Mary, the mother of the Lord

[Runningman]

No comment.
You're not totally up to date.
Mating is not necessary for conception.

Oh, technically you are right, but most of the time I will refer to traditional methods and what the common person will intuitively know what I am referring to.

So if it happened through a miracle
WHO MADE MARY PREGANANT?

God made Mary pregnant.

All by herself?
Are we now discussing the Nicene Creed because you can't answer one simple question?
WHO impregnated Mary?

Sometimes I ask about other things Trinitarians believe in if I think there is an inconsistency in the theology, i.e., conceived versus incarnated. Incarnated suggests a pre-existence but the Bible is clear about conception.

Of course.
I believe the ENTIRE Nicene Creed.

The Nicene creed only refers to the Father as God in the whole thing and you said Christians must believe it.

This is why it shouldn't say CHRISTIAN...YES under your avatar.

PS
Just to clarify RM,
I'm NOT saying you're not saved....
I'm saying a person MUST adhere to the creed in order to be identified as Christian.
This was decide 2,000 years ago and is not a subject for debate.

I don't think we should just adhere to something simply because it's considered orthodox and has been around for a long time. We should think critically about what they say and see if they actually match the Bible.

 

[KV-44-v1]

Feels weird saying "conceive" because it strongly implies intercourse, but that's the word the translators normally use in Matthew 1:18-20. So let's say for sure Mary got pregnant, but how is more likely through a miracle rather than actual traditional fertilization of the female egg.

I don't know if anyone believes or adheres to the Nicene creed here, but it says this:

"I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages. God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father; through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven, and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man."

pretty sure the nicene creed realizes that
JESUS IS GOD!! :O

 

[KV-44-v1]

I am beginning with the fact that "elohim" doesn't necessitate there be a plurality of persons in a godhead.

Elohim, seraphim, cherubim.
Plural!
Why wouldn't it?

 

[Runningman]

Elohim, seraphim, cherubim.
Plural!
Why wouldn't it?

I explained why in post #258.

 

[Runningman]

pretty sure the nicene creed realizes that
JESUS IS GOD!! :O

Shouting it doesn't change the Nicene Creed. Have you read it before? No mention of the deity of Jesus. The only one in it that is God is the Father and if you want to be a Christian you must believe the Nicene creed.

 

[KV-44-v1]

Shouting it doesn't change the Nicene Creed. Have you read it before? No mention of the deity of Jesus. The only one in it that is God is the Father and if you want to be a Christian you must believe the Nicene creed.

Youre the one who is ignoring it.

"We believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father; God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God; begotten not made, one in being with the Father."
You glossed over this ^

One God the Father is a monothiestic statement NOT a unitarian one. You keep on confusing unitarianism and monothiesm over and over and over, you cant get it out.

Reducing Jesus which you have repeatedly done demonstrates your lack of belief of that truth in the Nicene Creed.

 

[KV-44-v1]

and if you want to be a Christian you must believe the Nicene creed.

"Assemblies who refer to themselves as Christian but don’t accept the Nicene Creed are groups who generally have fundamentally unorthodox beliefs on God’s trinitarian nature. The Nicene Creed was written in response to Arianism, which denied the Trinity. So a group wouldn’t use this creed if they don't agree that God is one God in the three persons of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."

 

[KV-44-v1]

ONE IN BEING with the Father!!
RIP unitarism 500 ad (or whenever) - 2024 ad

 

[Free]

Shouting it doesn't change the Nicene Creed. Have you read it before? No mention of the deity of Jesus. The only one in it that is God is the Father and if you want to be a Christian you must believe the Nicene creed.

You should probably read the Creed:

I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God, begotten of the Father before all worlds; God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made.

Who, for us men for our salvation, came down from heaven, and was incarnate by the Holy Spirit of the virgin Mary, and was made man; and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate; He suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures; and ascended into heaven, and sits on the right hand of the Father; and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the quick and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end.

And I believe in the Holy Ghost, the Lord and Giver of Life; who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets.

And I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins; and I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

https://ccel.org/creeds/nicene.creed.html

 

[Runningman]

Youre the one who is ignoring it.

"We believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father; God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God; begotten not made, one in being with the Father."
You glossed over this ^

One God the Father is a monothiestic statement NOT a unitarian one. You keep on confusing unitarianism and monothiesm over and over and over, you cant get it out.

Reducing Jesus which you have repeatedly done demonstrates your lack of belief of that truth in the Nicene Creed.

You're confusing the nature of God (a thing) with God (a person). The nature of God is the divine nature, something Jesus and Christians share in. The person God is known as the Father, YHWH, among other titles Jesus doesn't have in common with Him. Unitarianism is about who God is, not what God is. Trinitarianism has the problem of needing to de-person God, convert Him into an essence, so what God is becomes who God is, and therefore God becomes a thing that can be distributed among persons. The Bible says the only God is the Father and the Father is a person.

 

[Runningman]

"Assemblies who refer to themselves as Christian but don’t accept the Nicene Creed are groups who generally have fundamentally unorthodox beliefs on God’s trinitarian nature. The Nicene Creed was written in response to Arianism, which denied the Trinity. So a group wouldn’t use this creed if they don't agree that God is one God in the three persons of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."

Read the Nicene creed again. It doesn't call anyone God but the Father.

 

[KV-44-v1]

You're confusing the nature of God (a thing) with God (a person).

?????
The Father is One Person.
God is Three Persons. Unitarian assumptions BLIND you! so you assume that God and Father are identical or smth.
Jesus is the Second Person.

The person God is known as the Father, YHWH, among other titles Jesus doesn't have in common with Him.

Because Jesus is God but not the Father. Endless strawmanning and misunderstanding of Trinity from unitar's.
See, when you reject the Trinity, all you get is error and strawmen and confusion.
Unitism aint helping you, brother.

Trinitarianism has the problem of needing to de-person God, convert Him into an essence, so what God is becomes who God is, and therefore God becomes a thing that can be distributed among persons.

This is wronger than wrong. Weakest arg so far.
God, THREE PERSONS ONE GOD.

if what you said was true it would be Zero Persons One God. Then it would be None-ism!!
You do not know what essence means??? Why cant He be both??
God still has a nature in unitism so by your logic, unitarianism does the same thing!!!

 

[KV-44-v1]

The Bible says the only God is the Father and the Father is a person.

Yes. And the Son and the Spirit. you are preaching to the choir. Everyone here is a monothiest.

 

[Runningman]

?????
The Father is One Person.
God is Three Persons. Unitarian assumptions BLIND you! so you assume that God and Father are identical or smth.
Jesus is the Second Person.


Because Jesus is God but not the Father. Endless strawmanning and misunderstanding of Trinity from unitar's.
See, when you reject the Trinity, all you get is error and strawmen and confusion.
Unitism aint helping you, brother.

This is wronger than wrong. Weakest arg so far.
God, THREE PERSONS ONE GOD.

if what you said was true it would be Zero Persons One God. Then it would be None-ism!!
You do not know what essence means??? Why cant He be both??
God still has a nature in unitism so by your logic, unitarianism does the same thing!!!

Where did you get the idea God is three persons when the Bible doesn't say that?

 

[Free]

Read the Nicene creed again. It doesn't call anyone God but the Father.

Yes, read it again: the Son is "God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made."

 

[KV-44-v1]

Read the Nicene creed again. It doesn't call anyone God but the Father.

Monothiesm moment. Preaching to choir.

 

[Runningman]

Yes. And the Son and the Spirit. you are preaching to the choir. Everyone here is a monothiest.

God and Father are different titles for the same person. God is just one person.

 

[KV-44-v1]

Where did you get the idea God is three persons when the Bible doesn't say that?

Implies it.

Yes, read it again: the Son is "God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made."

Yes. Given runningman believes an unBiblical idea (unitarian) he is fighting a Losing Battle. #hilltodieon

 

[Runningman]

Yes, read it again: the Son is "God of God, Light of Light, very God of very God; begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father, by whom all things were made."

Person 1 = Son
of
Person 2 = God

God from God doesn't mean Jesus is God. The only God mentioned in the Nicene creed is the Father.

 

[KV-44-v1]

God is just one person.

then how could God be Love?? why didnt God make humans be asexual reproducers??
Why are there 3 dimensions (length width height) humans live in and not just 1?? God's nature reflected in Creation.