Mark 16:9

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

rstrats:
"I’m afraid that I can not find where he uses Mark 16:9 to place the resurrection on Sunday. Strangely, though, he does reference Matt 28:1, Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1 and John 20:1, none of which mention a resurrection, much less the timing of it."

GE:
Yes, Bacchiocchi relies on Mt28:1 for everything he argues about inter alia a sunrise reckoning of the day. Bacchiocchi is in every respect confused, to say the least. This little book of his well demonstrates his 'theology' at its worst.

It is a fact no Gospel in its 'passion-naratives' mentions Jesus' resurrection directly. ONLY Mt28:1, directly describes the circumstances and time of its occurrence -- in other words, implies the reality of its happening.

But! Mt28:1 is the ONLY Gospel that tells WHEN Jesus rose from the dead. Mk16:9, does not, nor does any other Gospel or NT book wheresoever.

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

guibox:
"Where in the Greek is 'protos' meant to mean 'first Sabbath'? Where in the original Greek is the term 'sabbata used to denote the first day? Where in Mark is it used except to denote the seventh day Sabbath?"

GE:
I cannot imagine anyone would say 'protos' meant 'first Sabbath', really! 'Prohton' in Mk16:9c, means 'first' in chronological order: Jesus appeared first to Mary -- alone -- before he appeared to any other. "He appeared to Mary first, early on the First day of the week" -- Sunday.

"First day of the week" from "prohtehi sabbatou": "On the first ('day' by Ellipsis).
Note that the singular, 'sabbaton' - Genitive, 'sabbatou' is used in Mk16:9 - not the Plural, 'sabbatohn' as in Mt 28:1.
Then nowhere "in Mark is it used except to denote the seventh day Sabbath".

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

rstrats:
"Does anyone know of a published author who has used Mark 16:9 to support a first day of the week resurrection which in turn they used - at least in part - to justify the establishment of the first day of the week as a special day for rest and worship?"

GE:
Virtually every author that believes in Sunday-sacredness and who has 'published', has "used (Mark 16:9) to justify the establishment of the first day of the week as a special day for rest and worship" -- because of the wrong assumption 'anastas' means 'rose' -- simply. It is the GRAND reason for Sunday-sanctity.
I think the principle of Jesus' resurrection why the day of its occurence should have special meaning for the Church, is sound, and Biblical. The only problem is, Did Jesus rise from the dead on Sunday? Calvin taught differently; and so must have thought differently the translators of the KJV who translated Mt28:1 "In the Sabbath"; and other translations --- all 'old' ones --- "On the Sabbath". Note how the 'new' 'translations' speak of "After the Sabbath"! They must have realised the 'old' versions' implication for their Sunday-tradition!

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

spirit driven:
"Here scripture tells us the first Sabbath day he was raised, correctly translated scripture too word for word Greek into English. "

GE:
Yours is INCORRECT and VERY far from "word for word Greek into English"!!
If it said "the first Sabbath day", it would not have said, "prohtehi sabbatou", but "prohtehi sabbatohi". But now by Greek 'style' or 'linguistics', it actually says, "prohtehi HEMERAI TOU sabbatou" --- by Ellipsis as I said before. The concept 'day' is implied -- unavoidably!

This is a hackneyed 'non-issue' if ever there has been one. Be careful how you advertise your knowledge and mastery of the Greek language.

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

AHIMSA:
"I would hestitate to use any part of Mark from 16:9 onwards in any kind of scholarly argument, as Mark 16:9 to the end of this gospel were added sometime later and do not reflect the writings of the original author. Originally, Mark ended with the women running away when they were afraid. The passages shown in 16:9 onwards are not present in the earliest manuscripts of Mark and the passage about follwers of Jesus picking up snakes and drinking poison and not being harmed somewhat stand out as being alien to the rest of the Markian gospel."

GE:
I would NOT hesitate in any manner to use any part of Mark from 16:9 onwards in any kind of scholarly argument because although Mark 16:9 to the end of this gospel was added sometime later it in no manner is in conflict with the writings of the original 'author' --- who obviously was no less of a collector of 'sources' than was Luke. For what reason on earth can the later addition of a portion of the Scriptures render it invalid? How much of the Scriptures are we going to have left over if we take that route? All four Gospels are compilations of 'texts', each to the preferences of the 'author' or 'authors' of each Gospel. What's difficult about that? Does that interfere with the 'Inspiration' of the Gospels or whichever other book of the Bible? Are we of so little faith?

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

vic C:
"AHIMSA does make a oint, but we are dealing with translations mainly interpreted from the TR. Some things need to taken into consideration, mainly the use of the word "sabbath" in some Bibles."

GE:
I guess you are at a loss to explain how "we are dealing with translations mainly interpreted from the TR" with regard to the word 'sabbatou' in Mk16:9.

I may be wrong, and therefore would appreciate if you could please show me these supposed discrepancies or just differences between and in the different 'texts', because I am not aware of any!

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

vic C:
"The word 'sabbath' or sabbaton can mean one of two things:

Strong's Ref. # 4521

Romanized sabbaton
Pronounced sab'-bat-on

of Hebrew origin [HSN7676]; the Sabbath (i.e. Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension, a se'nnight, i.e. the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications:

KJV--sabbath (day), week."

GE:
Now I am surprised how many make of Strongs virtually their first Bible, like here, where we must interpret the Bible according to information given in Strongs while the Bible and the NT in particular causes no problems in the understanding of its use of the word 'Sabbath' et al.
I could raise objections to the particulars here given by Strongs, but it would be both unnecessary and irrelevant. Let me only say Strongs' idea of the word 'sabbath' indicating "the interval between two Sabbaths" in all of the Bible and particularly in the NT is unfounded and totally imaginary. If an interval between two Sabbaths were meant, the Koine Greek had the best of linguistic tools to convey and express the idea 'word for word', literally, and exactly. JUST, like it had the proper 'tools' to convey and express 'word for word' literally and exactly the idea of concept of that reality called a 'Sabbath': by the hellenised Hebrew word, 'Sabbaton'. (I cannot see why one should view this word in the Greek of the Greek NT Scriptures, as a latinisation or "Romanised" word!! Strongs occasionally as shown here can be very weak in fact! It goes to show, simply, no one is immune to that great power called 'tradition'. Strongs came to the fore with these strange statements ONLY BECAUSE it (he / they) had no answers to the enigmas of the Sunday-resurrection tradition. Were it not for these unanswerable difficulties, Strongs would not have published its nonsense.

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

AHIMSA:
"We do know from other Gospel passages that He reose sometime right after sunset of the first day and sunrise of the same first day."

GE:
Quote please? You do not know what you claim for fact so innocently. NOWHERE else than Mt28:1 will you read of anything implying the resurrection --- which is the ONLY place time and day are given --- given for having been "IN THE SABBATH / ON THE SABBATH"

 

[one_lost_coin]

Does anyone know of a published author who has used Mark 16:9 to support a first day of the week resurrection which in turn they used - at least in part - to justify the establishment of the first day of the week as a special day for rest and worship?

Although St. Ignatius may not be using Mark 16:9 maybe if not probably because the idea to celebrate the Liturgy on the day Jesus rose predates the establishment of the cannon of Scripture.

St. Ignatius of Antioch who was a disciple of the Apostle John wrote in his letter to the Magnesians - CHAPTER IX.--LET US LIVE WITH CHRIST.
If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death--whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master--how shall we be able to live apart from Him, whose disciples the prophets themselves in the Spirit did wait for Him as their Teacher? And therefore He whom they rightly waited for, being come, raised them from the dead.

But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead (First Apology 67 [A.D. 155]).

You may be putting the cart before the horse they were already celebrating the Liturgy on Sunday before they were even writting the New Testament. For the reasons testified too above.

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

One lost coin,
I guarantee you this is the falsest 'Ignatius' possible!! It is so shameless I cannot think a Christian wrote it.

Ignatius says the OT prophets were disciples of Christ who did not legalistically "sabbatized, but according to Lord's life lived" their Sabbath-keeping, in other words, kept the Sabbath -- of the OT -- with NT-meaning, by celebrating it because of Jesus' resurrection from the dead.

There are MANY FALSE Ignatius'; do not be deceived by them! The Lord's Day is the Day of His Lordship - the day of his conquering death and grave --- which the Bible FORETOLD would be "the Seventh Day God thus concerning did speak", and Christ in actual resurrection confirmed was "In the Sabbath" Mt28:1.

 

[Rick W]

Gerhard Ebersöhn,
I don't mean to be critical but it would help the readability of your posts quite a bit if you could please use the quote feature and keep the size of your text at the default size.

:wink:

 

[rstrats]

Gerhard Ebersohn,

re: “Mt28:1 is the ONLY Gospel that tells WHEN Jesus rose from the dead.â€Â


I see nothing in Matthew 28:1 that says when the resurrection took place. What do have in mind?

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Can't you read?

Everyone can see the word 'resurrection' is not there; just so MUST everyone 'SEE' the resurrection THEN happening.

To mention just one reason why: How and why did the women suddenly believe that He rose from the dead? BECAUSE "the angel answered / explained to the women"!

That is why the Gospel is believed by faith (and "seen of angels" only) --- believed by the faith of HEARING and not of SEEING. 'SEE' with the eye of faith, and all you can see, is Christ in the Glory of the Father being raised from the dead "On the Sabbath Day" in Mt28:1.

 

[rstrats]

Gerhard Ebersohn,

Although you didn’t address your post to anyone, I’m going to take a guess that it is intended for me.

You ask if I can read. Indeed I can, and I do not read where Matthew 28:1 says anything about a resurrection, much less the timing of one.

“Now after the Sabbath, as the day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.ââ‚Â

 

[Paidion]

9 Now, rising in the morning in the first sabbath, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons.

This is the correct word for word translation from the Original Greek in the New Testament, into English.

It is true that the Greek expression "μια ÄÉν ÃαββαÄÉν" literally means "one of the sabbaths".
We have to be careful, though, before presuming the literal meaning to be the intention of the author.

It is a difficulty many people from other language backgrounds encounter when learning English. They tend to take English idioms literally. If someone says, "Too many cooks spoil the soup", the learner assumes a literal meaning.

The Greek phrase "μια ÄÉν ÃαββαÄÉν" refers to the first (day) of the week in every context in the New Testament, and ALL transators of whom I am aware (except the Concordant Translation), so translate it.

It becomes obvious that this is the meaning when one considers Matthew 28:1

Matthew 28:1 Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb.

AFTER the sabbath, comes the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK, not another sabbath.

 

[rstrats]

The third line from the bottom of my last post (wish they were numbered) should have the word “first†added before the word “dayâ€Â.

 

[dadof10]

The third line from the bottom of my last post (wish they were numbered) should have the word “first†added before the word “dayâ€Â.

You can edit you own posts. When signed in, simply go to the post and click the "edit" button on top.

 

[St Francis]

Does anyone know of a published author who has used Mark 16:9 to support a first day of the week resurrection which in turn they used - at least in part - to justify the establishment of the first day of the week as a special day for rest and worship?

I know of one that uses Mark 16:1 and Mark 16:2. The publisher would be Libreria Editrice Vaticana, and the book is The Catechism Of The Catholic Church - a must read for everyone I might add (references are at the bottom):


I. THE SABBATH DAY

2168 The third commandment of the Decalogue recalls the holiness of the sabbath: "The seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD."92

2169 In speaking of the sabbath Scripture recalls creation: "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it."93

2170 Scripture also reveals in the Lord's day a memorial of Israel's liberation from bondage in Egypt: "You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out thence with mighty hand and outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the sabbath day."94

2171 God entrusted the sabbath to Israel to keep as a sign of the irrevocable covenant.95 The sabbath is for the Lord, holy and set apart for the praise of God, his work of creation, and his saving actions on behalf of Israel.

2172 God's action is the model for human action. If God "rested and was refreshed" on the seventh day, man too ought to "rest" and should let others, especially the poor, "be refreshed."96 The sabbath brings everyday work to a halt and provides a respite. It is a day of protest against the servitude of work and the worship of money.97

2173 The Gospel reports many incidents when Jesus was accused of violating the sabbath law. But Jesus never fails to respect the holiness of this day.98 He gives this law its authentic and authoritative interpretation: "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath."99 With compassion, Christ declares the sabbath for doing good rather than harm, for saving life rather than killing.100 The sabbath is the day of the Lord of mercies and a day to honor God.101 "The Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath."102

II. THE LORD'S DAY

"This is the day which the LORD has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it."103

The day of the Resurrection: the new creation

2174 Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."104 Because it is the "first day," the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath,105 it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:

"We all gather on the day of the sun, for it is the first day [after the Jewish sabbath, but also the first day] when God, separating matter from darkness, made the world; and on this same day Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead."106

Sunday- fulfillment of the sabbath

2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:107

"Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death."108

2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.


92 Ex 31:15.
93 Ex 20:11.
94 Deut 5:15.
95 Cf. Ex 31:16.
96 Ex 31:17; cf. 23:12.
97 Cf. Neh 13:15-22; 2 Chr 36:21.
98 Cf. Mk 1:21; Jn 9:16.
99 Mk 2:27.
100 Cf. Mk 3:4.
101 Cf. Mt 12:5; Jn 7:23.
102 Mk 2:28.
103 Ps 118:24.
104 Cf. Mt 28:1; Mk 16:2; Lk 24:1; Jn 20:1.
105 Cf. Mk 16:1; Mt 28:1.
106 St. Justin, I Apol. 67: PG 6, 429 and 432.
107 Cf. 1 Cor 10:11.
108 St. Ignatius of Antioch, Ad Magn. 9, 1: SCh 10, 88.
109 St. Thomas Aquinas, STh II-II 122, 4.

 

[rstrats]

dadof10,

re: “You can edit you own posts.â€Â


That’s what I thought, also.




re: “When signed in, simply go to the post and click the ‘edit’ button on top.â€Â


There is no edit button to click.

 

[rstrats]

St Frances,

re: “I know of one that uses Mark 16:1 and Mark 16:2.â€Â


Thanks, but I’m only concerned with verse 9.