Matt. 24:21 Wake Up Call?

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It seems that this is above most ones decernment?
[18] We know that [whosoever is born of God sinneth not]; but [he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not].
(and you say otherwise and surely there is a 'legal/law' qualification there!)

I understand. You do see however that if the tempter inserts a SIN THOUGHT for example, it IS a sin and is so of the tempter. That is not YOU as Gods child, but it certainly doesn't behoove us to give the tempter any standing of 'legality' while we seem to be 'externally' obedient to the Law.

You see both operators are in the same flesh. It is pointless to call 'that one' obedient under any measure of performance, legal or otherwise.

1 John 5
[16] If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

[17] All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
[18] We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
[9] And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

[20] And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

--Elijah

Sin is a progressive problem. It starts as sin THOUGHT, progresses to sin WORD and culminates in sin DEED, at which point it is incumbent to say, bro, you've been captured.

My own view is not to deceive myself into thinking that the presence of the tempter is ever obedient no matter what I do.

s

 

[Stormcrow]

Apparently, there remain some who believe the cross was not sufficient to deal with our sin, and so they look for some future event that will help them overcome it.

That is where the heresy lies: Christ's redemptive work on the cross didn't really save us. When you reduce the arguments of some here, that is what you find they really believe.

The devil - to them - is more powerful than the cross.

 

[John 8:32]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow
[FONT=&quot]{1} [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John, {2} who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. {3} Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]{4} John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, {5} and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood— {6} and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen. Revelation 1:1-6 (NASB) [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]{10} [/FONT][FONT=&quot]~'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. {11} ~'I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown. Revelation 3:10-11 (NASB) [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]{6} [/FONT][FONT=&quot]And he said to me, "These words are faithful and true"; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place. Revelation 22:6 (NASB) [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]{7} [/FONT][FONT=&quot]"And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book." Revelation 22:7 (NASB) [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]{10} [/FONT][FONT=&quot]And he *said to me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. Revelation 22:10 (NASB) [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]{12} [/FONT][FONT=&quot]"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. {13} "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." Revelation 22:12-13 (NASB) [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]{20} [/FONT][FONT=&quot]He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming quickly." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus. Revelation 22:20 (NASB) [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I believe it’s encumbent on you to show he wasn’t.

[/FONT]

Originally Posted by John 8:32
When do you suppose those scriptures were fulfilled, if they are not yet future?

You tell me.

Apparently you don't know. Could not have been at 70 AD, Revelation was not written until around 95 AD. Still future.

 

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Apparently, there remain some who believe the cross was not sufficient to deal with our sin, and so they look for some future event that will help them overcome it.

That is where the heresy lies: Christ's redemptive work on the cross didn't really save us. When you reduce the arguments of some here, that is what you find they really believe.

The devil - to them - is more powerful than the cross.

That's not the point whatsoever. But nice try.

The Cross did nothing for the tempter and his minions, NOR have they been destroyed in 70 a.d. as much as you'd claim that to be the fact.

It's not.

The great tribulation speaks exactly to the end of THEM.

You may certainly and obviously do consider yourself as exempt from temptation from the tempter and you may claim you either don't have it or if you do, it's just you. That is the track of reason that you must run without a tempter who is not you as Gods child. You are your own tempter and sinner.

John said this about this matter:

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

s

 

[reba]

Apparently you don't know. Could not have been at 70 AD, Revelation was not written until around 95 AD. Still future.

Not all agree on the dating....

 

[Stormcrow]

[/FONT][/SIZE]
Apparently you don't know. Could not have been at 70 AD, Revelation was not written until around 95 AD. Still future.

Not a single book of the NT was written after 70 AD. Not one.

 

[John 8:32]

Not a single book of the NT was written after 70 AD. Not one.

I was not there to witness it, so the best I can do is take the authorities on the subject at face value...


CatholicEncyclopedia:

Time and place

Irenæus tells us the letter was written by St. John during his stayin Asia (Against HeresiesIII.1). Nothing certain can be determined in this matter. The arguments areprobable in favour of Ephesus and also for the last few years of the firstcentury.

Wikipedia:

The First Epistle of John,often referred to as First John and written 1 John, is a book ofthe NewTestament. This fourth catholic or "general" epistle is attributedto John the Evangelist, traditionally thought tobe the author of the Gospel of John and the other two Epistlesof John. This Epistle was written in Ephesus betweenthe years 95–110.[1]

^ abcHarris,Stephen L., Understanding the Bible (Palo Alto: Mayfield, 1985)"1 John," p. 355–356



Time of Writing: Circa A.D. 90.

Gene Taylor, A Study ofthe Epistles of John, p.2



DATE: All threewere written about A.D. 85, or late 80’s and early 90’s. These letters wereprobably written after the Gospel of John and before the persecution underDomitian in A.D. 95.

Introductionto Epistles of John by Wil Pounds (c) 2006.

 

[reba]

http://christeternalchristianchurch.com/learningactivity39.htm

If you wish to hold to the RCC in this vane do you also hold to the 'other' books?

We all tend to hold to which ever view of dating fits our thoughts/beliefs.

 

[Elijah674]

Not a single book of the NT was written after 70 AD. Not one.

Do you believe in Eccl. 3:14 + Rev. 22:18-19??
!

Edited by staff??????
But, 'i' do think that Christians need Christs Matt. 24:21 on WAKE UP to this nonsense! False miracles & all! (and we have not seen anything yet! [NO, NOR EVER SHALL BE!]

Eccl. 3
[14] I know that, whatsoever God doeth (or sayeth), it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him. (and that time will come even for the conscious/less wicked. (no judgement intended there!)

Rev. 22
[18] For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
[19] And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.



Seventh-day Adventist [[[view]]] (+mine)
Main article: Historicism_(Christianity)#Seventh-day_Adventist_teaching
Adventists maintain a historicist interpretation of the Bible's predictions of the apocalypse.

 

[smaller]

Do you believe in Eccl. 3:14 + Rev. 22:18-19??


You state that for fact. Shame on your posting!

But who invited the preterist view of yours on this thread??????
But, 'i' do think that Christians need Christs Matt. 24:21 on WAKE UP to this nonsense! False miracles & all! (and we have not seen anything yet! [NO, NOR EVER SHALL BE!]

Eccl. 3
[14] I know that, whatsoever God doeth (or sayeth), it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him. (and that time will come even for the conscious/less wicked. (no judgement intended there!)

Rev. 22
[18] For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
[19] And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.



Seventh-day Adventist [[[view]]] (+mine)
Main article: Historicism_(Christianity)#Seventh-day_Adventist_teaching
Adventists maintain a historicist interpretation of the Bible's predictions of the apocalypse.

That is precisely why the SDA is blind. They look upon the external RCC and claim
anti-Christ, and don't even acknowledge that the same tempter who deceives works in ALL believers. Their view is nonsense. The same tempter and his minions that tempt with SIN THOUGHTS in RCC members is the same working in SDA members.

That is why I reject such blinded notions that seek to isolate themselves from obvious facts of Word.

Fact is, we all have sin. Fact is, sin is OF THE DEVIL.

Look there to see the 'cause' of Jacobs Trouble. Yes, the same matter troubled that man too, the end of which even frightened and disturbed him.

Jeremiah 30:
6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?
7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.


The fact of this being personal does bring us ALL into the TROUBLE ZONE.


Yet the promise remains SALVATION for the WRESTLER and CONTENDER. That would be 'us' as believers.

There was a Divine Reason that Jacob came before the SON OF PROMISE as a LIAR and was BLESSED by him.

That is the figure of a BELIEVER in TRUTH.

s

 

[John 8:32]

I was not there to witness it, so the best I can do is take the authorities on the subject at face value...

Wikipedia:

The First Epistle of John,often referred to as First John and written 1 John, is a book ofthe NewTestament. This fourth catholic or "general" epistle is attributedto John the Evangelist, traditionally thought tobe the author of the Gospel of John and the other two Epistlesof John. This Epistle was written in Ephesus betweenthe years 95–110.[1]

^ abcHarris,Stephen L., Understanding the Bible (Palo Alto: Mayfield, 1985)"1 John," p. 355–356



Time of Writing: Circa A.D. 90.

Gene Taylor, A Study ofthe Epistles of John, p.2



DATE: All threewere written about A.D. 85, or late 80’s and early 90’s. These letters wereprobably written after the Gospel of John and before the persecution underDomitian in A.D. 95.

Introductionto Epistles of John by Wil Pounds (c) 2006.

OK, editted to make more palatable. What I actually did was type in a google query about when were John's books written and those sources came up. They were not 'cherry picked'. Although, I noticed there were no sources posted at all for the "none, no not one" statement.

 

[John 8:32]

I believe we have reached an impasse here at any rate, so I think I shall just monitor this thread.

 

[reba]

A gentleman ? Wow thanks John :yes

Just in case some one reads sarcasm into my post i did not put it there!

 

[Elijah674]

I believe we have reached an impass here at any rate, so I think I shall just monitor this thread.

'i' edited by staff
--Elijah

And the WAKE/UP Call will find these ones of Obad. 1:16 way to late regardless if it be them or me for any waking up then!

OBAD. 1
[16] For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and [[they shall be as though they had not been]].

 

[Sinthesis]

Edited by staff
:waving

 

[Stormcrow]

OK, editted to make more palatable. What I actually did was type in a google query about when were John's books written and those sources came up. They were not 'cherry picked'. Although, I noticed there were no sources posted at all for the "none, no not one" statement.

You missed a spot:

According to early tradition, this book was composed near the end of Domitian's reign, around the year 95 AD. Others contend for an earlier date, 68 or 69 AD, in the reign of Nero or shortly thereafter.[19] The majority of modern scholars accept one of these two dates, with most accepting the Domitianic one.[20]
Those who favour the later date appeal to the earliest external testimony, that of the Christian father Irenaeus (c. 150-202),[21] who wrote that he received his information from people who knew John personally. Domitian, according to Eusebius of Caesarea (c. 263–339), started the persecution referred to in the book. While some recent scholars have questioned the existence of a large-scale Domitian persecution,[22] others believe that Domitian's insistence on being treated as a god may have been a source of friction between the Church and Rome.[23]


The earlier date, first proposed in modern times by John Robinson in a closely argued chapter of "Redating the New Testament" (1976), relies on the book's internal evidence, given that no external testimony exists earlier than that of Irenaeus, noted above, and the earliest extant manuscript evidence of Revelation (P98) is likewise dated no earlier than the late 2nd century. This early dating is centered on the preterist interpretation of chapter 17, where the seven heads of the "beast" are regarded as the succession of Roman emperors up to the time of the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD.[24]


John W. Marshall dates the book to 69 or early 70 AD, saying it predates any formal separation of Christianity and Judaism,[25] and that it is a thoroughly Jewish text.[26]

If the book were written after 70 AD, there is no significant event that fulfills the timing of John's words "soon" and "near." The book - having been written no later than 68 AD - is consistent with Christ's words in Matthew 23 and 24 wherein He says all the things He has prophesied will fall on that generation.

Therefore, given Christ's words and His significant presence in the book of Revelation, it falls on people who want to make these things "all about us" to prove their position. The fact that people cannot support such a position without pulling a few verses wildly out of context (edited by staff) and ignoring the rest of the Bible simply illustrates how such man-made fantasies have overwhelmed sound biblical exegesis and hermeneutics.

 

[Hitch]

You missed a spot:



If the book were written after 70 AD, there is no significant event that fulfills the timing of John's words "soon" and "near." The book - having been written no later than 68 AD - is consistent with Christ's words in Matthew 23 and 24 wherein He says all the things He has prophesied will fall on that generation.

Therefore, given Christ's words and His significant presence in the book of Revelation, it falls on people who want to make these things "all about us" to prove their position. The fact that people cannot support such a position without pulling a few verses wildly out of context (cough...OP...cough) and ignoring the rest of the Bible simply illustrates how such man-made fantasies have overwhelmed sound biblical exegesis and hermeneutics.

None of which has any effect on R1-1-3.

 

[Elijah674]

A gentleman ? Wow thanks John :yes

Just in case some one reads sarcasm into my post i did not put it there!

Edited by staff. Yet, how can anyone say that God does NOT REQUIRE REPEATS and be 'Spiritually IN Christ??' Matt. 24 has documented repeats to be required. Matt. 24:14 is only one of them.

And the Eccl. 1:9-10 + Eccl. 3:15 are even [twice] documented Truth of Inspiration to that FACT! Even for the Heb. 6:6 REPEAT!

Heb. 6:6
[1] Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
[2] Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
[3] And this will we do, if God permit.

[4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
[6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

And then of course there are many that have never even got to this 'spiritual rebirth' for a 'required' starting point of John 3:3-8. That is one reason for the Lord having Wake/Up Jude 1:22-23 attemps! 'real fear' is perhaps one last resort! And God does not care why one comes to Him, as long as they do so! Then He can re/create in them a new loving heart! (think of Saul)
--Elijah

 

[reba]

Thread lock for moderator review . Come on guys the snarky remarks need to stop.

I will clean this up later.

 

[reba]

I have cleaned up some of these posts. Reading posts to find snarky remarks is a sad use of my time. I would that i could just read your posts to glean a bit of knowledge.

You will just get the red edits from this point i will not spend my time editing so the posts read nicely.

Posting is a privilege please respect your Christianity and this site.