Message to GOD"S elect

[George Muller]

Everyone who chooses to do the will of God, does so because they make the choice to.

He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, "O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will." Matthew 26:39

You make my point, and don't seem to even understand that ONE IS DOING GODS WILL, and ALL ability comes from Gods Spirit or its not obedience. So "free-will" does not describe obedience, but only disobedience.

The term "free-will" is just unbiblical, and can never prove anything but disobedience. Obedience is to surrender to and to walk in Gods Will.

You keep using the thought that if one has a choice then one has "free-will" ? One can choose their own will, or to surrender to Gods Will. If one "chooses to walk in their own free will, that is disobedience. If one surrenders to the Will of God, that is surrendered will and obedience. We are called "slaves" of Christ, yes in that we submit our will to His with gladness, we are slaves of His Love. But obedience IS NEVER IN THE WILL OF MAN.

 

[George Muller]

All disobedience is a product of ones own "will"



Yes George, because they have to choose.

Because they have a free will, they have to choose to do God's will rather than their own will.

If you have taken up your cross today, and have crucified your will, then YOU have nothing to do with anything, it is Christ in you who does God's will.

You have to take up your cross daily in order to allow Him to do God's will, not you.

It is your choice to take up your cross daily or not.

"They have to choose" If you "must" do something, then its not "free-will" Again free-will describes disobedience, not obedience. You keep using the term "you have to" and claim that is free-will? If you "have to" that is surrendered will.

 

[George Muller]

What George is saying is that the use of human will is never positive because it is corrupted by being in Adam's fall. In original sin we receive sin nature, or a nature of rebellion and anger against God. Here is a verse on rebellious corrupt human nature...
3 among whom we also all once lived in the lust of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:--

Thank you mondar, this is my point and this is the essence of understanding the gospel. Until one sees the natural condition of man, they will not go to the Cross and be crucified. Now I am not a Calvinist, but on this issue they always make the "free-will" groups look silly and none of them can defend the will of man as being acceptable by any standard of the gospel.

 

[JLB]

One can choose their own will, or to surrender to Gods Will. If one "chooses to walk in their own free will, that is disobedience.

If one surrenders to the Will of God, that is surrendered will and obedience.

You using an unbiblical term. "Surrendered will" is not listed in the scriptures. In fact, the word surrender is not listed in the New Testament.

Whether I use the term free will, or you use the term surrendered will, the both mean that a person has a choice.

A person has the ability to choose to obey God's will.

A person has the ability to choose to obey Satan's will.

A person has the ability to choose to obey their own will.


JLB

 

[George Muller]

One can choose their own will, or to surrender to Gods Will. If one "chooses to walk in their own free will, that is disobedience.

If one surrenders to the Will of God, that is surrendered will and obedience.

You using an unbiblical term. "Surrendered will" is not listed in the scriptures. In fact, the word surrender is not listed in the New Testament.

Whether I use the term free will, or you use the term surrendered will, the both mean that a person has a choice.

A person has the ability to choose to obey God's will.

A person has the ability to choose to obey Satan's will.

A person has the ability to choose to obey their own will.


JLB

So to you "surrendered will" is a unbiblical term? But "free-will" is biblical? Ok, then I will use the term "crucified" will, if that helps you gets past the vain legalism of mans religion?
And of course you make these random and unbiblical statements, A person CANNOT obey Gods will, until they surrender "crucify" their own and are empowered by the Holy Spirit.
All who are not in the "will" of the Spirit, are in effect in the "will of satan" among whom we also all once lived in the lust of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath,

So the whole idea and concept of "free-will" religion is just satanic, and another attempt by carnal men to establish a religion of the "flesh"- For only those who walk in the flesh, do not understand that to "walk in the Spirit", means to surrender "crucify" ones own will and to be led by the will of the Spirit.

Ro 9:16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.

Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Joh 1:13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Free-will religion is about as silly as anything mans religion has come up with, since they put the Holy Spirit in that little can they shake around.:toofunny

 

[JLB]

So the whole idea and concept of "free-will" religion is just satanic, and another attempt by carnal men to establish a religion of the "flesh"- For only those who walk in the flesh, do not understand that to "walk in the Spirit", means to surrender "crucify" ones own will and to be led by the will of the Spirit.

The very definition of witchcraft is the use of demons to bend another persons will to their own.

On the other hand, in Christ we have freedom and liberty.

Freedom from the bondage of sin. Being set free from the slavery of sin and the desires of the sinful nature.

Now we can freely choose to serve the living God every day with joy.

For whom the Son sets free is free indeed.

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

Who makes the choice to walk in the flesh or in the Spirit? You or God?

We have been set free from the bondage of the dominion of darkness, but we must still choose to walk in the Spirit, rather than walking in the flesh.

We all have choices to make everyday, to sow to the Spirit or sow to the flesh.

To read the bible or read something worldly and carnal.

To build ourselves up on our most holy faith by praying in the Holy Ghost or watching TV.

Spend time with the Lord in our prayer closet, worshiping Him or entertaining ourselves.

To fast and pray or indulge ourselves.

These are choices that we as children of God face every day.


JLB

 

[mondar]

So the whole idea and concept of "free-will" religion is just satanic, and another attempt by carnal men to establish a religion of the "flesh"- For only those who walk in the flesh, do not understand that to "walk in the Spirit", means to surrender "crucify" ones own will and to be led by the will of the Spirit.

The very definition of witchcraft is the use of demons to bend another persons will to their own.
On the other hand, in Christ we have freedom and liberty.
Freedom from the bondage of sin. Being set free from the slavery of sin and the desires of the sinful nature.
Now we can freely choose to serve the living God every day with joy.
For whom the Son sets free is free indeed.
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1
Who makes the choice to walk in the flesh or in the Spirit? You or God?
We have been set free from the bondage of the dominion of darkness, but we must still choose to walk in the Spirit, rather than walking in the flesh.
We all have choices to make everyday, to sow to the Spirit or sow to the flesh.
To read the bible or read something worldly and carnal.
To build ourselves up on our most holy faith by praying in the Holy Ghost or watching TV.
Spend time with the Lord in our prayer closet, worshiping Him or entertaining ourselves.
To fast and pray or indulge ourselves.
These are choices that we as children of God face every day.
JLB

JBL, your muddying the issue. I do not think you realize it, but you are muddying the issue. George freely admits that in Christ we have freedom and liberty to serve him. That of course is not the same as saying those who are not in Christ have the free will to come to Christ in faith. Your comparing apples and oranges. Its non-sequitur.

Also, I would still question the term freedom and liberty with reference to being in Christ. While we still have the freedom to sin, we do not have freedom of rebellion. We are now by nature a child of God.

To glorify the concept of freedom is a common abusrdity. The less freedom the better, and no free will is the best thing possible. In heaven we will have no freedom at all. We will be totally righteous and unable to sin.

However, while unbelievers, we are slaves of sin and have no freedom to do what is righteous and believe. In romans 6:17 the word "servant" could possibly be translated "slave." Before the work of God in giving us faith, we were slaves of our sin nature and rebels.
Rom 6:17 But thanks be to God, that, whereas ye were servants of sin, ye became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching whereunto ye were delivered;

By nature, we do not seek God. No one seeks God.
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, There is none that seeketh after God;

 

[Elijah674]

So the whole idea and concept of "free-will" religion is just satanic, and another attempt by carnal men to establish a religion of the "flesh"- For only those who walk in the flesh, do not understand that to "walk in the Spirit", means to surrender "crucify" ones own will and to be led by the will of the Spirit.

The very definition of witchcraft is the use of demons to bend another persons will to their own.
On the other hand, in Christ we have freedom and liberty.
Freedom from the bondage of sin. Being set free from the slavery of sin and the desires of the sinful nature.
Now we can freely choose to serve the living God every day with joy.
For whom the Son sets free is free indeed.
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1
Who makes the choice to walk in the flesh or in the Spirit? You or God?
We have been set free from the bondage of the dominion of darkness, but we must still choose to walk in the Spirit, rather than walking in the flesh.
We all have choices to make everyday, to sow to the Spirit or sow to the flesh.
To read the bible or read something worldly and carnal.
To build ourselves up on our most holy faith by praying in the Holy Ghost or watching TV.
Spend time with the Lord in our prayer closet, worshiping Him or entertaining ourselves.
To fast and pray or indulge ourselves.
These are choices that we as children of God face every day.
JLB

JBL, your muddying the issue. I do not think you realize it, but you are muddying the issue. George freely admits that in Christ we have freedom and liberty to serve him. That of course is not the same as saying those who are not in Christ have the free will to come to Christ in faith. Your comparing apples and oranges. Its non-sequitur.

Also, I would still question the term freedom and liberty with reference to being in Christ. While we still have the freedom to sin, we do not have freedom of rebellion. We are now by nature a child of God.

To glorify the concept of freedom is a common abusrdity. The less freedom the better, and no free will is the best thing possible. In heaven we will have no freedom at all. We will be totally righteous and unable to sin.

However, while unbelievers, we are slaves of sin and have no freedom to do what is righteous and believe. In romans 6:17 the word "servant" could possibly be translated "slave." Before the work of God in giving us faith, we were slaves of our sin nature and rebels.
Rom 6:17 But thanks be to God, that, whereas ye were servants of sin, ye became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching whereunto ye were delivered;

By nature, we do not seek God. No one seeks God.
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, There is none that seeketh after God;

We will be righteous without a doubt. But still NO freedom, 'i' doubt that? Christ will carry the scares in His hands & a pierces side for our reflection of what sin did cost! Yet, I question 1 John 5:16 & 17 with the sin not unto death remark. (or why have the marks on Christ?)

No, I think that Nahum 1:9 means that we [THAT ARE ALL SAVED] will be safe to save throughout Eternity, yet will be Eternally reminded if need be, of what the cost of sin was! The crucifying of Christ & His re/crucifying afresh as seen in Heb. 6:6!

--Elijah

 

[JLB]

While we still have the freedom to sin, we do not have freedom of rebellion.

Please give chapter and verse for this statement.

To glorify the concept of freedom is a common abusrdity.

I haven't seen anyone in this thread "Glorify" the concept of freedom.

I simply believe we have a free will to choose, before and after being born again.

In heaven we will have no freedom at all. We will be totally righteous and unable to sin.

Yeah, like the angels who sinned in the Days of Noah!

4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 2 Peter 2:4-5

Please give chapter and verse for your above mentioned statement.


JLB

 

[George Muller]

So the whole idea and concept of "free-will" religion is just satanic, and another attempt by carnal men to establish a religion of the "flesh"- For only those who walk in the flesh, do not understand that to "walk in the Spirit", means to surrender "crucify" ones own will and to be led by the will of the Spirit.

The very definition of witchcraft is the use of demons to bend another persons will to their own.

On the other hand, in Christ we have freedom and liberty.

Freedom from the bondage of sin. Being set free from the slavery of sin and the desires of the sinful nature.

Now we can freely choose to serve the living God every day with joy.

For whom the Son sets free is free indeed.

1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1

Who makes the choice to walk in the flesh or in the Spirit? You or God?

We have been set free from the bondage of the dominion of darkness, but we must still choose to walk in the Spirit, rather than walking in the flesh.

We all have choices to make everyday, to sow to the Spirit or sow to the flesh.

To read the bible or read something worldly and carnal.

To build ourselves up on our most holy faith by praying in the Holy Ghost or watching TV.

Spend time with the Lord in our prayer closet, worshiping Him or entertaining ourselves.

To fast and pray or indulge ourselves.

These are choices that we as children of God face every day.


JLB

Very nice speech JLB, but that's all it is. It has no point in truth. Paul described "witchcraft" as being turned from Grace and the spirit, back to the law and self-will. Yes One must surrender to the Spirit to walk in the Spirit, that is not free-will. One "chooses" to reject ones own will. So again all free-will can produce is disobedience, not obedience.

And again you say one "must" do this or that, That is not "free-will" Now please just save your speech and lets be honest about this unbiblical term "free-will"

 

[JLB]

back to the law and self-will.

Why does everything with you seem to be associated with the Law?

Adam chose to disobey God thousands of years before the Law.

This statement alone, makes everything you just said unreliable.

Now please just save your speech and lets be honest about this unbiblical term "free-will"

Show me in my post # 126 which you just quoted, where I used the term "free will".

You seem to have run out of any truth to respond with.


JLB

 

[josefnospam]

Gr8grace In answer to your four questions. I AM a man in the flesh. We all are. It's where the spirit temporairly lives .#2 The salvation of the Lord is not a feeling and I cannot recall when such a wonderfull event happened to me. #3 All faith comes from Christ and not all have the same faith. It's Good if you believe only in him......Thats the only way. Believe and trust in HIM. Don't worry about others but "work out YOUR salvation with fear and trembling".....Philippians 2:12

#4 As far as the Elect of God, God knows who are his but no man can know for sure who is and is not. "My sheep hear my voice and I know them, and they follow me. John 11:27 God knows the heart of men. For someone to say you are, or are not his ,makes that person a judge. We are not the judge of anyone. I do so hope these questions are leading you to him by his calling. Praise the Lord if this is so ,with all your being and keep seeking him on his terms. Who knows if he is calling you? I surely hope so. That's what he does. Calls his people out of darkness into light..............The bottom line...............keep.believing and trust in him alone as your Saviour admitting you are helpless before a most merciful God. May he richly bless you as only he can do.

 

[George Muller]

back to the law and self-will.

Why does everything with you seem to be associated with the Law?

Adam chose to disobey God thousands of years before the Law.

This statement alone, makes everything you just said unreliable.

Now please just save your speech and lets be honest about this unbiblical term "free-will"

Show me in my post # 126 which you just quoted, where I used the term "free will".

You seem to have run out of any truth to respond with.


JLB

You used the term "witchcraft" I gave a biblical response to How Paul used the term. Yes "free-will" has a direct link to the flesh. Which is related directly to those who trust in their own ability, of course you would not understand that relationship.

Yes "free-will" always disobeys , and the reason for the law was to prove to man that he could not obey.

If you have now rejected the unbiblical term "free-will" then I have done a honest bit of work, glad you reject that term as well. Too bad it is taught in most churches.

 

[Deborah13]

back to the law and self-will.

Why does everything with you seem to be associated with the Law?

Adam chose to disobey God thousands of years before the Law.

This statement alone, makes everything you just said unreliable.

Now please just save your speech and lets be honest about this unbiblical term "free-will"

Show me in my post # 126 which you just quoted, where I used the term "free will".

You seem to have run out of any truth to respond with.


JLB

JLB, what is your interpretation of this scripture please. I've asked on other threads, the no free will threads, never got an answer. Thanks

2 Corinthians 5:19-20
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

 

[farouk]

One can choose their own will, or to surrender to Gods Will. If one "chooses to walk in their own free will, that is disobedience.

If one surrenders to the Will of God, that is surrendered will and obedience.

You using an unbiblical term. "Surrendered will" is not listed in the scriptures. In fact, the word surrender is not listed in the New Testament.

Whether I use the term free will, or you use the term surrendered will, the both mean that a person has a choice.

A person has the ability to choose to obey God's will.

A person has the ability to choose to obey Satan's will.

A person has the ability to choose to obey their own will.


JLB

'Surrendered will': how about: 'Thy will be done'.

 

[JLB]

back to the law and self-will.

Why does everything with you seem to be associated with the Law?

Adam chose to disobey God thousands of years before the Law.

This statement alone, makes everything you just said unreliable.

Now please just save your speech and lets be honest about this unbiblical term "free-will"

Show me in my post # 126 which you just quoted, where I used the term "free will".

You seem to have run out of any truth to respond with.


JLB

You used the term "witchcraft" I gave a biblical response to How Paul used the term. Yes "free-will" has a direct link to the flesh. Which is related directly to those who trust in their own ability, of course you would not understand that relationship.

Yes "free-will" always disobeys , and the reason for the law was to prove to man that he could not obey.


If you have now rejected the unbiblical term "free-will" then I have done a honest bit of work, glad you reject that term as well. Too bad it is taught in most churches.

I haven't seen any "biblical" response from you on witchcraft.

Yes "free-will" has a direct link to the flesh. Which is related directly to those who trust in their own ability, of course you would not understand that relationship.

Please show the scripture that states free will has a direct link to the flesh.

Please show where the only purpose of witchcraft is to turn people to the law of Moses.


JLB

 

[JLB]

back to the law and self-will.

Why does everything with you seem to be associated with the Law?

Adam chose to disobey God thousands of years before the Law.

This statement alone, makes everything you just said unreliable.

Now please just save your speech and lets be honest about this unbiblical term "free-will"

Show me in my post # 126 which you just quoted, where I used the term "free will".

You seem to have run out of any truth to respond with.


JLB

JLB, what is your interpretation of this scripture please. I've asked on other threads, the no free will threads, never got an answer. Thanks

2 Corinthians 5:19-20
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Could you be a little more specific with your question, as to how this pertains to "free will"?


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

Could you be a little more specific with your question, as to how this pertains to "free will"?

I think it is saying that we have to do the reconciling, the choosing. God did His part in Christ. I do believe He draws us to Him but He wants us to choose.

 

[JLB]

Could you be a little more specific with your question, as to how this pertains to "free will"?

I think it is saying that we have to do the reconciling, the choosing. God did His part in Christ. I do believe He draws us to Him but He wants us to choose.

Yes.

Now that we are in Christ, He continues His ministry of reconciliation through us, as His ambassadors.

That is however, if we are walking in the Spirit and not the flesh, that is where we have to choose.

Choose to be yielded to the leading of the Holy Spirit.

As many as are led by The Spirit of God, these are the sons of God.


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

That is however, if we are walking in the Spirit and not the flesh, that is where we have to choose.

I agree. Thanks for your response.