Meeting a real apostle, today?

[Free]

As someone who grew up in a Christian family, I thought I know what’s right and wrong. Not too long ago, I was invited to a “Christian†church. I put quotes because it's validity is in question here.

• They have a leader among them who is considered as an apostle. Here are my observations of major differences with the general Christian faith:
• Their leader is claimed to be an apostle who have directly heard God’s voice/instructions.
• Gospel we’ve (today’s Christians) received is incomplete
• Those who believe in God with the incomplete gospel will not go to hell, but cannot enter heaven either. They will reside outside of heaven, regretting their life. Only those who accepts the full gospel can enter heaven. (with exceptions of those incapable i.e., infant death, retardation, etc.)
• A church rejects an apostle’s leadership is not properly guided by God. In other words, all of today’s churches who know of his (the apostle) existence must let him lead.
• Baptize must be full body under water, otherwise not baptized. (with exceptions of those incapable i.e., Believe right before death, no suitable facility)
• Worship and prayer must include speaking/singing in tongues

Sounds like a cult? well I think so. I very much like to dismiss them as a cult and move on with my Christian life. However they have bible verses to backup everything they say. Discuss with them shows they know the bible very well, better than I. I’m having trouble determining where their teachings are wrong. If I can't find fault in their belief, does that mean they are right? That I should follow this apostle? Please someone help me out! Where are they wrong???

• If need their bible verses that they use to support each of the above, I have upon request.
• If want to know their church’s name and the apostle’s name, I can give you privately. I will not post it publicly.
• If want to see their church’s official website, I can provide upon request

~desperate and confused!

Run.

 

[barelohim]

Eph 4 says there is a five fold ministry to the body of Christ! Apostles being one!

Paul said, " Follow me, for I follow Christ!" And again..." the believers, at least some, found Paul to be like a father to them! Even believing he was likened unto Christ himself!

But the key to understanding those ministries and those of them that are true...is how much like Christ, in nature and character are they possessing? One can't give what they don't have.

Since Pauls ministry was to work with the believers of his charge to bring them into the place of Christ being fully formed in them, then this is what to examine in any who would have you surrendered unto them and their teaching.

One becomes, as their teacher... So KNOW YOUR TEACHER!

If one is being taught by the Spirit of Gods revelation privately, there should be confirmation of what they have come to know, from those they listen to...

Test the Spirit of this *apostle* to see if he be of God!

When I was holding bible studies in peoples homes across this land, many tested me, by asking God, that if I were of God, I would be found teaching on certain sujbjects, or topics, or passages of scripture they had in mind, that evening.

Paul said, I am an apostle to those who receive me as one. Meaning he wasn't to those that believed he wasn't..

Test the Spirit!

Barelohim.

 

[jasoncran]

not to be rude, by what makes you believe that you hold the apostle office? as the bible indicates only twelve are written on the wall of the descending holy city of new jerusalem?

and i am charismatic. but i'm very berean in nature.

 

[Free]

not to be rude, by what makes you believe that you hold the apostle office? as the bible indicates only twelve are written on the wall of the descending holy city of new jerusalem?

and i am charismatic. but i'm very berean in nature.

Something worth noting is that the Christian sects that believe in apostles for today, and the "apostles" that lead them, often have some of the most aberrant and erroneous theology out there.

 

[jasoncran]

Something worth noting is that the Christian sects that believe in apostles for today, and the "apostles" that lead them, often have some of the most aberrant and erroneous theology out there.

i agree. i have seen that as i have a coworker who has that in his church. so i see it first hand.

 

[Alabaster]

Scripture teaches us that the gift of apostle is included in the 'list' of gifts that Holy Spirit bestows on the Church.

Better find out what it means, people, and discover what that gift entails. There are many out there with it.

 

[jasoncran]

Scripture teaches us that the gift of apostle is included in the 'list' of gifts that Holy Spirit bestows on the Church.

Better find out what it means, people, and discover what that gift entails. There are many out there with it.

you are confusin the five fold ministry with the gifts of the holy ghost.

the five fold is just after that verse that says jesus set the captives free and held captive captivity(meaning sin was bound by him at the cross and we set free) then it says and he gave men gifts
some apostles, some pastors, some prophets and some teachers ,and some evanglists

the problem here that the apostle are only going to be 12 as the walls and the foundation of the faith are the apostles and Jesus.

the walls of the city afformentioned are the 12 we commonly see and hear about.

 

[Alabaster]

you are confusin the five fold ministry with the gifts of the holy ghost.

the five fold is just after that verse that says jesus set the captives free and held captive captivity(meaning sin was bound by him at the cross and we set free) then it says and he gave men gifts
some apostles, some pastors, some prophets and some teachers ,and some evanglists

the problem here that the apostle are only going to be 12 as the walls and the foundation of the faith are the apostles and Jesus.

the walls of the city afformentioned are the 12 we commonly see and hear about.

There is no confusion here.

Twelve are honoured in the city of God, but there are countless apostles in the Body of Christ.

Ephesians 4:11-16
11 Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers. 12 Their responsibility is to equip God’s people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ. 13 This will continue until we all come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ. 14 Then we will no longer be immature like children. We won’t be tossed and blown about by every wind of new teaching. We will not be influenced when people try to trick us with lies so clever they sound like the truth. 15 Instead, we will speak the truth in love, growing in every way more and more like Christ, who is the head of his body, the church. 16 He makes the whole body fit together perfectly. As each part does its own special work, it helps the other parts grow, so that the whole body is healthy and growing and full of love.

 

[jasoncran]

Twelve are honoured in the city of God, but there are countless apostles in the Body of Christ.

Ephesians 4:11-16
11 Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers. 12 Their responsibility is to equip God’s people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ. 13 This will continue until we all come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ. 14 Then we will no longer be immature like children. We won’t be tossed and blown about by every wind of new teaching. We will not be influenced when people try to trick us with lies so clever they sound like the truth. 15 Instead, we will speak the truth in love, growing in every way more and more like Christ, who is the head of his body, the church. 16 He makes the whole body fit together perfectly. As each part does its own special work, it helps the other parts grow, so that the whole body is healthy and growing and full of love.

i dont know how long you have been saved but i have found very few if any of those so called "apostles" grounded in the faith.
as they do what free says.

the last one i listened too was on tv and she claimed the title of apostle/prophet and was a prosperity /seed faith type. one doenst need to bribe a man to give with promises of blessings to get what you need for finances. simply ask and tell the audience what you need and also believe god will provide.

 

[Alabaster]

i dont know how long you have been saved but i have found very few if any of those so called "apostles" grounded in the faith.
as they do what free says.

the last one i listened too was on tv and she claimed the title of apostle/prophet and was a prosperity /seed faith type. one doenst need to bribe a man to give with promises of blessings to get what you need for finances. simply ask and tell the audience what you need and also believe god will provide.

Try 48 years.

What you describe isn't an apostolic gifting.

 

[jasoncran]

you do realise that title apostle simply means one who is sent. what i do find odd if that office is the highest and most responsible of them all why didnt paul or other make a rule or guide line by them. as with bishops and pastors?

 

[Alabaster]

you do realise that title apostle simply means one who is sent.

Do you realize that?

what i do find odd if that office is the highest and most responsible of them all why didnt paul or other make a rule or guide line by them. as with bishops and pastors?

Who says it is the highest 'office'? All gifts, callings and offices work together as parts of a whole. Each has its own importance to the Body of Christ. None is more important than the other.

 

[tiwtiwtiw]

Run.

Haha. short and sweet.

Unfortunately, now-a-days, no matter where I run, I will encounter these kind of things. It's better to deal with it.

Paul said, " Follow me, for I follow Christ!"

Where does it say that?

If one is being taught by the Spirit of Gods revelation privately, there should be confirmation of what they have come to know, from those they listen to...

Yea he got some confirmations from other witnesses. So it's not a Joseph Smith situation where he alone saw it all.

Test the Spirit of this *apostle* to see if he be of God!

How do you suggest we do that?

I am an apostle to those who receive me as one.

Would like to know where it says this too.

as the bible indicates only twelve are written on the wall of the descending holy city of new jerusalem?

This is the perfect evidence I would need! Please let me know where it says that!! ... now ur sure it's talking about the 12 apostles and not the 12 tribes of Israel right? There's alot of 12'ves in the bible.

Scripture teaches us that the gift of apostle is included in the 'list' of gifts that Holy Spirit bestows on the Church.

Better find out what it means, people, and discover what that gift entails. There are many out there with it.

so ... ur saying... possible for apostles to exist in this age? like today?

Try 48 years.

Brothers, let's not compare years. More years doesn't necessarily means greater understand in God, and less years doesn't automatically means little faith.

 

[tiwtiwtiw]

@Alabaster

what, would you say, is considered a genuine apostle then?

 

[jasoncran]

the twelve apostle by name. not the tribes and the twelve didnt list all their related tribes and that wouldnt work

james and john the sons of zebedee would be the same tribe thus knocking that one out.

 

[jasoncran]

revalation 21:14 is that verse.

 

[Alabaster]

@Alabaster

what, would you say, is considered a genuine apostle then?

The apostle:

Plants churches
1 Corinthians 3:10-11, Galatians 1:6-10, 3:13

Takes the gospel to unreached places
Romans 15:20

Appoints and trains leaders
Acts 14:21-23 and Titus 1:5

Deals with doctrinal problems and sin
1 Corinthians 1:1-16:24 and Acts 15

Networks churches and promotes unity
1 Corinthians 16:1-4, Ephesians 4:1-16, Romans 15:25-27

Demonstrates and imparts the supernatural
2 Timothy 1:6-7, 2 Corinthians 12:12, Acts 4:33, Acts 8:4-20, Acts 10:44-46, Acts 19:16

Does no manipulation or self promotion (a biggie, and one characteristic that helps us all rule out those who are self-appointed and not God appointed!)
2 Corinthians 11:7-15

Is a servant who does not demand financial guarantees
2 Corinthians 12:14-18

Will not merchandise the gospel
John 2:13-17, Hebrews 3:1

Bears humility in adversity
1 Corinthians 4:9-13

Mark of the cross - personal crucifixion
2 Corinthians 1:3-7, Philippians 3:17-21

Faithful financial stewards
Acts 4:33-37

 

[jasoncran]

so you must believe in the sign gifts then.

and while the jury is out on that for today. i do see the the everday christian who prays will do things that can include the miraclous.

i'v seen a few myself.

 

[tiwtiwtiw]

revalation 21:14 is that verse.

Didn't they replace Judas to make the full 12? But then isn't Paul the 13th?

The apostle:

Plants churches
1 Corinthians 3:10-11, Galatians 1:6-10, 3:13

Takes the gospel to unreached places
Romans 15:20

Appoints and trains leaders
Acts 14:21-23 and Titus 1:5

Deals with doctrinal problems and sin
1 Corinthians 1:1-16:24 and Acts 15

Networks churches and promotes unity
1 Corinthians 16:1-4, Ephesians 4:1-16, Romans 15:25-27

Demonstrates and imparts the supernatural
2 Timothy 1:6-7, 2 Corinthians 12:12, Acts 4:33, Acts 8:4-20, Acts 10:44-46, Acts 19:16

Does no manipulation or self promotion (a biggie, and one characteristic that helps us all rule out those who are self-appointed and not God appointed!)
2 Corinthians 11:7-15

Is a servant who does not demand financial guarantees
2 Corinthians 12:14-18

Will not merchandise the gospel
John 2:13-17, Hebrews 3:1

Bears humility in adversity
1 Corinthians 4:9-13

Mark of the cross - personal crucifixion
2 Corinthians 1:3-7, Philippians 3:17-21

Faithful financial stewards
Acts 4:33-37

The apostle in question satisfies all of these... which disturbs me a bit more.

He planted many churches, brought gospel to unreached places, trained leaders...

Deals with doctrinal problems, which is a reason why I'm in this forum! to discuss his doctrinal corrections!

He would say he promotes church unity in a way that he rejects church of today's many denominations. Church he plants are not affiliated with any denomination... which is one of the reasons y his church is labeled as cult.

Supernatrual demonstrations? yes he has some, he's not completely... normal. as in you and me normal.

No self promotion? well technically he never promotes himself. It's more like people of his church promotes him. He doesn't ask them to promote him though. Also he can't be there every second to denounce them from promoting him.

Financial guarantees. He's DEFINATELY not doing this for financial gain/gurarantees. This is what I got from seeing how he lives.

Does not merchandise, see previous on financial.

Humility. That can be subjective in a way. But same for promotion, I never hear him promoting himself.

Mark of cross. He has suffered ALOT, physical and mentally for the sake of the gospel he is preaching.

financial stewards
They open the church for other thigns than worship. They allow people without homes to stay... and food, and all sorts of stewards.



Don't want to write too much point by point here, but please ask if need me to be more detailed on any point I've responded to.

 

[Alabaster]

Didn't they replace Judas to make the full 12? But then isn't Paul the 13th?



The apostle in question satisfies all of these... which disturbs me a bit more.

He planted many churches, brought gospel to unreached places, trained leaders...

Deals with doctrinal problems, which is a reason why I'm in this forum! to discuss his doctrinal corrections!

He would say he promotes church unity in a way that he rejects church of today's many denominations. Church he plants are not affiliated with any denomination... which is one of the reasons y his church is labeled as cult.

Supernatrual demonstrations? yes he has some, he's not completely... normal. as in you and me normal.

No self promotion? well technically he never promotes himself. It's more like people of his church promotes him. He doesn't ask them to promote him though. Also he can't be there every second to denounce them from promoting him.

Financial guarantees. He's DEFINATELY not doing this for financial gain/gurarantees. This is what I got from seeing how he lives.

Does not merchandise, see previous on financial.

Humility. That can be subjective in a way. But same for promotion, I never hear him promoting himself.

Mark of cross. He has suffered ALOT, physical and mentally for the sake of the gospel he is preaching.

financial stewards
They open the church for other thigns than worship. They allow people without homes to stay... and food, and all sorts of stewards.



Don't want to write too much point by point here, but please ask if need me to be more detailed on any point I've responded to.

If this person fits, then what's the problem?