Logically, if everything a person has is given to him from another, he is not that other who gave it to him.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Mary, the mother of the Lord
- Thread starter Runningman
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Well, I guess we’ll just have to conclude then that you are unwilling to address the logical arguments presented and that your claim that Trinitarianism isn’t reasonable or logical is without basis.
I’m hoping you can show where Jesus has something, anything, that is not given to him by his God.
How bout something easy, like the fact that God surely has life within Himself. You can’t give something you don’t have. The very life that exists within Him gives life to all things.
Jhn 5:26 - “For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,
Well that settles that matter. The son was granted(given)to have life within himself.
Ok, so now the son has life within himself. And can give that life to others.
The same life that the Father has always had within Himself, He gives to the son to have that same life within himself.
Can you think of anything else that was not given to him?
What unborn baby is a Lord?
Can only refer to the Divinity of Christ and makes Mary the mother of God, God bearer!
Thks
Jesus was "slain before the foundation of the world". Revelation 13:8
Was He given preexistence?
"life". That's probably just that Jesus took on human form. His body was alive. He died and rose. His body was torn and tattered with those scourge whips. His body had nail marks. His body died and was alive again.
When our bodies die we say, 'that person died'. It'd be a bit unusual, but correct, to say 'his body died'.
If Jesus is not Divine he must beca man right?
Jer 17:5 Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.
If Jesus is not divine and only a man then you who trust in Him for salvation are cursed!
Thks
Please respond to # 444 do you agree
Jesus.
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
I agree
Does this make her the Theotokos and mother of God?
My dear friend, that word, was one of the topics at the Council of Ephesus in AD 431 which was the use of the Greek term Theotókos (literally, “God-bearer” or “the one who gives birth to God”) in reference to Mary.
That council’s use of Theotokos was meant to counter the heresy of Nestorianism, which cleaved the nature and person of Christ in two: Christ’s human and divine natures were completely divergent and unconnected.
The problem in the Catholic theology is their misinterpretation (On Purpose).
We should distinguish the term Theotokos from mother of God, because there is a subtle yet important difference.
The term mother of God could be and has been taken wrongly as implying that Mary was the source or originator of God, similar to how Juno was the mother of Vulcan in Roman mythology. Of course, Christianity teaches that God is eternal and that Jesus Christ has a pre-existent, divine nature. The idea that Mary is the mother of God in the sense that she was the source of God or somehow predated God or is herself part of the Godhead is patently unbiblical.
That thought then leads to believing that Mary has some magical, spiritual influences over Jesus in that we need to pray to her, or venerate her or think that she is the co-redeemer.
Mary was the human agent through whom the eternal Son of God took on a human body and a human nature and entered the world. The term Theotokos was a succinct expression of the biblical teaching of the Incarnation, and that is how the Council of Ephesus used the word. Mary is the “God-bearer” in that within her body the divine person of God the Son took on human nature in addition to His pre-existing divine nature. Since Jesus is fully God and fully man, it is correct to say that Mary “bore” God.
Jesus always was. There was never a moment in time when He was not present.
"slain before the foundation of the world". = God knows the future.
Ok i get it, but scripture says mother of God! Lk 1:43
Mother of God!
Lk 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
Mary is not the mother of the divinity, or the mother of the eternal father, or the mother of the Holy Spirit, nor the source of the divine nature.
Mary is the mother of God, cos Jesus Christ is God and Mary is His mother, not the mother of His body but the mother of His entire person.
"She is rightly called not only the mother of the man, but also the Mother of God ... It is certain that Mary is the Mother of the real and true God." Martin Luther
"Elizabeth called Mary Mother of the Lord, because the unity of the person in the two natures of Christ was such that she could have said that the mortal man engendered in the womb of Mary was at the same time the eternal God." John Calvin
Mother of God!
Jesus is a divine person who became man, and not a human person, that is why Mary is truly the “mother of God” Jesus is God, Mary is His mother, so she is the mother of God not to be confused with “source”, she is not the source of God or the mother of the divine nature, or the mother of the eternal Father, nor the mother of the spirit!
But mother of the Son who is God.
Only one person every has a family relationship with God, Mary; and she has three!
Daughter of the Father
Mother of the Son
Spouse of the Holy Spirit
And Jesus being our spiritual brother Mary is our spiritual mother!
God has no mother:
God is uncreated and eternal!
God the son does have a mother!
Mary is the mother of God!
It does not mean that Mary is the mother or source of the divine nature of God, or the mother of the father or the mother of the spirit.
it is a relationship between mother and child, Mary and Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ is God;
Mary is His mother;
Mary is the mother of God to deny this is to deny the divinity of Christ and scripture. Lk 1:43
Cannot have Jesus as your spiritual brother unless Mary is your spiritual Mother!
Anyone who has no mother is an orphan.
Jesus said to His disciples; “I will not leave you orphaned” and “behold Thy mother”!
Jn 19:26 spiritual mother
Rev 12:19 spiritual mother
It is Mary who gave birth to the mystical Body of Christ!
We must obey the 4th commandment, “honor Thy father and mother”!
We must obey scripture and call Her “blessed”! Lk 1:48
Our salvation is in Mary!
Mother of our salvation!
The Lord is with Her!
Lk 1:43 And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
Mary is not the mother of the divinity, or the mother of the eternal father, or the mother of the Holy Spirit, nor the source of the divine nature.
Mary is the mother of God, cos Jesus Christ is God and Mary is His mother, not the mother of His body but the mother of His entire person.
"She is rightly called not only the mother of the man, but also the Mother of God ... It is certain that Mary is the Mother of the real and true God." Martin Luther
"Elizabeth called Mary Mother of the Lord, because the unity of the person in the two natures of Christ was such that she could have said that the mortal man engendered in the womb of Mary was at the same time the eternal God." John Calvin
Mother of God!
Jesus is a divine person who became man, and not a human person, that is why Mary is truly the “mother of God” Jesus is God, Mary is His mother, so she is the mother of God not to be confused with “source”, she is not the source of God or the mother of the divine nature, or the mother of the eternal Father, nor the mother of the spirit!
But mother of the Son who is God.
Only one person every has a family relationship with God, Mary; and she has three!
Daughter of the Father
Mother of the Son
Spouse of the Holy Spirit
And Jesus being our spiritual brother Mary is our spiritual mother!
God has no mother:
God is uncreated and eternal!
God the son does have a mother!
Mary is the mother of God!
It does not mean that Mary is the mother or source of the divine nature of God, or the mother of the father or the mother of the spirit.
it is a relationship between mother and child, Mary and Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ is God;
Mary is His mother;
Mary is the mother of God to deny this is to deny the divinity of Christ and scripture. Lk 1:43
Cannot have Jesus as your spiritual brother unless Mary is your spiritual Mother!
Anyone who has no mother is an orphan.
Jesus said to His disciples; “I will not leave you orphaned” and “behold Thy mother”!
Jn 19:26 spiritual mother
Rev 12:19 spiritual mother
It is Mary who gave birth to the mystical Body of Christ!
We must obey the 4th commandment, “honor Thy father and mother”!
We must obey scripture and call Her “blessed”! Lk 1:48
Our salvation is in Mary!
Mother of our salvation!
The Lord is with Her!
Wrong, that's your personal translation with obvious bias.
biblehub.com/luke/1-43.htm
Majority of translations say 'The mother of my Lord', referring to Jesus. His body.
We say 'mother of Jesus' even though His body was birthed.
Humans are the product of two other humans. Mabye even their soul/personality. But Jesus was & is God. God caused Mary to carry Jesus' body. Not a human man.
It was because of God that Mary gave birth. Virgin birth.
Jesus was/is not a product of Mary, He is eternal and uncaused. Jesus' birth, was a SUPERNATURAL event.
So there is a DIFFERENCE between mary being Jesus' mother and regular mothers being the mothers of humans.
Trying to apply the mechanics of humans with NO divine nature and mothers who needed a human to give birth -- to Jesus with a fully Divine, fully man Nature and Mary, who DIDNT need a human man -- in the manner RCC's do -- is an unfounded, unScriptural application. Please do explain otherwise, if you can.
All four Marian Dogmas are in Luke one!
Our salvation is in Mary!
Mary has is the mother of our salvation cos she found our salvation Lk 1:30 and consented Lk 1:38
Mother of my Lord
How can an unborn baby be anyone’s Lord unless He is God?
Mary is not the mother of the divinity, or the mother of the eternal father, or the mother of the Holy Spirit, nor the source of the divine nature.
Mary is the mother of God, cos Jesus Christ is God and Mary is His mother, not the mother of His body but the mother of His entire person.
"She is rightly called not only the mother of the man, but also the Mother of God ... It is certain that Mary is the Mother of the real and true God." Martin Luther
"Elizabeth called Mary Mother of the Lord, because the unity of the person in the two natures of Christ was such that she could have said that the mortal man engendered in the womb of Mary was at the same time the eternal God." John Calvin
Mother of God!
Jesus is a divine person who became man, and not a human person, that is why Mary is truly the “mother of God” Jesus is God, Mary is His mother, so she is the mother of God not to be confused with “source”, she is not the source of God or the mother of the divine nature, or the mother of the eternal Father, nor the mother of the spirit!
But mother of the Son who is God.
Only one person every has a family relationship with God, Mary; and she has three!
Daughter of the Father
Mother of the Son
Spouse of the Holy Spirit
And Jesus being our spiritual brother Mary is our spiritual mother!
God has no mother:
God is uncreated and eternal!
God the son does have a mother!
Mary is the mother of God!
It does not mean that Mary is the mother or source of the divine nature of God, or the mother of the father or the mother of the spirit.
it is a relationship between mother and child, Mary and Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ is God;
Mary is His mother;
Mary is the mother of God to deny this is to deny the divinity of Christ and scripture. Lk 1:43
Cannot have Jesus as your spiritual brother unless Mary is your spiritual Mother!
Anyone who has no mother is an orphan.
Jesus said to His disciples; “I will not leave you orphaned” and “behold Thy mother”!
Jn 19:26 spiritual mother
Rev 12:17 spiritual mother
It is Mary who gave birth to the mystical Body of Christ!
We must obey the 4th commandment, “honor Thy father and mother”!
We must obey scripture and call Her “blessed”! Lk 1:48
If you believe the bible why not matt 16;18-19?
Thanks
Salvation is a Gift from God. Are you telling me that Jesus IS salvation? How can He be God if He is simply the gift of salvation?
Yes Jesus Christ is our salvation!
Lk 2:30
It has been said that Christians are born in the waters of baptism, and are fishes swimming in the waters of baptismal grace!
Not the dry barren wasteland of “faith alone” which Vipers prefer!
If “faith alone” were true Christ would be a doctrine alone, nothing but a doctrine to be believed!
Jesus Christ us our propitiatory sacrifice meriting the atonement, mercy, & grace that are applied to our souls in the administration of the sacraments.
Jesus Christ is Our salvation:
We must have Union with God and His saints in the new covenant by Jesus Christ the mediator, must be in Christ, put on Christ, members of Christ by the grace of faith & baptism.
The sacraments are the fruits of the sacrifice of Christ and produce sanctifying grace!
The Way, The Truth, & The Life! Jn 14:6
Jn 1:16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. Grace is the life of God in us.
Brought to life. Eph 2:1 & 2:5
Christ in His person is our salvation! Lk 2:30
Thks
Thanks
Btw i use the KJV
Consecrated Life
Member
One thing we know for sure, that Mary had a moment where she like everyone else who is born again had to accept the sacrifice of her Lord Jesus as redemption for her sins.
Being the chosen vessel to bear Him afforded her nothing more than me and you in have been afforded in that regard .
Jesus made the point clearly that she was no different than any other sinner in need of salvation:
Matthew 12:48
Who is my mother?
Being the chosen vessel to bear Him afforded her nothing more than me and you in have been afforded in that regard .
Jesus made the point clearly that she was no different than any other sinner in need of salvation:
Matthew 12:48
Who is my mother?
Already refuted these.
Where is Jesus our 'brother'?
The douay rheims is a bad translation.
As one says, ". It’s a translation of the Vulgate, which is a translation from the Greek and Hebrew that has errors in it.
Honestly, unless you’re pushing an agenda, why would you ever use a translation of a translation?"
"the Church since even before Vatican IIhas not regarded the Vulgate as inerrant"
"
The first principle was that the basic text for translating had to be the Latin Vulgate of Jerome. This was considered to be even better than the Greek ‘in those places where they disagree.’ This is still the first principle for any translation approved by Rome and therefore, strictly speaking, Roman Catholic versions of the Bible are revisions rather than translations. The translators of the Douai Bible kept Latin words, and even phrases, and admitted to a word-for-word approach at times. This occasionally led to such unhelpful renderings as ‘against the Spirituals of wickedness in the celestials’ (Eph. 6:12). If a verb is not required in the Latin (or the Greek), it is not supplied in the English either, therefore they rendered Hebrews 13:4 as ‘Marriage honourable in all.’ The Psalms contain some quite unintelligible phrases because here Jerome translated from the Septuagint; the Douai Psalms are therefore a translation from a translation of a translation! However, it has to be admitted that this Bible was clearly dependent in a large measure upon Tyndale, Coverdale and the Geneva Bible—an irony indeed.
The marks of Roman Catholic theology are nevertheless evident. John and Jesus both call upon their hearers to ‘do penance, for the Kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ Our Lord prays that ‘this chalice’ might pass from him, and Paul and Barnabas ordain ‘priests in every church.’ The Douai Bible included the Apocrypha, with the exception of the books of Esdras and the Prayer of Manasseh, which were printed separately at the end. The commentary that ran alongside the text helped the faithful to interpret the Bible from a Roman Catholic perspective.
Bishop Richard Challoner revised the Douai Bible in the eighteenth century (1750) and this version, which was influenced to a considerable extent by the Authorized Version, lasted until the Confraternity Version in 1941. Even this was based upon the Latin Vulgate, although it was preceded by the commencement of the Westminster Version of the Sacred Scriptures in 1935 based upon the Hebrew and Greek texts.
By far the most popular English translation for Roman Catholics, partly because it is an official version, is that of Ronald A. Knox, called ‘a translation from the Latin Vulgate in the light of Hebrew and Greek originals.’ This was completed in 1949 but its great weakness was in being tied to a copy of the Vulgate authorized in 1592 and clearly not accurate in places.
It is not always appreciated that the Jerusalem Bible is a Roman Catholic translation. Published in 1966, the full version contains commentary notes to draw out Roman Catholic theology. For example, the note on Exodus 12 claims, ‘The Jewish Passover becomes a rehearsal for the Christian passover, the Lamb of God, Christ, is sacrificed (the cross) and eaten (the Last Supper) . . . The mystical re-enactment of this redemptive act becomes the central feature of the Christian liturgy, organized around the Mass which is at once a sacrifice and a sacrificial meal.’ The notes are also clearly liberal: the note on Jonah dismisses Jonah as the author and claims the book was written at a late date, concluding, ‘The late date is warning enough against any interpretation of the book as history.’
The Jerusalem Bible is of little value as a translation, though it is still the most widely used for reading in Roman Catholic churches. However, Roman Catholics are now permitted to use the Revised English Bible, and later editions of the Revised Standard Version under the title ‘The Common Bible.’
"
answersingenesis.org/the-word-of-god/from-vulgate-to-vulgar/
You are only half right. Orphans have no PARENTS not 'no mother' .
- A child whose parent(s) are dead.
He is *our* Salvation - He saves us.
But IS He the GIFT of salvation??
So you are saying Faith and Grace? I'm pretty sure 'faith alone' also includes Grace.
Faith+Grace
What is an example of a sacrament?
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