Message to GOD"S elect

[JLB]

You have heard the Gospil of God's amazing Grace on this forum. What you do with it is your bussiness. We did not ask god to elect us. We did not ask god to make a covenant of grace. We did not ask God to redeem us by the blood of his son. All these things were done before we were born. I am thankfull he included me, for these things I could never do. He did it all and if you don't agree continue in your ways and when God returns he will know who are his. Today is the day of salvation and when he returns it will be too late. No one knows who belongs to him but God himself.
I hope he choose you, and I always encourage people to Give HIM all the praise, honor and glory, for he alone is God. It is he who has saved us and not we ourselfs. Belonging to God by his sacrifice and shed blood is the only way. When God returns for his people and looks at you or me, if he does not see his son and his rightousness, then we will be found guilty. But Christ has already been found guilty and punished for all my sins. Men hate and will fight against this most beautifull, and blessed union between men and God. The elect will praise God now,in this life and forever for what he has done. Yes I will speak of election, and of God's mercy and grace and by his will, will continue in his will to tell others.


God has an election that he came to save. Christ is God's elect and so are we if we have the spirit of God. All that the father gave to him, he will lose nothing. This is the fathers will and Christ paid for his people through his blood.

This post seems to be different the your OP.

Message to GOD"S elect

Praise, honor and Glory be to Jesus Christ our Saviour now and forever.
You know who you are and our Lord knows who are his. We belong to him!
Times are rapidly moving toward the end of all things as we know them, and all is in God's perfect control. Brethern, resit to the end and be rewarded by him when he returns to get us. He is our hope and our rightousness.
The most successfull doctrine of men and the devil, is their rejecting of Limited Attonment. This is widely taught and accepted, embraced and heard in most churches today. We know this is as it should be. Resist this terrible lie at all times.
There is no need to expound on this because this message is to his election and those who are not his will not understand unless he has mercy upon them and opens their eyes as only he can do. They HATE the true gospil of a Soverign God and they will fight against it.
But we embrace this glorious wonderfull fact that he died for his choosen people and we can rest in that forever. HE alone gives life.
Praise him for HIS mercy and HIS grace and HIS completed work and that he alone and by himself took ALL our sins away forever. His name is JESUS CHRIST the LORD and SAVIOUR and he RULES right now on his throne as The Soverign and GREAT GOD he is. Rejoice that he included you and know you are not alone. I precieve that on this site their are a few (not many) who are his​

But we embrace this glorious wonderfull fact that he died for his choosen people..

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

Your Gospel of election doesn't line up with God's word.

You said God doesn't love everybody, if He did no one who be lost.

God is Love.

For God so loved the world.


JLB

​

 

[Deborah13]

Wow again this is what so many fail to see, this is why so many in the "church" are in a condition of rebellion and are under Gods judgment, not because He desires that, but because they reject grace in its absolute terms

Well under your doctrine, THEY HAVE NO CHOICE, God did not choose them, so in their total depravity what do you expect from them. If God chose them, they would not act that way. So it must be God's Will that these people are not saved. So where is the condemnation for them FROM YOU. IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT.
Talk to God about it....

Deb, answers like yours above only prove the futility of giving any explanation. No matter what explanation is given, you will not hear it. George is affirming that people have choice. He is explaining why people use their ability to choose and use it to choose evil.

This is futile, we can correct you and try to get you to understand what we are saying, but you will go on and on, making the same mistakes in accusing us of saying something we are not.

Irresistible Grace:
When God calls his elect into salvation, they cannot resist. God offers to all people the gospel message. This is called the external call. But to the elect, God extends an internal call and it cannot be resisted. This call is by the Holy Spirit who works in the hearts and minds of the elect to bring them to repentance and regeneration whereby they willingly and freely come to God. Some of the verses used in support of this teaching are Romans 9:16 where it says that "it is not of him who wills nor of him who runs, but of God who has mercy"; Philippians 2:12-13 where God is said to be the one working salvation in the individual; John 6:28-29 where faith is declared to be the work of God; Acts 13:48 where God appoints people to believe; and John 1:12-13 where being born again is not by man’s will, but by God’s.
“All that the Father gives Me shall come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out," (John 6:37).
http://www.calvinistcorner.com/tulip.htm

I give you, John 1:13 The most difficult to understand, that I have seen your doctrine uses to prove Limited Atonement, I won't try to put it in my own words as sometimes I use the wrong terminology thus giving the appearance of saying something that I'm not.


13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Which were born, not of blood - Who were regenerated, ουκ εξ αἱματων, not of bloods - the union of father and mother, or of a distinguished or illustrious ancestry; for the Hebrew language makes use of the plural to point out the dignity or excellence of a thing: and probably by this the evangelist intended to show his countrymen, that having Abraham and Sarah for their parents would not entitle them to the blessings of the new covenant; as no man could lay claim to them, but in consequence of being born of God; therefore, neither the will of the flesh - any thing that the corrupt heart of man could purpose or determine in its own behalf; nor the will of man - any thing that another may be disposed to do in our behalf, can avail here; this new birth must come through the will of God - through; his own unlimited power and boundless mercy, prescribing salvation by Christ Jesus alone. It has been already observed that the Jews required circumcision, baptism, and sacrifice, in order to make a proselyte. They allow that the Israelites had in Egypt cast off circumcision, and were consequently out of the covenant; but at length they were circumcised, and they mingled the blood of circumcision with the blood of the paschal lamb, and from this union of bloods they were again made the children of God. See Lightfoot. This was the only way by which the Jews could be made the sons of God; but the evangelist shows them that, under the Gospel dispensation, no person could become a child of God, but by being spiritually regenerated.
http://clarke.biblecommenter.com/john/1.htm

This says to me, genetics cannot save you, works of any kind cannot save you, someone else cannot do anything to save you. Only the blood of the Lamb.

 

[josefnospam]

To JBL God is also the God of judgement and will repay men for their sins. Did God love pharoh? For the scriptures saith unto Pharaoh, even for this same purpose have I raised you up. Roman's 9:17. .... Did he love Judas who betrayed him? ......Did he love Easu? in verse 13.. And who are the ones who come in unaware ordained of old, ungodly men. Jude 4. Did god love them? God does not love everty equally and alike. Christ prayed NOT for the world but for those who the father gave to him. John 17:9 God makes peace and God makes evil.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light. and create darkness; I make peace and create evil. I the LORD do all these things.

God is God of all. Not just the good. He is the God of love but also hates some men. He created all and he is Lord over all. He is the potter and we are the clay formed as he wants and for his purpose. Praise him for all he does and thank him for Saving his people. He lives and reigns right now as the Soverign God over all his creation. What a GREAT God we worship. His name is Jesus Christ the Lord and Saviour.
So don't tell me God Loves everyone, for scriptures say otherwise. May he love you and call you as only he can do. I have been admonished not to cast doubts on man's faith. Mans faith and God's faith are not the same. One belongs to man and one belongs to God. I trust God!

We did not ask God to elect us.
We did not ask God to make a covenant of grace. We did not ask God to redeem us by the Blood of his son. All of these things were done before we were born. Even so then at this present time also is there a remnant according to the election of grace. romans 11:5 He included me and I hope he included you in such a wonderfull salvation that is his.

 

[Deborah13]

Christ prayed NOT for the world but for those who the father gave to him. John 17:9

In verses 6-19 Jesus is praying specifically for the Apostles, then in verse 20 we begins praying for all those who receive Him because of the Gospel message from the Apostles. Of coarse, someone else might read verse 12 differently.

Jesus praying for the Apostles
John 17 NASB
6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You; 8 for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me. 9 I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours; 10 and all things that are Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine; and I have been glorified in them. 11 I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are. 12 While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the [c]son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled. 13 But now I come to You; and these things I speak in the world so that they may have My joy made full in themselves. 14 I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them [d]from [e]the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth. 18 As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. 19 For their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they themselves also may be sanctified in truth." The Apostles

Jesus praying for the saints and that through their witness the world would believe. So imo, He prayed for the world to be saved, too.

20 “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may [f]believe that You sent Me.

 

[mondar]

Christ prayed NOT for the world but for those who the father gave to him. John 17:9

Jesus praying for the saints and that through their witness the world would believe. So imo, He prayed for the world to be saved, too.

If you can get "He prayed for the world to be saved, too" out of "...I pray not for the world...." (John 17:9) then language really has no meaning.

 

[reba]

If you can get "He prayed for the world to be saved, too" out of "...I pray not for the world...." (John 17:9) then language really has no meaning.

That is like saying if one can get only the elected out John 3: 16

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[JLB]

We did not ask God to elect us.

Please show the scriptures for this statement.

We did not ask God to make a covenant of grace

Please show from the scriptures where God made a covenant of Grace.

Did God love pharoh? For the scriptures saith unto Pharaoh, even for this same purpose have I raised you up. Roman's 9:17. .... Did he love Judas who betrayed him? ......Did he love Easu?

Please show the scriptures where it says God hates these.


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

Christ prayed NOT for the world but for those who the father gave to him. John 17:9

Jesus praying for the saints and that through their witness the world would believe. So imo, He prayed for the world to be saved, too.

If you can get "He prayed for the world to be saved, too" out of "...I pray not for the world...." (John 17:9) then language really has no meaning.

When Jesus was praying for the Apostles He made His prayer very specific that He was not praying the world, Just them the Apostles.
Then in verse 20 He prayers for all those who would come to Him through the Gospel message given by the Apostles, which includes you and me.
But and I don't intend to argue the point but He did say,
20 “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may [f]believe that You sent Me.

So if I pray and ask God for Mondar, be one with the Father and Jesus, so that the world may believe in Jesus, too. Wouldn't I be saying, that the world might be saved through Mondar witness?

 

[mondar]

If you can get "He prayed for the world to be saved, too" out of "...I pray not for the world...." (John 17:9) then language really has no meaning.

That is like saying if one can get only the elected out John 3: 16

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Reba, if you see no difference in the two propositions, then I doubt any language would express the difference.

 

[reba]

I think your correct, language is not my strong suit

 

[mondar]

Christ prayed NOT for the world but for those who the father gave to him. John 17:9

Jesus praying for the saints and that through their witness the world would believe. So imo, He prayed for the world to be saved, too.

If you can get "He prayed for the world to be saved, too" out of "...I pray not for the world...." (John 17:9) then language really has no meaning.

When Jesus was praying for the Apostles He made His prayer very specific that He was not praying the world, Just them the Apostles.
Then in verse 20 He prayers for all those who would come to Him through the Gospel message given by the Apostles, which includes you and me.
But and I don't intend to argue the point but He did say,
20 “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may [f]believe that You sent Me.

So if I pray and ask God for Mondar, be one with the Father and Jesus, so that the world may believe in Jesus, too. Wouldn't I be saying, that the world might be saved through Mondar witness?

Deborah, it would be good if you at least read a commentary or something before saying some of these things.

Most likely the word "world" in verse 9 and 21 speak not of each and every man without exception, but Christ is speaking of the reprobate and wicked world that is against God. He prays not for that world in verse 9. This same world is found in verse 14. The world hated Christs and those that are his. Then in verse 21, Christ wants the evil reprobate world to see that Jesus is truly of God, and that therefore, his judgment upon them is righteous. Even those whom he judges will bow the knee and acknowledge him as from God, including the Jews that are about to crucify him in a few short hours in John 17.

Of course the word "World" is used in a different sense in John 17:11 and 13. There it refers to the world of Palistine where Jesus walked and preached.

 

[mondar]

I think your correct, language is not my strong suit

That should be "I think you're correct, language is not my strong suit." And yes, and maybe at times I deserve those dirty looks.

 

[mondar]

We did not ask God to elect us.

Please show the scriptures for this statement.

Its an argument from silence. He does not need to show scripture.

One the other hand, Ephesians 1:4 says... Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:
Who was present at that time to ask to be elected?

We did not ask God to make a covenant of grace

Please show from the scriptures where God made a covenant of Grace.

Well, the term "covenant of Grace" can be used merely as vocabulary to speak of the unity of the scriptures. Not all covenant theologians believe there was a literal covenant. But that is another story. Some covenant theologians take the term "eternal covenant" found several times in the OT as proof texts. I would not be in agreement with that... the terminology usually refers to the new covenant.

Did God love pharoh? For the scriptures saith unto Pharaoh, even for this same purpose have I raised you up. Roman's 9:17. .... Did he love Judas who betrayed him? ......Did he love Easu?

Please show the scriptures where it says God hates these.


JLB

Rom 9:13 Even as it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.

One must of course be careful with that text. There are different explanations. Some completely explain it away ... so much that they ignore both context and the actual words used. The context is about election (see verse 11). People do good and bad things, and election has nothing to do with the works or deeds. It has to do with God, and God did not elect Esau because he hated him in the context of election and salvation. He might have loved him with a common grace, but hated him with regard to election. Anyways, you asked for a verse and there it is.

 

[mondar]

Good night all.

 

[josefnospam]

funny how the word world is use in scripture. in one place people say the world means everyone but in another they say it means only a group alive at the time Jesus says it. In John 17:6 Jesus cleary states he is praying for the men which God gave him He then states plainy I pray for them, I pray not for the WORLD but them which thou giveth me.

In John 3:15 whosoever believeth in him should not perish. Now people want to say the word world means the whole world. Who is the whosoever that believeth in him? I will tell you. It is the ones he chose to do so before he made the world.

 

[Deborah13]

Deborah, it would be good if you at least read a commentary or something before saying some of these things.

Actually, I quote from commentaries and use them quite a bit. In fact, I've quoted what Spurgeon said about regeneration before salvation, he called it nonsense.

Most likely the word "world" in verse 9 and 21 speak not of each and every man without exception, but Christ is speaking of the reprobate and wicked world that is against God. He prays not for that world in verse 9. This same world is found in verse 14. The world hated Christs and those that are his. Then in verse 21, Christ wants the evil reprobate world to see that Jesus is truly of God, and that therefore, his judgment upon them is righteous. Even those whom he judges will bow the knee and acknowledge him as from God, including the Jews that are about to crucify him in a few short hours in John 17.

Most likely, sounds like speculation to me. I also use a Gk to English interlinar and Strong's. That's not to say I always get things right even with all this help.
But some things are really quite simply with these helps. Notice the word "believe" in reference to the world.

20 “I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; 21 that they may all be one; even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may [f]believe that You sent Me.

Strong's 4100
pisteuō
From G4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), that is, credit; by implication to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well being to Christ): - believe (-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with.

What does that say to you? Isn't that wonderful. Jesus, wants the world to put their faith in, Him. That make me very happy, that we service such a loving God. That when He says, "we are to be conformed to His very image" that means, we love God because He first loved us and that when He says we are to love our neighbors as ourselves. He means love as I love.

 

[JLB]

Its an argument from silence. He does not need to show scripture.

Claiming to be elect does not excuse him from giving scripture to validate his gospel of election.

One the other hand, Ephesians 1:4 says... Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love: Who was present at that time to ask to be elected?

Yes, God saw the end from the beginning and who would choose...

Well, the term "covenant of Grace" can be used merely as vocabulary to speak of the unity of the scriptures. Not all covenant theologians believe there was a literal covenant. But that is another story. Some covenant theologians take the term "eternal covenant" found several times in the OT as proof texts. I would not be in agreement with that... the terminology usually refers to the new covenant.

Basically what you are saying is: The gospel of election is a man made Gospel.

If you have no scripture to back up "your" terms and phrases, then save your breath.

We just don't need anymore man made, man inspired doctrines.

Rom 9:13 Even as it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.

That's your scripture to validate that God doesn't love everyone? LOL!!!!!

That is a Hebrew Idiom that means "loves less".

26 "If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. Luke 14:26

Do you think would tell you to literally hate your father and mother...


JLB

 

[reba]

[MENTION=4317]mondar[/MENTION] :toofunny

 

[Deborah13]

funny how the word world is use in scripture. in one place people say the world means everyone but in another they say it means only a group alive at the time Jesus says it.

In John 1, I think it is the very same world throughout the whole of the scripture we have been discussing.
You remember what Jesus said when He gave His life for us. As those who hated Him watched Him suffer and die, He prayer, "Father, forgiven, they know not what they do." Same world in verse 21.
Will all people be saved? No But I think the scripture is clear, that He wants them to. Please read post #197. That "believe" in v 21, is the GK word for "faith".

 

[Deborah13]

Who was present at that time to ask to be elected?

??? Nobody asks to be elected. One may come under the conviction of the Holy Spirit and the Father draws. This may be sometime before they hear the Gospel message. During that time they may realize that there is a God who created the world, even someone they no they need. But they can't find Him on their own.

Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:

Of coarse, I believe this is true.

What is your understanding of foreknowledge? What is that?

One must of course be careful with that text. There are different explanations. Some completely explain it away ... so much that they ignore both context and the actual words used. The context is about election (see verse 11). People do good and bad things, and election has nothing to do with the works or deeds. It has to do with God, and God did not elect Esau because he hated him in the context of election and salvation. He might have loved him with a common grace, but hated him with regard to election. Anyways, you asked for a verse and there it is.

Why did God say He hated Esau? What is your understanding?