Meeting a real apostle, today?

[tiwtiwtiw]

As someone who grew up in a Christian family, I thought I know what’s right and wrong. Not too long ago, I was invited to a “Christian†church. I put quotes because it's validity is in question here.

• They have a leader among them who is considered as an apostle. Here are my observations of major differences with the general Christian faith:
• Their leader is claimed to be an apostle who have directly heard God’s voice/instructions.
• Gospel we’ve (today’s Christians) received is incomplete
• Those who believe in God with the incomplete gospel will not go to hell, but cannot enter heaven either. They will reside outside of heaven, regretting their life. Only those who accepts the full gospel can enter heaven. (with exceptions of those incapable i.e., infant death, retardation, etc.)
• A church rejects an apostle’s leadership is not properly guided by God. In other words, all of today’s churches who know of his (the apostle) existence must let him lead.
• Baptize must be full body under water, otherwise not baptized. (with exceptions of those incapable i.e., Believe right before death, no suitable facility)
• Worship and prayer must include speaking/singing in tongues

Sounds like a cult? well I think so. I very much like to dismiss them as a cult and move on with my Christian life. However they have bible verses to backup everything they say. Discuss with them shows they know the bible very well, better than I. I’m having trouble determining where their teachings are wrong. If I can't find fault in their belief, does that mean they are right? That I should follow this apostle? Please someone help me out! Where are they wrong???

• If need their bible verses that they use to support each of the above, I have upon request.
• If want to know their church’s name and the apostle’s name, I can give you privately. I will not post it publicly.
• If want to see their church’s official website, I can provide upon request

~desperate and confused!

 

[theLords]

The short answer: Stay away!

The long answer: Will have to wait until I have more time later to explain.

I hope that gives some comfort in the mean time. Blessings!

 

[tiwtiwtiw]

Thank you for your reply.

I am looking forward to the long answer.

 

[PouringRain]

I would be interested in seeing the website.

 

[theLords]

Any man who says that you must surrender to him as he is the only proper way to be led in worship, prayer, or guidance to God is a man a Christian should be weary of!

The Bible says that Jesus is "the way, the Truth, and the life." A Godly man would point you to Jesus, not towards himself.

I wouldn't necessarily call them a cult. There just seems to be some dangerous type of thinking going on in that church. Forced submission or else is not from God.

Just my

 

[theLords]

PS - You might want to ask a mod to move this to "Christian Talk & Advice" because I think you'll find you get more responses in that forum.

 

[Igor]

Why can't you at least post their website address? Isn't it a publically available site on an open internet? Why can't you post the verses that they claim backs them up. Are they secretive about those too? This smell of false doctrine to me!

 

[tiwtiwtiw]

I would be interested in seeing the website.

I will privately send you the info. ... As soon as I figure out how to. I'm new here. :

 

[tiwtiwtiw]

Why can't you at least post their website address? Isn't it a publically available site on an open internet? Why can't you post the verses that they claim backs them up. Are they secretive about those too? This smell of false doctrine to me!

I'm not posting it publicly is not to protect them. It's more to protect me because I want to remain anonymous.

As for the verses, sure i'll do that. Need a little time since I don't memorize them as they do.

 

[tiwtiwtiw]

PS - You might want to ask a mod to move this to "Christian Talk & Advice" because I think you'll find you get more responses in that forum.

Ok I will see to doing that, as soon as I figure how. I am new here. :
I seem to be having a little trouble finding out how... can you point me where to click for that?

Any man who says that you must surrender to him as he is the only proper way to be led in worship, prayer, or guidance to God is a man a Christian should be weary of!

Regarding this, well he does preach surrender to Jesus. Think of it this way: imagine in biblical time, if you are church who says believes in God, but rejects Paul, and instead use ur own interpretations, then isn't that wrong? You can't really believe in Jesus and disagree sharply with Paul's core teachings.

 

[theLords]

Ok I will see to doing that, as soon as I figure how. I am new here. :



Regarding this, well he does preach surrender to Jesus. Think of it this way: imagine in biblical time, if you are church who says believes in God, but rejects Paul, and instead use ur own interpretations, then isn't that wrong? You can't really believe in Jesus and disagree sharply with Paul's core teachings.

The current moderators online are jasoncran and Mike. If you scroll down to the bottom of the board you'll see the list of members who are on. Admins are in red and moderators are in green.

If you click on a username and then click "see profile" under there picture you'll see an option that says "send private message."

I would like to see their website as well. It seems I misunderstood your post.

Also, may I ask, have you received the Baptism of Fire?

 

[theLords]

Regarding this, well he does preach surrender to Jesus. Think of it this way: imagine in biblical time, if you are church who says believes in God, but rejects Paul, and instead use ur own interpretations, then isn't that wrong? You can't really believe in Jesus and disagree sharply with Paul's core teachings.

Ah, okay, is this what is going on in that church? The problem with that thinking is that Paul said nothing that contradicted the message of Jesus Christ.

What kind of denomination is this?

Do they accept the other books of the New Testament? Peter, 1 John, James, Jude, etc.

 

[jasoncran]

As someone who grew up in a Christian family, I thought I know what’s right and wrong. Not too long ago, I was invited to a “Christian†church. I put quotes because it's validity is in question here.

• They have a leader among them who is considered as an apostle. Here are my observations of major differences with the general Christian faith:
• Their leader is claimed to be an apostle who have directly heard God’s voice/instructions.
• Gospel we’ve (today’s Christians) received is incomplete
• Those who believe in God with the incomplete gospel will not go to hell, but cannot enter heaven either. They will reside outside of heaven, regretting their life. Only those who accepts the full gospel can enter heaven. (with exceptions of those incapable i.e., infant death, retardation, etc.)
• A church rejects an apostle’s leadership is not properly guided by God. In other words, all of today’s churches who know of his (the apostle) existence must let him lead.
• Baptize must be full body under water, otherwise not baptized. (with exceptions of those incapable i.e., Believe right before death, no suitable facility)
• Worship and prayer must include speaking/singing in tongues

Sounds like a cult? well I think so. I very much like to dismiss them as a cult and move on with my Christian life. However they have bible verses to backup everything they say. Discuss with them shows they know the bible very well, better than I. I’m having trouble determining where their teachings are wrong. If I can't find fault in their belief, does that mean they are right? That I should follow this apostle? Please someone help me out! Where are they wrong???

• If need their bible verses that they use to support each of the above, I have upon request.
• If want to know their church’s name and the apostle’s name, I can give you privately. I will not post it publicly.
• If want to see their church’s official website, I can provide upon request

~desperate and confused!

surely all those souls that wanted to know god in these last days that were after the original 12 would by now have such revalation

when i hear the bible isnt complete alarms ring, as well we can add and subtract or distort what the bible says.
think mormonism!

if a book is to be added it must not contradict the other books the book or mormon does just that makes the man moses a liar!

 

[Theofilus]

I will privately send you the info. ... As soon as I figure out how to. I'm new here. :

If you want to send someone a PM (Private Message), just click on their username in the upper left-hand corner of any post they've made, and select "Private Message" from the drop-down list.

 

[tiwtiwtiw]

I would like to see their website as well. It seems I misunderstood your post.

Also, may I ask, have you received the Baptism of Fire?

I will private message you their website infos.

Baptism of fire, they asked me the same thing. Are you pentecostal?

They claim to be non-denominational. To paraphrase what they say: there is only one gospel, and yet we have many denominations today. This is due to men using their own knowledge to interpreted the bible instead of from God's inspiration. So we need to follow an apostle.

From my own observation, i say they lean towards Pentecostal heavily.

...Paul said nothing that contradicted the message of Jesus Christ.

What kind of denomination is this?

Do they accept the other books of the New Testament? Peter, 1 John, James, Jude, etc.

Well they say they do not contradict the message of Jesus Christ too. Their reason is that you think it contradicts because you misinterpretate the message of Jesus Christ. Like how Paul originally misinterpretate that Jesus must be cursed since he is hanged on a tree. So how do you correctly interpreate the bible and not use your ideas to interpareate? Well they say you need divine help, like from the Holy Spirit. Also people back in the day listened to the Apostles, so we should too.

The bible they use is the same bible as ours. No books taken out, no books added. And no extra book like the Mormon bible.

when i hear the bible isnt complete alarms ring, as well we can add and subtract or distort what the bible says.

I wish it were that easy. They do not claim the bible is incomplete, they claims the gospel that you have heard is incomplete. Their claims is that the preachers of today are using their earthly knowledge and own interpretations to preach the gospel. They say it should be is like the old times where we follow someone who has divine relations, like Paul or any of the other apostles. Note that they do recognize apostle is mere man, who is a vessle being used by God, like prophet. Also they do regonize that apostle can make mistakes/sin like any human does. But most of all, they claim he is an apostle.

 

[theLords]

I will private message you their website infos.

Baptism of fire, they asked me the same thing. Are you pentecostal?

They claim to be non-denominational. To paraphrase what they say: there is only one gospel, and yet we have many denominations today. This is due to men using their own knowledge to interpreted the bible instead of from God's inspiration. So we need to follow an apostle.

From my own observation, i say they lean towards Pentecostal heavily.

I am non-denominational. The Baptism of Fire is just a different way to say the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Well they say they do not contradict the message of Jesus Christ too. Their reason is that you think it contradicts because you misinterpretate the message of Jesus Christ. Like how Paul originally misinterpretate that Jesus must be cursed since he is hanged on a tree. So how do you correctly interpreate the bible and not use your ideas to interpareate? Well they say you need divine help, like from the Holy Spirit. Also people back in the day listened to the Apostles, so we should too.

I'm a little confused here. What exactly does this church teach about Paul/Jesus and Jesus being cursed. I know that you are referring to Galatians 3, but why do they say Paul "misinterprets" the Bible. (This is a major red flag here)

Galatians 3:10-14
10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”[e] 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”[f] 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”[g] 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”[h] 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

I wish it were that easy. They do not claim the bible is incomplete, they claims the gospel that you have heard is incomplete. Their claims is that the preachers of today are using their earthly knowledge and own interpretations to preach the gospel. They say it should be is like the old times where we follow someone who has divine relations, like Paul or any of the other apostles. Note that they do recognize apostle is mere man, who is a vessle being used by God, like prophet. Also they do regonize that apostle can make mistakes/sin like any human does. But most of all, they claim he is an apostle.

Okay, unfortunately, I'm a little more confused about this issue. Sorry!

tiwtiwtiw, what do you believe? What teachings were you taught? Let's start there so you can give a bit of your background for the purpose of understanding.

Allow me to state this:

The Office of the Apostle is a legit, Biblically supported, office, which is part of the 5 fold ministry.

The Baptism of Fire (The Holy Spirit) is also a legit, Biblically supported baptism.

Both of these understandings are found in many denominations, it is not tied to one particular denomination. Does that make sense?

There seems to be a lot of Biblical Truth mixed with some false doctrines, no wonder you feel uneasy! This is very confusing, indeed!

1 Corinthians 14:33
"For God is not the author of confusion..."

 

[tiwtiwtiw]

@theLords

Thanks for your understandings. Yes this is confusing and I'm sorry to burden it on whoever research into it.

Background on me: I raised in Christian family. No specific denomination. Baptized (full body in water) in a church. I go to Church every Sunday (mostly), and participates in fellowship with people near my age. During college, I organized retreats and teach bible study.

You must be thinking why am I asking this question here instead of discussing with my fellow peers and pastors?

I do not want to pose a question to them that would confuse them even more. Many of my peers are new Christians. This sort of thing would not help.

I also do not want to ask my elder/pastors. Currently the church I go to is a bit unstable with it's upper management. Also, I have tried before, it did not go well.

 

[tiwtiwtiw]

The thing about Paul, what I was trying to say was: Paul knows the bible very well and yet he misinterpret it believe Jesus was not the Messiah. He actually needed divine guidance to know this. So in the same way, that church says the pastors/preachers of today are misinterpreting the bible because they are all using their earthly knowledge. Only one who has divine guidance knows the truth of what the bible is saying, like how Paul was called later.

Baptism of fire. Their description is that you must be baptized like the men were in Acts 2. You must speak in tongues in other words. Is this what you mean? If not, what is the difference between baptism of water and baptism of fire?

 

[theLords]

Thanks for that. I'm going to stick to talking to you through PM so we don't have to have two conversations going at once!

 

[Alabaster]

The thing about Paul, what I was trying to say was: Paul knows the bible very well and yet he misinterpret it believe Jesus was not the Messiah. He actually needed divine guidance to know this. So in the same way, that church says the pastors/preachers of today are misinterpreting the bible because they are all using their earthly knowledge. Only one who has divine guidance knows the truth of what the bible is saying, like how Paul was called later.

I have heard of these beliefs before at another site which is rife with heretics who are given full rein to speak all manner of weird things. These people are delusional and are accepting teachings that fray the real core of truth.