Bible Study Matt. 25;46

[Quantrill]

It was in post 34

It is difficult to say or imagine everything is under the control of God. But, it is difficult to imagine that God knows every hair of everyone. (Luke 12:7) So, yes, God controls the future. To say God just knows the future, makes the future out of control by God.

Again, where did I say it? Just saying post #(34) is not good enough.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Deleted in violation of the ToS 1.1

 

[Edward]

Again, where did I say it? Just saying post #(34) is not good enough.

Quantrill

So you don't recognize your own words in my post? The first paragraph below where I wrote its in post 34.

 

[Edward]

So? Where did I say the Lord causes things to happen because He knew it would happen?

God always gets what He wants.

Quantrill

So are you saying that God wants for some to saved and some to be lost and perish?

If that is the case then perhaps you can help me to understand a verse which I am probably 180 degrees off from what it says (lol), so you tell me what it means, ok?

It is 2 Peter 3:9
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”.../

I'm obviously missing something if God always gets what He wants.

 

[for_his_glory]

Some of those people are good company. Know how to enjoy life and have fun. Whereas Heaven might be full of dull partypoopers.

I know you kid around a lot, but do you really think a place like the lake of fire being a place of eternal punishment is going to be all fun and games!!!

You would think that one would want to be a part of the New Jerusalem being with our Lord and Savior in a place of beauty and tranquility living in total peace and contentment having fellowship with God and His son Christ Jesus standing before us, Rev 21:9-27; Chapter 22

Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[for_his_glory]

God always gets what He wants.

If God gets everything He wants then why are so many going to be cast into the lake of fire? God said that He would that none should perish, but He also knows not everyone will come to Him.

 

[Edward]

So?

Quantrill

Brilliant repose!

 

[for_his_glory]

It is difficult to say or imagine everything is under the control of God. But, it is difficult to imagine that God knows every hair of everyone. (Luke 12:7) So, yes, God controls the future. To say God just knows the future, makes the future out of control by God.

Why would it be difficult to say or even for us to imagine everything is under the control of God? Is not God the Master of the universe and all things are in His hands? God controls that which is good and even that which is evil as believe it or not God created evil.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The word translated "evil" is from a Hebrew word kelalah that means adversary, affliction, calamity, distress and misery. This is what God has created and puts on those who He has cursed for their rebellion against Him so they know "I AM" in all sovereignty. Deuteronomy 27:11-26.

 

[humble soul]

you really think a place like the lake of fire being a place of eternal punishment is going to be all fun and games!!!

Hell can begin here. Hell and Heaven are way beyond our imagination. We can't describe them. I am more kidding about trying to describe them.
If our motivation for doing good now, is seeking reward in the afterlife, our faith is superficial at best.
Would you go to Hell, so that your child could go to Heaven? Now that's sacrifice. That's love.
My idea of Heaven is like a reunion party.
You get to see all the people you loved, again.

 

[GodsGrace]

Concerning God's control of the future consider the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ. When was He slain in the plan of God? From the foundation of the world. (Rev. 13:8) And God knows all His works from the beginning of the world. (Acts 15:18)

Agreed.
God knows everything from the beginning of time.
And, He had a plan for us because He knew our free will would allow us to sin.

Was the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ a 'reaction' from God or was it always the plan of God? Of course it was God's plan. To say God 'reacted' to what He knew to be future, but He did not control the future, makes the future out of His control. God never 'reacts'. He 'acts'. To us who are marching through history, of course it has all appearance of God reacting, but all is controlled by Him. When God asked Adam 'where art thou', (Gen. 3:9), did He really not know? Of course He knew. But this work of God must be played out.

As you said...of course it was God's plan.
I NEVER said God reacted to anything.
God controls everything...nothing happens without His approval.
He ALLOWS things to happen...including sin.
This does NOT mean He CAUSES it to happen.
Knowing something and causing something are 2 different end results.

It is difficult to say or imagine everything is under the control of God. But, it is difficult to imagine that God knows every hair of everyone. (Luke 12:7) So, yes, God controls the future. To say God just knows the future, makes the future out of control by God.

You don't give God enough credit.
I think y ou're speaking about free will here, but I'm not sure.

My opinion which I say is based upon Scripture is that men when they are born physically into this life are already known by God to be be His children or children of the world and satan. Those who are known by God to be His children are the ones who are lost. The children of the world and satan are never lost as they are at home in the world which satan is the prince of. They were never children of God and will never be children of God. They are in conflict with God and His people, but they are not lost to God as they were never His.

I've read this before from you...
it's just not understandable.
You say this idea is based on scripture...
could you give me some verses please?

Scripture teaches us that we are all born lost....
those that come to believe in Jesus and obey Him will be saved.
John 3:16-18
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
17“For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
18“He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Consider this verse. (John 10:26) "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you." Jesus didn't say you are not of my sheep because you don't believe...which is how we usually read it. He said you don't believe because you are not mine.

Also this verse. (John 8:47) "He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God." Same thing. Jesus doesn't say if you would just believe you would hear God's words. He says you don't hear because you are not of God.

In other words, we who are Christians, believers, were never children of satan even when we were lost. We were children of wrath, due to being lost. We were servants of sin and satan and the world, due to being lost. We in our lost state were still of God and because of that, when we heard the Gospel we responded to our Father.

This is what I believe the story of the Prodigal Son pictures.

Quantrill

This is what The Prodigal Son teaches:

1. God Father loves His children.
2. By choice, it is possible to abandon the house of God and depart on our own path.
3. God always calls to us.
4. It's possible to be sorry for our departure from our home and return to God.
5. There is much rejoicing in heaven when we do.

It teaches much more, but the above refers to our conversation.

 

[GodsGrace]

Hell can begin here. Hell and Heaven are way beyond our imagination. We can't describe them. I am more kidding about trying to describe them.
If our motivation for doing good now, is seeking reward in the afterlife, our faith is superficial at best.
Would you go to Hell, so that your child could go to Heaven? Now that's sacrifice. That's love.
My idea of Heaven is like a reunion party.
You get to see all the people you loved, again.

Do you think you're going to heaven humble soul?
Why?
(or why not).

 

[humble soul]

Do you think you're going to heaven humble soul?
Why?
(or why not).

Almost certainly Purgatory. Though complacency like that could see me worse off.

 

[GodsGrace]

Almost certainly Purgatory. Though complacency like that could see me worse off.

humble soul,
Every Catholic believes they're going to purgatory and the reason is that they know they sin
and are not in a perfect state to enter heaven.

Let me ask you this way?
Why are you going to Purgatory instead of hell?

A problem with the CC is that the priest DOES say the correct things from the pulpit...
the problem is that most catholics do not attend bible study and don't really understand what he's saying.

Let's see if YOU understand what YOUR priest is saying.

 

[humble soul]

Why are you going to Purgatory instead of hell?

I don't pretend to know for sure. ("Almost certainly" was kidding too) That's what I find amusing about the "saved" born again paradigm Christians. They think they know for sure.
No one knows. Because we haven't met anyone who has been there.

 

[humble soul]

the problem is that most catholics do not attend bible study and don't really understand what he's sayin

That's changing. I attended a Catholic Bible study. Full of ex protestants thrilled to be the top of the class. Sorry that's unfair. They were diligent. And I did learn something. And I need to return.Scripture is important. It's just not as literal as many seem to think it is.

 

[GodsGrace]

I don't pretend to know for sure. ("Almost certainly" was kidding too) That's what I find amusing about the "saved" born again paradigm Christians. They think they know for sure.
No one knows. Because we haven't met anyone who has been there.

I have to sign off now HS.
Why do you think the N.T. was written?
We can know and be at peace with God.

Don't have time now to post verses...
Please read 1 John 1:1-4

Let me know what you make of it.

Also, the following IS taught in the CC.
Let me know about this too.
I think this conversation might be interesting to you.

Galatians 2:16

Tomorrow.

 

[GodsGrace]

That's changing. I attended a Catholic Bible study. Full of ex protestants thrilled to be the top of the class. Sorry that's unfair. They were diligent. And I did learn something. And I need to return.Scripture is important. It's just not as literal as many seem to think it is.

The N.T. is literal.
And yes, protestants are also becoming Catholic because that denomination is more stable.
There is more that is agreed upon, than disagreed upon.

 

[humble soul]

If a psychoanalyst were here, he might suggest, that deep down I do believe in Hell. Dante's hell. That actually I do believe God is out to get me. And I'm a gonna pay for those terrible sins I did and perhaps am still doing.
Fortunately that's only a part of me. Another part, believes in a merciful God.

 

[humble soul]

The N.T. is literal.

Yet gospel of John is written so poetically.
You are obviously better credentialed than me on this but ..... Those parables actually occurred? The miracles?
Revelations sounds like a dream sequence....

 

[Quantrill]

So you don't recognize your own words in my post? The first paragraph below where I wrote its in post 34.

No, you don't recognize my words. I never said the Lord causes things to happen because He knew it would happen. Show me where I said that.

Quantrill