Mary, the mother of the Lord

[Runningman]

LOL
JOHN 17 SHREDS UNITARIANISM
God is the only true God. the Biblical Trinity teaches this.
All three Persons are the only True God. not three gods but One God!

3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I glorified You on the earth by accomplishing the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now You, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world existed.

I wonder,, how will YOUR church.. react to Verse FIVE??
they wont touch THAT with a 7,000 foot pole!

Begin with John 17:1-3 where the Father is explicitly identified as the Only True God. That doesn't change regardless of how you may interpret what Jesus said about himself regarding the world existed. For the record, I am comfortable with every part of the New Testament. I regularly use your very own favorite verses for preaching that Jesus isn't God.

 

[Runningman]

", 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all."
AND FATHER!!
WHY IS THE "AND" IN THERE IF ONLY THE FATHER IS GOD, AND NOT HIS SON?

One God and Father. God is the Father. Remember John 17:1-3 how the Father is the only true God? You're getting close. Keep going.

 

[Runningman]

Prove it. There is not a single verse that directly or clearly shows that God is an absolute unity (unitarian).


It's based on reasoning from the Scriptures, which all believers are called to do. Go refers to himself with plural personal pronouns, just 26 verses into the Bible.

Great, you’ve soundly refuted polytheism by proving monotheism, which is fully in agreement with Trinitarianism. But you are once again fallaciously begging the question by presuming that God is unitarian. Context matters.

I quoted something you said from page 14. I assume the personal pronouns you're referring to are those of "Elohim?" I explained that it isn't about numbers.

 

[LeviR]

One God and Father. God is the Father. Remember John 17:1-3 how the Father is the only true God? You're getting close. Keep going.

It doesn’t get any more simple than a son is younger than his father.
Common sense.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

God is one person.

Look, this is easy to understand. I'll even quote where the Bible say so. I'll ask you since you are challenging the Bible, since there is one of everything else and no one seems to argue about that then who does it say is the one God?

Ephesians 4
4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

One body
One Spirit
One hope
One Lord
One faith
One baptism
One God and Father

And only one access to him, which is Jesus Christ.

 

[Paul E. Michael]

Why do you think there is no mention of the Father in Matthew 12:31-32? Jesus is talking about God there.

That's you admitting that the Father is not the Holy Spirit. Jesus mentions the Holy Spirit in Matthew 12:31-32, and, as you admit, Jesus does not mention the Father in Matthew 12:31-32. So, you're on record, there, contradicting your own, heretical falsehood, here:

the Father is the Holy Spirit.

---

You wrote:

the Holy Spirit is a name for God as is the Father.

You already admitted that the phrase, "the Holy Spirit", is not a name of the Father, by your admission of the fact that the Father is not mentioned in a passage wherein occurs the phrase, "the Holy Spirit":

Why do you think there is no mention of the Father in Matthew 12:31-32? Jesus is talking about God there.

You're wrong in your claim that the Father is the Holy Spirit, but you're right in your counterclaim that the Father is not the Holy Spirit. You are divided against yourself.

You've made it very clear that you're not amenable to being reasoned with, that you refuse to think rationally about and deal honestly with what you write, and that you refuse to think rationally about and deal honestly with what others write. So, I guess you're going to have to be content with what you wrote to me in your last post, lashing out at me in your chagrin; because, now, by your own choice of your conduct, you've used up your audience with me. Enjoy having "the last word" now, now that you're on Ignore.

 

[Free]

It doesn’t get any more simple than a son is younger than his father.
Common sense.

Then you’ll agree that simple, common sense also tells us that a son is always the same nature as his father, correct?

 

[Free]

I quoted something you said from page 14. I assume the personal pronouns you're referring to are those of "Elohim?" I explained that it isn't about numbers.

Where did you explain that?

 

[Runningman]

Where did you explain that?

Comment #258

 

[Runningman]

That's you admitting that the Father is not the Holy Spirit. Jesus mentions the Holy Spirit in Matthew 12:31-32, and, as you admit, Jesus does not mention the Father in Matthew 12:31-32. So, you're on record, there, contradicting your own, heretical falsehood, here:

For sure you are either imagining something I never said or confusing me with someone else.

---

You wrote:

You already admitted that the phrase, "the Holy Spirit", is not a name of the Father, by your admission of the fact that the Father is not mentioned in a passage wherein occurs the phrase, "the Holy Spirit":

Never. I believe the Father is the Holy Spirit.

You're wrong in your claim that the Father is the Holy Spirit, but you're right in your counterclaim that the Father is not the Holy Spirit. You are divided against yourself.

Incredible. Where did I suddenly abandon what I said? Please show the comment. This should be good.

You've made it very clear that you're not amenable to being reasoned with, that you refuse to think rationally about and deal honestly with what you write, and that you refuse to think rationally about and deal honestly with what others write. So, I guess you're going to have to be content with what you wrote to me in your last post, lashing out at me in your chagrin; because, now, by your own choice of your conduct, you've used up your audience with me. Enjoy having "the last word" now, now that you're on Ignore.

Seems you have created a story to excuse yourself from this conversation. If you want to withdraw, there are better ways to go about that.

 

[Runningman]

And only one access to him, which is Jesus Christ.

Agreed. And the Father draws them first in John 6:44.

 

[Free]

Comment #258

And, as I stated, you’re fallaciously begging the question by beginning with the premise that God is unitarian regarding Gen 1:26. Your post explains Elohim, not “us” and “our.”

 

[Runningman]

And, as I stated, you’re fallaciously begging the question by beginning with the premise that God is unitarian regarding Gen 1:26. Your post explains Elohim, not “us” and “our.”

I am beginning with the fact that "elohim" doesn't necessitate there be a plurality of persons in a godhead.

 

[LeviR]

I am beginning with the fact that "elohim" doesn't necessitate there be a plurality of persons in a godhead.

God and His mighty ones are one.
That they may be one as we are one.

 

[Runningman]

God and His mighty ones are one.
That they may be one as we are one.

We can be one and yet I don't become you and you don't become me. We can also be one with God and don't become God. Don't be surprised if Trinitarians reject the idea of being one with God because it's an opening to disprove the deity of Jesus, but nevertheless it's true.

John 17
21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

1 Corinthians 6
17But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with Him in spirit.

 

[GodsGrace]

I believe we can safely conclude that Mary isn't the mother of God. This is also a commonly held position in Protestant Trinitarianism. Therefore, Mary is the mother of a human. Lord refers to a human Lord in all of scripture in regards to Jesus. That means Jesus isn't God.

Who conceived Jesus?

Both parties please.

 

[Runningman]

Who conceived Jesus?

Both parties please.

Feels weird saying "conceive" because it strongly implies intercourse, but that's the word the translators normally use in Matthew 1:18-20. So let's say for sure Mary got pregnant, but how is more likely through a miracle rather than actual traditional fertilization of the female egg.

I don't know if anyone believes or adheres to the Nicene creed here, but it says this:

"I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages. God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father; through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven, and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man."

 

[GodsGrace]

Feels weird saying "conceive" because it strongly implies intercourse, but that's the word the translators normally use in Matthew 1:18-20. So let's say for sure Mary got pregnant, but how is more likely through a miracle rather than actual traditional fertilization of the female egg.

Women conceive.
Not always the way you mention above.

I do believe Mary got PREGNANT.
She was heavy with child.
She was, by all intents and purposes, pregnant.

So what I asked and to which you have not replied is this:

HOW DID MARY CONCEIVE?
WHO CONCEIVED JESUS?
WHO WAS INVOLVED IN GETTING JESUS CONCEIVED?
WHO MADE MARY PREGNANT?

I don't know if anyone believes or adheres to the Nicene creed here, but it says this:

For your information,,,,if someone does not adhere to the Nicene Creed of 325AD, they are not considered to be Christian in their belief system.

Now...
They may not agree with some wording or other because neither did the early Christians.
They tried again with differing words in 381AD and 425AD.
It was accepted by the early church that 325 got it right.

"I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible. I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Only Begotten Son of God, born of the Father before all ages. God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father; through him all things were made. For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven, and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man."

A reply from you will be appreciated.
Instead you post a creed you don't even believe.
Thanks.

 

[Runningman]

Women conceive.
Not always the way you mention above.

A woman conceives, but cannot without the male counterpart. The act of conception occurs in this union, but the conceiving progresses without need of the male.

I do believe Mary got PREGNANT.
She was heavy with child.
She was, by all intents and purposes, pregnant.

So what I asked and to which you have not replied is this:

HOW DID MARY CONCEIVE?
WHO CONCEIVED JESUS?
WHO WAS INVOLVED IN GETTING JESUS CONCEIVED?
WHO MADE MARY PREGNANT?

How did I not reply? You just responded to my reply. My reply was that it probably happened through a miracle.

For your information,,,,if someone does not adhere to the Nicene Creed of 325AD, they are not considered to be Christian in their belief system.

So the Nicene creed doesn't say Jesus was conceived but rather was incarnated in Mary then became a man.

Side question, do you believe this part of the Nicene creed "I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible?"

A reply from you will be appreciated.
Instead you post a creed you don't even believe.
Thanks.

I love the Nicene creed. It doesn't support Trinitarianism.

 

[GodsGrace]

A woman conceives, but cannot without the male counterpart. The act of conception occurs in this union, but the conceiving progresses without need of the male.

No comment.
You're not totally up to date.
Mating is not necessary for conception.

How did I not reply? You just responded to my reply. My reply was that it probably happened through a miracle.

Oh. It sounded like you gave me 2 choices.

So if it happened through a miracle
WHO MADE MARY PREGANANT?

Easy question...
Easy reply.

So the Nicene creed doesn't say Jesus was conceived but rather was incarnated in Mary then became a man.

All by herself?
Are we now discussing the Nicene Creed because you can't answer one simple question?
WHO impregnated Mary?

Side question, do you believe this part of the Nicene creed "I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible?"

Of course.
I believe the ENTIRE Nicene Creed.

I love the Nicene creed. It doesn't support Trinitarianism.

This is why it shouldn't say CHRISTIAN...YES under your avatar.

PS
Just to clarify RM,
I'm NOT saying you're not saved....
I'm saying a person MUST adhere to the creed in order to be identified as Christian.
This was decide 2,000 years ago and is not a subject for debate.