POWER WHICH HE WORKED IN CHRIST".

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

A second reference in Gods word is when Paul told us that the saints laid aside for gatherings on the first day of the week.

Most of us are surely questioning why you need an auther other than God to affirm that Saturday is the Sabboth and Sunday is the day of new beginnings. If you are stumbling at something, simply ask of God, who is the provider and giver of our Salvation.

Beyond which day He rose, is the experiance of the Sabboth Rest from God. Every day is a holy day unto us who have ceast from our own works and walk in His word and trust Jesus for our all.
Ask of God and He will give to you without measure . Yet we must seek Him as hidden treasure. No one can answer a question that someone doesn't want an answer for. Ever remembering we seek that which can not be bought with gold or sold for gain. We seek to give and that makes all the difference. God so loved the world, He GAVE His only begotten, may He live and dwell in you richly, that He might also give you unto the world, who needs a light in the darkness.

He is found amongst the nations that seek Him not, that they who call upon Him may be called the children of the living God.

Look at it this way will ya. It has been reported and published that the Jewish sect of Christians worship on the day it was reported that The one called Jesus whom the Jews and Romans crusified, was found missing from His Grave.

Paul more than likely went to the Jewish Temples on the Sabboth and worshipped in Christian fashion on Sundays as well. That is unless he was asked to leave Temple worship. Remember Paul was acursed from Israel for Christs sake and may have worshipped mostly on Sundays anyway.

If that does not help, prayer usually is needed.

GE:
whitecloud
“Paul told us that the saints laid aside for gatherings on the first day of the week.â€Â

GE:
So what? Is that really your ‘second best reason’ for “superstitiously to observe†(Gl4:10) and “return backâ€Â, to “days†of pagan origin, purpose and sanctity, expressly judged by the Word of God, “miserable beggarly non-gods†or ‘stoicheiea-deities’ because “Paul told us that the saints laid aside for gatherings on the first day of the weekâ€Â? You think God must find it acceptable and well-pleasing to Himself?

Surely no one should question why God has been the Author of the Seventh Day Sabbath of the Bible. “In itâ€Â, God commanded through Jesus Christ, and through Him commanded in the ultimate Work of His Redemption, the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to make “the Seventh Day, Sabbath of the LORD your Godâ€Â, the ‘Day of New Beginnings’. Already by the first created Sabbath Day, as ever and anon each following, God has “made the Sabbathâ€Â, God’s Day, “My holy dayâ€Â, of “finishing†and “rest†and “blessing†and “sanctity†and “revivingâ€Â. Ask of God the Provider and Giver of our Salvation, why He created and then and thereafter chose and gave the Seventh Day Sabbath ... why He also preserved the Seventh Day for “thus speaking†“to-uswardâ€Â, “through the Sonâ€Â, “in these last days†“when He raised Christ from the deadâ€Â, and why He to this day today every Sabbath Day is making new beginning with His People for whom “a keeping of the Sabbath remains validâ€Â? And here shall be your answer: “Because Jesus had given them rest ... and having entered Himself into His Own Rest, Himself Rested as God in His Ownâ€Â. That is what it is to ‘experience the Sabbath’ Day’s Rest received from God.

But ‘every day is a holy day’ unto those who of own will and self-authority have made their own works the measure and condition of holiness, not only unto themselves, but even unto the days of God’s creation. They ‘walk not in His Word’ nor ‘trust Jesus for all’ things created or commanded.

‘The Jewish sect of Christians’ did not ‘worship on the day it was reported that the One called Jesus whom the Jews and Romans crucified, was found missing from His Grave’. That is your wishful thinking for the sake of your Sunday’s worship.

Paul most definitely went to the Temple and the Synagogues on the Sabbath and ‘worshipped in Christian fashion’ with fellow Christians. That’s a fact! Not once on Sundays. That’s a fact! And you cannot give one instance to the contrary. Challenged!

‘Remember’ all this nonse ‘Paul was asked to leave Temple worship’. It’s not so. ‘Remember’ ‘Paul was accursed from Israel for Christ’s sake’, because He proclaimed Christ in the Temple and in the Synagogues “On the Sabbath as he was accustomed to do†– every time and always, “on the Sabbathâ€Â; there is no mentioned instance where Paul did that, on the First Day of the week not especially, in the case of Acts 20:7!

Have you ever, read Acts, my brother in Jesus Christ, for yourself?

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Does anyone know of a published author who has used Mark 16:9 to support a first day of the week resurrection which in turn they used - at least in part - to justify the establishment of the first day of the week as a special day for rest and worship?

GE:
rstrats, do you believe Jesus was resurrected on the Sabbath (Seventh) Day?

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

unread typo:
"I still don’t understand the problem here. Much ado about nothing. Rest on the Sabbath, and worship on Sunday."

GE:
Where do you find that Commandment in the Bible? Where do you find that Jesus gave us such example? What do you think, is God's Rest but God's Works finished through and in Jesus Christ by the resurrection of Him from the dead?

We should rest and worship on the Seventh Day Sabbath of the LORD your God because it is the Lord's Day - 'Lord', by feat of Triumph over death and principalities of darkness - Col2:12-15, and "Therefore not let yourselves be judged by anyone (of the world) with regard to your eating and drinking of Sabbaths' Feast, whether of month's, or of (weekly) Sabbath's Feast!"

 

[Rick W]

Just curious...
What punishment can we expect if we observe the Sabbath on the wrong day?

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Just curious...
What punishment can we expect if we observe the Sabbath on the wrong day?

GE:
If you 'observe the Sabbath', you cannot 'observe it on the wrong day' - there's only one 'Sabbath Day'.

But you can keep it for the wrong reason or reasons --- then you must face the consequences of 'sabbatising for the sake of sabbitising' (Ignatius) which is legalism, and not "for the Lord's living" or, "according to the Lord's Life" - naturally, by reason of Christ's resurrection from the dead.

So, I say, I believe (and wish to keep) the Sabbath Day of the LORD your God for its being the Lord's Day - kyriakeh hehmera - Day of the Lord's Triumphant Victory through resurrection from the dead. Which is only what the Scriptures teaches from beginning to end.

What punishment is involved if not so followed? You ask God, and you ask yourself; I have peace with that. It is not of my concern or anyone else's. All I know is that no man is justified by the works of the Law. Man is justified by the Law, which, in Jesus Christ, is Jesus Christ.

 

[St Francis]

...then you must face the consequences of 'sabbatising for the sake of sabbitising' (Ignatius) which is legalism....

I would be careful quoting Ignatius. In his letter to the Magnesians, Ignatius said: "those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death." (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110])

 

[rstrats]

Gerhard Ebersöhn

re: “(That, judging by the way you see, you obviously too will be unable to see.) But it is evident from all the rest of all the Gospels, the two women had seen NOTHING, and it is evident from Mt28:5 the women were TOLD these things that indeed had happened ---- but what you say you do not read of in this Scripture.â€Â


I sorry, but Matthew 28 does not say WHEN the resurrection took place.