Masturbation

[friend]

Hi I'm new here and I know the title is probably off putting but its something I'm really struggling with. I'm a 23 year old woman and I've been with one sexual partner (around when I was 18) but no one since. After my first partner, I have wanted to wait until marriage for sex so I haven't been with anyone else but my problem is, I still really struggle with my sexual desires.

I have started masturbating pretty frequently (2-3 times a week) and after every time, I feel so gross and disgusted with myself but I continue to do it on a frequent basis. It's like, all my reason goes out the window when I start feeling lustful. I don't know what to do and I feel so guilty and dirty and that God is disappointed in me but I can never seem to curb the urges. If anyone has any advice on how to help with this, I would greatly appreciate it.

This is a sensitive topic for me so please, if you could keep judgment or harsh words out of your replies, I would appreciate it

 

[D-D-W]

In Matthew, chapter 5, Jesus says to just entertain lustful thoughts is sin. Obviously there might be some that will deny this but I would find it difficult to believe anyone that says they are not entertaining lustful thoughts of others while doing this.

“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
Matthew 5:27-28 NKJV

Actually that is an inaccurate description of Matt 5.28. The word "lust" is epithumeo which is any strong desire, good or bad. THe LXX used it to translate "covet" from the 10 commandments. I believe our Lord was referring to this:

Exodus 20:17
“You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

To covet means to try to take something to make it your own. In this case it is taking your neighbor's wife as your own. So to have sexual thoughts or feelings does not, by itself, rise to that level.

 

[D-D-W]

OK my computer rebooted and I lost a rather long story. I will try to remember what i said.

My study started with a book given (prematurely) to me a few weeks before our wedding. (asst pastor risked his job by not waiting until after) by Tim Lehaye called The Act of Marriage. It was very negative on "M," as was the congregational leadership at the time. They even sent around their "morality police" to interview us single guys every 3-4 months to see how we were doing. After a few rounds of being told I was full of lust and perversion demons, and sent to the board for exorcisms, I started lying that I had no such urges. That was my life the next 3 years. Then I graduated college and got married. Then they showed the Dobson videos on the Sunday night service. Then, only 4 months after getting married, they apologized for preaching against masturbation. But that started me on my quest. Which was right? What did the bible REALLY say? Could it be as silent as everyone seemed to think?

My wife still believed it was WRONG no matter what. From her mom she got that God hated sex and everything associated with it. He only grudgingly allowed it to produce pregnancy.

So I went to the bible book stores and perused what they had on the topic. A real mixed bag. I bought a book called "The Gift of Sex." by Dr Cliff and Joyce Penner, RN. A married medical couple writing about how sex is God's gift.

To start off the chapter entitled "You Want to do WHAT?" they posted the following from Song of Solomon, chapter 5, verses 2 and 5:

I was asleep but my heart was awake... my hands dripped with myrrh, And my fingers with liquid myrrh.

The clear implication of the authors was that Shulamite was masturbating. But was that supported in the original Hebrew?

Let me post the section, verses 2-5: (nasb 95)

I was asleep but my heart was awake.
A voice! My beloved was knocking:
‘Open to me, my sister, my darling,
My dove, my perfect one!
For my head is drenched with dew,
My locks with the damp of the night.’
“I have taken off my dress,
How can I put it on again?
I have washed my feet,
How can I dirty them again?
“My beloved extended his hand through the opening,
And my feelings were aroused for him.
“I arose to open to my beloved;
And my hands dripped with myrrh,
And my fingers with liquid myrrh,
On the handles of the bolt.

I read this in a bunch of different translations. The KJV rendered v4 this way:

My beloved put in his hand by the hole of the door, and my bowels were moved for him.

But "of the door" was in italics which meant it was added in by the translators. So I made my first foray into reading the Hebrew. Sure enough, no mention of a door in verse 4; and the term "bowels" could refer to any internal abdominal organ. I also saw that the KJV "by the hole" was more accurate than some of the other translations. Most of the translations seemed to indicate sexual arousal. So at that point I pulled out my multi volume Benson's Commentary, which my dad had used when he was in seminary. Standard Wesleyan Methodist commentary in early and mid 20th century. It said that ANY attempt to read sexuality into the Song of Solomon was perverted and sinful. it was ONLY about Christ and the Church.

 

[D-D-W]

Hopefully that was not too long. Signing off for the evening.

 

[WIP]

And the very next verse says this:

18 If a man lies with a woman so that there is a seminal emission, they shall both bathe in water and be unclean until evening. (NASB95)

That is normal marital relations. And that is COMMANDED in scripture, both testaments. If it is commanded by God, how is it spiritually unclean? That same chapter talks about menstrual cycle making a woman unclean. In all instances the Hebrew word is tamay. It has nothing to do with being spiritually unclean. it is only ceremonially unclean.

Yes, my mistake. Ceremonially unclean.

 

[WIP]

[ACMP=reminder]
Let's not turn this into a debate. We have other forums for that purpose.
[/ACMP]

 

[D-D-W]

So as I looked into the missing Door of verse 4, I had the thought, WHAT hole was she talking about? The Hebrew word for hole (chor H2356) there is also used elsewhere in the OT to describe a hole in the ground for an animal lair, a hole in a box and a body cavity.

So which was it? Body cavity seemed likely. But since this was a dream or fantasy, he was not really there (as seen in verse 6 and after) so what was she dreaming about? A while later I picked up another book "Biblical Lovemaking" by Professor Arnold Fruchtenbaum. He is a Hebrew scholar and this was his commentary on the Song of Solomon. There were 2 sections he did NOT fully translate as he said it was too intensely sexual and would offend the sensibilities of most christians; one of which was SOS 5:2-5. But he did translate and explain a previous section:

Song of Solomon 2:6
“Let his left hand be under my head And his right hand embrace me.”

He said the word translated "embrace" here is actually to fondle or stimulate. The NET translation is the only one to my knowledge that actually has the temerity to translate it that way. But then it started to make sense. She was remembering what he had done, but in her dream / fantasy it ws HER hand doing it, hence the wetness dripping from her fingers when she got up.

 

[D-D-W]

So if you take that story as the Penners take it, and as Fruchtenbaum seems to indicate, then she was masturbating to a fantasy or dream and there is nothing bad said about it at all.

A survey of other ancient mid east erotic poetry from the surrounding cultures have a common poetic euphemism:

garden = genitals in general
lily = female genitals specifically
liquid myrrh or frankincense = female wetness from arousal

It is interesting to note that the SOS is almost exclusively about Shulamite's appearance and pleasure; not very much about the man at all. Indeed, the OT seems to say the woman's pleasure is commanded:

Ex 21:9
If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her according to the custom of daughters. 10 If he takes to himself another woman, he may not reduce her food, her clothing, or her conjugal rights.

One of the few places the bible talks about rights - she has a right to sexual fulfillment.

 

[Hopeful]

So if you take that story as the Penners take it, and as Fruchtenbaum seems to indicate, then she was masturbating to a fantasy or dream and there is nothing bad said about it at all.

A survey of other ancient mid east erotic poetry from the surrounding cultures have a common poetic euphemism:

garden = genitals in general
lily = female genitals specifically
liquid myrrh or frankincense = female wetness from arousal

It is interesting to note that the SOS is almost exclusively about Shulamite's appearance and pleasure; not very much about the man at all. Indeed, the OT seems to say the woman's pleasure is commanded:

Ex 21:9
If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her according to the custom of daughters. 10 If he takes to himself another woman, he may not reduce her food, her clothing, or her conjugal rights.

One of the few places the bible talks about rights - she has a right to sexual fulfillment.

Why would you devote so much study to an act of the flesh?
Leave it behind, and walk in the Spirit instead.

 

[andy pandy]

Thought I would pose the question "Why does one masturbate." usually it is because there is a deficiency in the makeup of the psychological and physiological of the person. Somewhere along the line there has been a a defensive detachment happen because of a lack of love or acceptance by a parent which has affected the person psychologically

You will find that homosexuals are bound by this and rarely a day goes by without at least once, maybe twice and sometimes three times a day they are doing this.

 

[hawkman]

Hi I'm new here and I know the title is probably off putting but its something I'm really struggling with. I'm a 23 year old woman and I've been with one sexual partner (around when I was 18) but no one since. After my first partner, I have wanted to wait until marriage for sex so I haven't been with anyone else but my problem is, I still really struggle with my sexual desires.

I have started masturbating pretty frequently (2-3 times a week) and after every time, I feel so gross and disgusted with myself but I continue to do it on a frequent basis. It's like, all my reason goes out the window when I start feeling lustful. I don't know what to do and I feel so guilty and dirty and that God is disappointed in me but I can never seem to curb the urges. If anyone has any advice on how to help with this, I would greatly appreciate it.

This is a sensitive topic for me so please, if you could keep judgment or harsh words out of your replies, I would appreciate it

I am going to tell you something the sounds very simple to do but trust me it works .

If you are ready to stop masturbating say a prayer . Pray and ask God to take away your desire to masturbate .

 

[for_his_glory]

for_his_glory
A lot more but I am giving it out in smaller chunks so it can be more easily read. I am also time restricted so I can only post so much at a time.

What do you want more on next - my personal story or the Exodus stuff?

Whatever you feel that is relevant to the OP

 

[D-D-W]

friend - I was just re-reading your OP and I think I kinda missed the boat on this one. I went off on a tangent, but I hope you have gleaned something from what I have said. But I will make a turn and specifically address a couple of issues, which seem to be at the heart of your inquiry: (intentionally taken out of order)

but my problem is, I still really struggle with my sexual desires. I have started masturbating pretty frequently (2-3 times a week)

You did not say WHEN you started this; but if you are normal, it would have been around 12 or 13, which would mean you have been doing it for about 10 years.

It's like, all my reason goes out the window when I start feeling lustful.

IMO that is by design. God designed the sex drive and works it hormonally. Hormones can have a huge affect on our mentality. Up the testosterone by itself and a person gets more aggressive. Up the dopamine and a person gets happy. Up the melatonin and a person gets sleepy. Lower the serotonin and the person gets moody or depressed. Up the ghrelin and a person gets hungry. And the balance of testosterone, estrogen and progestin affect sexual desire. All of these hormones have both physical and mental effects. They can distort your view of reality. And the desires and moods they create push the mind to work toward satisfying them. When you are very hungry or thirsty every thought is influenced by how to get a drink or something to eat.

These are all working the way God designed them to work. That includes your sex drive. It is part of God's design. IMO that is the reason He never (or almost never) answers the prayer to remove or diminish it.

Isaiah 45:9 NASB95
“Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker— An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth! Will the clay say to the potter, ‘What are you doing?’ Or the thing you are making say, ‘He has no hands’?

When you bemoan your drive, in essence you are saying to God that He should have made you differently. Trust Him that He knows best and has YOUR BEST INTEREST in mind.

Genesis 1:26 NASB 95
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

Right there it says God created your sexuality. And in verse 31 He said it was "VERY good." Again, that includes your urges.

and after every time, I feel so gross and disgusted with myself but I continue to do it on a frequent basis. I don't know what to do and I feel so guilty and dirty and that God is disappointed in me but I can never seem to curb the urges.

From what I have seen, this is a rather common reaction to doing the "deed."

I would submit that your belief that "God is disappointed in me" is not accurate. Since the urges are part of HIS creation, trying to curb them becomes a work of the flesh which is bound to fail.

As to the feeling "gross and disgusted, guilty and dirty," you should ask yourself: Where is that coming from? It certainly does not sound like the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

There is a huge difference between the condemnation of the devil and the conviction of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit never leaves you feeling like God hates you. Rather, He is clean and encouraging:

"Yes you messed up and sinned, but repent and I will help you to do better. And all your sins are washed away in My blood."

That is what conviction looks like.

OTOH, if it is something like "You dirty rotten sinner, God hates you because you always mess up. You are not even worth the air you breathe." That is condemnation from the devil. And it is a LIE. Reject it immediately.

I have already introduced you to Song of Solomon 5:2-5 where I submit Shulamite did the deed. Now lets look a little farther in that chapter:

Song of Solomon 5:6 NASB 95
“I opened to my beloved, But my beloved had turned away and had gone!
My heart went out to him as he spoke. I searched for him but I did not find him; I called him but he did not answer me.
7 “The watchmen who make the rounds in the city found me, They struck me and wounded me; The guardsmen of the walls took away my shawl from me.
8 “I adjure you, O daughters of Jerusalem, If you find my beloved, As to what you will tell him: For I am lovesick.”

Have you felt beat up after the deed? Struck and wounded? Like something was taken from you? I think yes is the answer. So did Shulamite. But WHY did she feel that way? Was this still part of her dream/fantasy? Or was it a poetic description of how she felt? Either way, it is best described as loneliness. Not guilt. Not condemnation. Loneliness. That inner ache to be sharing that intimate moment with your spouse.

God designed sexuality to bring and bind 2 people together on all levels; physical, emotional, spiritual. Without that other person to share it with, there is an emptiness in the pit of the gut that can feel like guilt. I am sure the devil loves to work overtime on convincing people that is what it is; but remember the bible calls him a "liar and the father of lies." (John 8:44)

I would hope this will bring on other questions. Please ask and I will try to answer the best I can.

 

[WIP]

These are all working the way God designed them to work. That includes your sex drive. It is part of God's design. IMO that is the reason He never (or almost never) answers the prayer to remove or diminish it.

Interesting comment. It has been one of my prayers to remove this desire but you're right. Why would God remove that which He gave by design? Perhaps the better prayer would be to ask for His help to control one's urges in fitting with His will.

Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
Romans 7:13-25 NKJV

I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
Philippians 4:13 NKJV

 

[D-D-W]

Thank you WIP. I think that would be a much better prayer.

Prayerfully consider what the Bible does and does not say. You can choose from there. And it may just turn out that "controlling it" may include self-relief.

And if you do choose that, Then remember to thank GOD for all of those feelings and sensations.

 

[Hopeful]

Thank you WIP. I think that would be a much better prayer.

Prayerfully consider what the Bible does and does not say. You can choose from there. And it may just turn out that "controlling it" may include self-relief.

And if you do choose that, Then remember to thank GOD for all of those feelings and sensations.

Or, you could quit walking after the flesh and start walking after the Spirit.

 

[hawkman]

These are all working the way God designed them to work. That includes your sex drive. It is part of God's design. IMO that is the reason He never (or almost never) answers the prayer to remove or diminish it.

There is two separate things . # 1 . Your drive to have sex with a person of the opposite sex . # 2 . Your desire to masturbate . IF (that is a big IF for some of us ) you are ready to stop masturbating you can pray to that effect . God will have no problem with that . After all HE designed our bodies and minds . Your sex drive will still function just fine .

I am going to tell you something the sounds very simple to do but trust me it works .

If you are ready to stop masturbating say a prayer . Pray and ask God to take away your desire to masturbate .

Notice I said " desire " to masturbate not the ability to if you feel that you need to you still can masturbate .

 

[Adoration]

Or, you could quit walking after the flesh and start walking after the Spirit.

How are your comments helpful?? This thread is being very mindful... and is operating in a most respectful manner. This is an important topic... not to be washed over with slick one liners or iced with guilt and shame.

 

[Hopeful]

How are your comments helpful?? This thread is being very mindful... and is operating in a most respectful manner. This is an important topic... not to be washed over with slick one liners or iced with guilt and shame.

"Slick one liners"?
That is an interesting POV on a truth.
I read this morning..."I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.
But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn." (1 Cor 7:8-9)
What do you think we are to "contain" in order not to burn?

 

[Adoration]

"Slick one liners"?
That is an interesting POV on a truth.

My words to you were not regarding the truth of Scriptures... but rather your "style" of bringing that truth to the table.
Absolutely EVERYONE in this thread realizes this is a tender topic... The OP has warned against those throwing judgement her way. I have sent you a private message to explain things better.

We can all take lessons here... in how to handle delicate matters... and once again... I state... how REFRESHING that people are able to come and FREELY discuss what is holding them down... without fear of being harshly judged.

THIS is CHURCH people. Let us confess to one another our sins and shortcomings.... THIS is how people break addictions... by CONFESSING... so that it is no longer a secret in the dark.

 

[Hopeful]

My words to you were not regarding the truth of Scriptures... but rather your "style" of bringing that truth to the table.
Absolutely EVERYONE in this thread realizes this is a tender topic... The OP has warned against those throwing judgement her way. I have sent you a private message to explain things better.

We can all take lessons here... in how to handle delicate matters... and once again... I state... how REFRESHING that people are able to come and FREELY discuss what is holding them down... without fear of being harshly judged.

THIS is CHURCH people. Let us confess to one another our sins and shortcomings.... THIS is how people break addictions... by CONFESSING... so that it is no longer a secret in the dark.

Some times the quickest way to a destination is a straight line.
The OP'er seemed to want a way out.
That is what I provided.
I'll keep in mind your disdain for my "style" if we have future dealings.