Message to GOD"S elect

[Deborah13]

So sorry for the long post . I tend to talk too much but this matter of a mans will is of the highest importance today as the truth is rarely heard today and instead is replaced with a man glorifing doctrine of what the man did may do or will do or say.

Don't worry about the long post. It is funny how you say your doctrine is not taught and they will say your doctrine is and theirs is not.

I've been trying to understanding why we have such a disconnect in church doctrine. And no, it's at all because the "devil" is in the other doctrine, or the other doctrine is "full of pride". How much do you know about the OT and how it pertains to the NT. God didn't change, what pleases Him didn't change. There isn't one truth in the OT and a different truth in the NT.
How do you say that men came to know God in the OT? Was their salvation the same as ours?

 

[josefnospam]

Exactly the same. By Jesus Christ the Lord and saviour of all. The Ot speaks of and looked forward to Christ. If we don't see Christ in every page of scripture from begining to end we miss the message. The old testament is so rich with historical accounts and pictures and types of Christ. Every thing prophised in the OT was fullfilled by Christ in the new testament. I LOVE the OT and especially Isaiah. The OT spoke of Sacrifices made of blood, and this always looked forward to his sacrifce of his blood. Christ was the lamb slain before the foudations of the world Rev. 13:8 Noah found Grace in God's eyes. I've been studying Numbers lately and it is so good on a verse by verse bases. I find it a little hard to work though all the names and geneology but take the time to do so.

Isaiah says I(the Lord) will punish the world for their evil and the wicked for their iniquity, Isaiah 13:11 How can anyone say this does not apply to us today.
For instance did you know Isaiah walked complety naked for three years, while telling the Egyptians they would also walk naked before the King of Assyria to the shame of Egypt. They did not believe Isaiah then and so many do not believe God today. Isaiah was God's prophet and he spoke of the LORD. When Isaiah says I (the Lord) form the light and I create darkness: I make peace and create evil: I the lord do all these things. Isaiah 45:7 people who say God is the God of love only, miss half the picture. Anyway I love the OT and read it often.

God does not change but our Lord came and fullfilled all things. We no longer make ANY sacrifices because Christ was the perfect Sacrifice.
We longer are under the curse of the Law because Christ took the curse away from his children and now we are under his grace.
We no longer worship on a certain day because we rest in him, not in keeping a day or a doctrine of men or anything else. WE simply trust in him.

All God's people are saved by the Grace of Jesus Christ the Lord. Ot, Nt and today. There is no other way.

However we MAY be living in the time of his return. If we die first, or he comes back a to get his people, either way we will get to see him as he really is................I hope he hurrys but know he will get here in his time. Meanwhile, we his people will give all the honor, and glory to him as he allows us to do so.............I believe their are people alive today who have never heard his gospel. And this freewill Gospil saves NO ONE.

 

[josefnospam]

Thank you to all who put up with my long posts. I will try to keep them short. I just get excited and want to tell of his glory and Love for his people.
I think this is something all his people want to do................He included me and thats amazing because I surely don't deserve such wonderfull mercy.
If he included you tell the world what he has done.
Goodnight and God Bless......................................................................................................................

 

[George Muller]

Well, Paul uses the term election here to describe the natural offspring of the Fathers.

We know that the covenant The Lord made with Abraham, certainly included Gentiles.

When we as gentiles confess Jesus as Lord we are now grafted in that group of the elect ones.

This is the "basic" understanding that comes from the scriptures.

If they are called elect, as the natural offspring of the fathers, then who was the elect before the fathers?


JLB

So what? The term is used throughout the New Testament to describe Gods "choice" in that He selects and picks those who are His. So not sure you even understand how this term is used or even what it means? Get out of that religious debate mindset and you might understand that the "BIBLE" describes what the bible means, not religious tradition.

Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
12 ¶ Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

Read the book, it explains itself

Again you make my point.

Jesus is the elect One, because we are in covenant with Him we are elect.

Because we are in Christ, as the elect, does not erase the truth of what Paul has stated in Romans -

28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. Romans 11:28-31


JLB

Again I do not see your point?

The term is used to describe both Jew and gentile, and as it is written there is no Jew or Gentile as it relates to those who are IN CHRIST. Read again;
Col 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
12 ¶ Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

 

[George Muller]

If anyone glories in what he has done, he is decieved and still under God's wrath. These are harsh words to many but God knows who are his and who are not.

Wow again this is what so many fail to see, this is why so many in the "church" are in a condition of rebellion and are under Gods judgment, not because He desires that, but because they reject grace in its absolute terms. As the Lord told the religious class of His day, do not think that I condemn you, there is one who condemns you, Moses in whom you trust. Those who trust in "works" of religion of the flesh, bring judgment upon themselves. Self-effort, self-will, self-righteousness, all must be crucified. Anything that leaves room for "boasting" is a rejection of the gospel.

 

[George Muller]

I've been trying to understanding why we have such a disconnect in church doctrine. And no, it's at all because the "devil" is in the other doctrine, or the other doctrine is "full of pride".

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Here is the focus of all truth and Godliness "as He is so are we in this world"


1Ti 4:1 ¶ Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth

Here is the root of all false doctrine, "seducing spirits" that teach "hypocrisy" and carnal rules such as those imposed by the law. "self-effort" "self-righteousness" "self-will" is doctrines brought into the church by devils.

 

[JLB]

Here is the focus of all truth and Godliness "as He is so are we in this world"

The Gospel of election says; God only loves the "elect" and sent His Son to die for them.

The truth says for God so loved the world...

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:16

whoever believes in Him should not perish.

and again -

7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. 9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us. 13 By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. 16 And we have known and believed the love that God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God in him. 17 Love has been perfected among us in this: that we may have boldness in the day of judgment; because as He is, so are we in this world. 1 John 4:7-17


The Gospel of election sounds like "another" gospel.


JLB

 

[Eventide]

The Gospel of election says;

God only loves the "elect" and sent His Son to die for them.

The Gospel of election sounds like "another" gospel.

JLB

It's the gospel that affords men to constantly talk about themselves as being "the elect", while rarely, if ever, acknowledging the ONE who actually is the elect.

 

[JLB]

The Gospel of election says;

God only loves the "elect" and sent His Son to die for them.

The Gospel of election sounds like "another" gospel.

JLB

It's the gospel that affords men to constantly talk about themselves as being "the elect", while rarely, if ever, acknowledging the ONE who actually is the elect.

Ouch!

 

[Deborah13]

2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Hypocrisy = Not practicing what one Preaches

"self-righteousness"

I agree, Self-righteousness, is not the Gospel of Grace!

The TRUE Gospel of Grace, teaches many things, one of which is Graciousness.

In fact, there is a wonderful example of a Grace preacher that practices what he preaches, right here in this Forum. One might be interested and take a look in the Bible Study forum, at a recent thread there. One will see grace in action, not just words.
As James says, actions speak louder then words.

 

[reba]

Amen Deb

 

[Pizzaguy]

The Gospel of election says;

God only loves the "elect" and sent His Son to die for them.

The Gospel of election sounds like "another" gospel.

JLB

It's the gospel that affords men to constantly talk about themselves as being "the elect", while rarely, if ever, acknowledging the ONE who actually is the elect.

Dare I say it's the FALSE gospel that affords men to constantly talk about themselves as being "the elect", while rarely, if ever, acknowledging the ONE who actually is the elect?

 

[Deborah13]

Wow again this is what so many fail to see, this is why so many in the "church" are in a condition of rebellion and are under Gods judgment, not because He desires that, but because they reject grace in its absolute terms

Well under your doctrine, THEY HAVE NO CHOICE, God did not choose them, so in their total depravity what do you expect from them. If God chose them, they would not act that way. So it must be God's Will that these people are not saved. So where is the condemnation for them FROM YOU. IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT.
Talk to God about it....

 

[JLB]

The Gospel of election says;

God only loves the "elect" and sent His Son to die for them.

The Gospel of election sounds like "another" gospel.

JLB

It's the gospel that affords men to constantly talk about themselves as being "the elect", while rarely, if ever, acknowledging the ONE who actually is the elect.

Dare I say it's the FALSE gospel that affords men to constantly talk about themselves as being "the elect", while rarely, if ever, acknowledging the ONE who actually is the elect?

Please Dare all you want.

JLB


Where's the like button?

 

[mondar]

Wow again this is what so many fail to see, this is why so many in the "church" are in a condition of rebellion and are under Gods judgment, not because He desires that, but because they reject grace in its absolute terms

Well under your doctrine, THEY HAVE NO CHOICE, God did not choose them, so in their total depravity what do you expect from them. If God chose them, they would not act that way. So it must be God's Will that these people are not saved. So where is the condemnation for them FROM YOU. IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT.
Talk to God about it....

Deb, answers like yours above only prove the futility of giving any explanation. No matter what explanation is given, you will not hear it. George is affirming that people have choice. He is explaining why people use their ability to choose and use it to choose evil.

This is futile, we can correct you and try to get you to understand what we are saying, but you will go on and on, making the same mistakes in accusing us of saying something we are not.

 

[josefnospam]

You have heard the Gospil of God's amazing Grace on this forum. What you do with it is your bussiness. We did not ask god to elect us. We did not ask god to make a covenant of grace. We did not ask God to redeem us by the blood of his son. All these things were done before we were born. I am thankfull he included me, for these things I could never do. He did it all and if you don't agree continue in your ways and when God returns he will know who are his. Today is the day of salvation and when he returns it will be too late. No one knows who belongs to him but God himself.
I hope he choose you, and I always encourage people to Give HIM all the praise, honor and glory, for he alone is God. It is he who has saved us and not we ourselfs. Belonging to God by his sacrifice and shed blood is the only way. When God returns for his people and looks at you or me, if he does not see his son and his rightousness, then we will be found guilty. But Christ has already been found guilty and punished for all my sins. Men hate and will fight against this most beautifull, and blessed union between men and God. The elect will praise God now,in this life and forever for what he has done. Yes I will speak of election, and of God's mercy and grace and by his will, will continue in his will to tell others.


God has an election that he came to save. Christ is God's elect and so are we if we have the spirit of God. All that the father gave to him, he will lose nothing. This is the fathers will and Christ paid for his people through his blood.

 

[Deborah13]

Wow again this is what so many fail to see, this is why so many in the "church" are in a condition of rebellion and are under Gods judgment, not because He desires that, but because they reject grace in its absolute terms

Well under your doctrine, THEY HAVE NO CHOICE, God did not choose them, so in their total depravity what do you expect from them. If God chose them, they would not act that way. So it must be God's Will that these people are not saved. So where is the condemnation for them FROM YOU. IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT.
Talk to God about it....

Deb, answers like yours above only prove the futility of giving any explanation. No matter what explanation is given, you will not hear it. George is affirming that people have choice. He is explaining why people use their ability to choose and use it to choose evil.

This is futile, we can correct you and try to get you to understand what we are saying, but you will go on and on, making the same mistakes in accusing us of saying something we are not.

Does your doctrine not say that God randomly choses people, not with any foreknowledge about them, and some He creates to be evil and some to be His?

 

[Pizzaguy]

Wow again this is what so many fail to see, this is why so many in the "church" are in a condition of rebellion and are under Gods judgment, not because He desires that, but because they reject grace in its absolute terms

Well under your doctrine, THEY HAVE NO CHOICE, God did not choose them, so in their total depravity what do you expect from them. If God chose them, they would not act that way. So it must be God's Will that these people are not saved. So where is the condemnation for them FROM YOU. IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT.
Talk to God about it....

Deb, answers like yours above only prove the futility of giving any explanation. No matter what explanation is given, you will not hear it. George is affirming that people have choice. He is explaining why people use their ability to choose and use it to choose evil.

This is futile, we can correct you and try to get you to understand what we are saying, but you will go on and on, making the same mistakes in accusing us of saying something we are not.

What is FUTILE is your twisted theology.

Deb can't make sense of your posts, neither can I, and it's not our fault - it is to our CREDIT that the distortion of the Gospel that you are engaging in makes no sense to us!

 

[gr8grace]

Wow again this is what so many fail to see, this is why so many in the "church" are in a condition of rebellion and are under Gods judgment, not because He desires that, but because they reject grace in its absolute terms

Well under your doctrine, THEY HAVE NO CHOICE, God did not choose them, so in their total depravity what do you expect from them. If God chose them, they would not act that way. So it must be God's Will that these people are not saved. So where is the condemnation for them FROM YOU. IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT.
Talk to God about it....

Pretty much sums it up Deb. You will get 400 pages of intellectual philosophy to try to "better explain it" to you. And in the end of it all, your few sentences are the logical conclusion.

 

[reba]

Hello! Are we choosing to show mercy and grace?

Lets remember we serve the same Lord. I think the ToS says Respect where others are in their walk with the Lord....... Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
IF one believe He does the choosing, isn't the idea to treat every one as if they are His chosen.... something about a millstone....

Will having a member praise you for being "right' today matter when we are at the Throne of Grace?

If one believes we choose Him who is say that He did not do that work to bring a sheep home...

This topic is of great interest to me... Scriptures for both sides can be posted .. 3 years ago I was more to the He does the choosing side .. Reading a lot of what is posted here , seeing the lack of grace and mercy I just don't know anymore.... reba