Message to GOD"S elect

[josefnospam]

Mondar Eph. 1:4 says he hath choosen us in him BEFORE the foundations of the world. We didn't ask for this. It was done before the world was made.
Pslm 89:3 says" I have made a covnenant with my choosen.................
God made a covenant with Abraham to bless his seed. ie: Isreal
We are the spiritial seed of Isreal
A new covenant, he hath made the first old.

hebrews 13:20 an everlastin covenant of blood
Covenant theology is a study in of itself and there are others more qualified to speak on this matter than I .
However it is the Covenant of his Grace that is the backbone of our Salvation and his promise to his people.

If God loved pharoh why did he destroy him and his army.
God certainly did not love Judas who betrayed him. Judas hung himself.
And the scriptures say and this is a direct quote "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated" Romans 9:13 And don't try to say this says God loved Esau less than Jacob. The scriptures say Esau have I hated. That's what it plainly says, not me...........

Now Jude 4..............For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ORDAINED to this condemnation, UNGODLY MEN, turning the grace of God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord jesus Christ.

Ungodly men. Ordained of old ,denying the Lord................God certainly does not love them. Read Jude as most of the book is about these chosen by God to do his purpose......Where is there choice? Did God die for them? If so why are they not saved? They were ORDAINED to this condemnation.

Jude continiues talking of these men. verse 13...........Raging waves of the sea: fomoing out to their own shame: wandering stars to whom is reserved the balckness of darkness for ever. Again where is their choice if God loves everyone? If God died for all the sins of all the men in the world did he forget these or fail to cover their sins? The main point here is that God does not love everyone and he uses some men for his purpose. Again God is the potter and we are the clay.

Hath not the potter
power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor and another onto dishonor? What if God, willing to shew HIS WRATH, and to make his power know, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted for destruction. And that he might make know the riches of his Glory on the vessels of Mercy, which he had afore prepared unto Glory.......Romans 9:21 thru 23

And verse 24 says even us whom he hath called.

Exodus 14: 4 says I will Harden Pharaohs heart. Where is phararohs choice in this. All these things mean simply God does not love every one.
And he does with his creation what he wills.

The Lord killeth, and the Lord maketh alive...............................................1 Samuel 2:6

Thank you for making me search the scriptures and for your post. We worship such a GREAT and HOLY GOD...................

 

[Deborah13]

If God loved pharoh why did he destroy him and his army.
God certainly did not love Judas who betrayed him. Judas hung himself.
And the scriptures say and this is a direct quote "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated" Romans 9:13 And don't try to say this says God loved Esau less than Jacob. The scriptures say Esau have I hated. That's what it plainly says, not me...........

Did God love the Israelite people? Think about that.

 

[George Muller]

2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Hypocrisy = Not practicing what one Preaches

"self-righteousness"

I agree, Self-righteousness, is not the Gospel of Grace!

The TRUE Gospel of Grace, teaches many things, one of which is Graciousness.

In fact, there is a wonderful example of a Grace preacher that practices what he preaches, right here in this Forum. One might be interested and take a look in the Bible Study forum, at a recent thread there. One will see grace in action, not just words.
As James says, actions speak louder then words.

Well God gives grace to the humble and resist the proud, I think I will be as He is. "hypocrisy" is to judge others by a standard that one does not keep themselves, all who teach the law will pick parts of the law they "think" they can keep, but ignore the true standard, which is the hypocrisy that the bible speaks too. Many could preach against those who steal the watermelon from the patch, but they in their heart covet to take their brothers field. No the true keeping of the law is in the heart and Spirit not in the letter. All legalist are hypocrites and it is righteousness to resist them in their pride.

Tit 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

 

[George Muller]

The Gospel of election says; God only loves the "elect" and sent His Son to die for them.

Well JLB the fact that some group calls themselves "elect" should have no effect on those who have the witness of the Holy Spirit, for the Holy Spirit is the bond and seal of "election". Now a lot of religious groups claim they are "elect" but is should not cause us who have the Spirit to deny the truth and doctrines of our own "election". That some take parts of the truth in error, should not hinder us from walking in the truth. Satan works to confuse the greatest truths, and to pit one against the other in such a way as one will reject the truth. "election" is a great and mighty biblical truth, the fact that some may be in error, should not hinder a Spirit sealed believer from understanding the truth of "election". The whole false free-will doctrine is based upon responding to the error of another group, this should not be.

 

[George Muller]

Wow again this is what so many fail to see, this is why so many in the "church" are in a condition of rebellion and are under Gods judgment, not because He desires that, but because they reject grace in its absolute terms

Well under your doctrine, THEY HAVE NO CHOICE, God did not choose them, so in their total depravity what do you expect from them. If God chose them, they would not act that way. So it must be God's Will that these people are not saved. So where is the condemnation for them FROM YOU. IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT.
Talk to God about it....

Well of course you now are intentionally trying to twist what I have said, "free-will" must be crucified and surrendered will is the obedience that God demands. Confidence in the flesh "free-will" is what I have addressed. That no man can please God in their own "free-will" is evident. The purpose of the Law of Moses, was to bring a man to the end of his "free-will" , those who refuse to "hear" the law, are in a condition of pride "self-will", and are in need to brought to the Cross.

Isa 30:9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:

Ga 4:21 ¶ Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Free-will is a religion of bondage, based upon the pride of mans flesh.

 

[George Muller]

Wow again this is what so many fail to see, this is why so many in the "church" are in a condition of rebellion and are under Gods judgment, not because He desires that, but because they reject grace in its absolute terms

Well under your doctrine, THEY HAVE NO CHOICE, God did not choose them, so in their total depravity what do you expect from them. If God chose them, they would not act that way. So it must be God's Will that these people are not saved. So where is the condemnation for them FROM YOU. IT'S NOT THEIR FAULT.
Talk to God about it....

Deb, answers like yours above only prove the futility of giving any explanation. No matter what explanation is given, you will not hear it. George is affirming that people have choice. He is explaining why people use their ability to choose and use it to choose evil.

This is futile, we can correct you and try to get you to understand what we are saying, but you will go on and on, making the same mistakes in accusing us of saying something we are not.

Thank you mondar, it reminds me of the religious class in the testimony of Stephen, they "covered their ears" for they could not bear to hear the truth. Now if on comes teaching free-will and glories in the flesh of man, their carnal ears will "itch" to hear how they can justify the flesh and self-will. As it is written "there is nothing new under the sun"

 

[Eventide]

Justification of LIFE...

Quick and simple question for any member of the body of Christ who has the Spirit of Christ within them...

Whose LIFE is justified in your earthen vessel ?

Is it your life, the life of Christ, or both ?

If you believe that YOUR LIFE is justified, does that mean that you see election as Christ AND you ?

If you do not believe that YOUR LIFE is justified, and you believe that the LIFE of Christ alone is justified in you.. then does that mean that you see election as Christ in me, rather than Christ and me ?

 

[Eventide]

He must increase... and I must decrease...

Now I would assume (I know, that can be bad).. that if a person has been taught that God chose them unconditionally (as one of the elect), that they would also be taught that their life is justified..

Again, just an assumption here.

IOW, if I am the elect, and my life is NOT justified, then why am I led to believe that I'm the elect in the first place ?

Can the so called 'elect' here explain how YOUR LIFE is justified, in light of the glorious gospel of God's Son, and in addition to the infinitely glorious LIFE of our Lord Jesus Christ ?

 

[George Muller]

Re: He must increase... and I must decrease...

Now I would assume (I know, that can be bad).. that if a person has been taught that God chose them unconditionally (as one of the elect), that they would also be taught that their life is justified..

Again, just an assumption here.

IOW, if I am the elect, and my life is NOT justified, then why am I led to believe that I'm the elect in the first place ?

Can the so called 'elect' here explain how YOUR LIFE is justified, in light of the glorious gospel of God's Son, and in addition to the infinitely glorious LIFE of our Lord Jesus Christ ?

So what if some small group has been taught a error? Many groups are in error. We as Spirit sealed believers do not defeat other error by other doctrines of error. Free-will and the doctrines that have been formed around this unbiblical term are error. Surrendered will is obedience not "self-will"

 

[Eventide]

Re: He must increase... and I must decrease...

Now I would assume (I know, that can be bad).. that if a person has been taught that God chose them unconditionally (as one of the elect), that they would also be taught that their life is justified..

Again, just an assumption here.

IOW, if I am the elect, and my life is NOT justified, then why am I led to believe that I'm the elect in the first place ?

Can the so called 'elect' here explain how YOUR LIFE is justified, in light of the glorious gospel of God's Son, and in addition to the infinitely glorious LIFE of our Lord Jesus Christ ?

So what if some small group has been taught a error? Many groups are in error. We as Spirit sealed believers do not defeat other error by other doctrines of error. Free-will and the doctrines that have been formed around this unbiblical term are error. Surrendered will is obedience not "self-will"

Just asking a simple question... Would you care to answer it or would you like to avoid it..?

 

[Eventide]

It's as simple as it gets...

Whose life is justified in you ?

A) my life

B) Christ

C) both of the above

D) none of the above

 

[George Muller]

Re: He must increase... and I must decrease...

Now I would assume (I know, that can be bad).. that if a person has been taught that God chose them unconditionally (as one of the elect), that they would also be taught that their life is justified..

Again, just an assumption here.

IOW, if I am the elect, and my life is NOT justified, then why am I led to believe that I'm the elect in the first place ?

Can the so called 'elect' here explain how YOUR LIFE is justified, in light of the glorious gospel of God's Son, and in addition to the infinitely glorious LIFE of our Lord Jesus Christ ?

So what if some small group has been taught a error? Many groups are in error. We as Spirit sealed believers do not defeat other error by other doctrines of error. Free-will and the doctrines that have been formed around this unbiblical term are error. Surrendered will is obedience not "self-will"

Just asking a simple question... Would you care to answer it or would you like to avoid it..?

Well if you read my post in its honest intention, you will see that I did answer your question, but added the element of Gods wisdom to your question. A question is not always godly, but a Godly response is always Godly.

1Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

 

[Eventide]

Re: He must increase... and I must decrease...

Now I would assume (I know, that can be bad).. that if a person has been taught that God chose them unconditionally (as one of the elect), that they would also be taught that their life is justified..

Again, just an assumption here.

IOW, if I am the elect, and my life is NOT justified, then why am I led to believe that I'm the elect in the first place ?

Can the so called 'elect' here explain how YOUR LIFE is justified, in light of the glorious gospel of God's Son, and in addition to the infinitely glorious LIFE of our Lord Jesus Christ ?

So what if some small group has been taught a error? Many groups are in error. We as Spirit sealed believers do not defeat other error by other doctrines of error. Free-will and the doctrines that have been formed around this unbiblical term are error. Surrendered will is obedience not "self-will"

Just asking a simple question... Would you care to answer it or would you like to avoid it..?

Well if you read my post in its honest intention, you will see that I did answer your question, but added the element of Gods wisdom to your question. A question is not always godly, but a Godly response is always Godly.

1Ti 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;
4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,

Yes George, it's painfully obvious that you've already answered.

Anyone else already answered ?

I'm sure all of the 'elect' have already answered.

 

[JLB]

The Gospel of election says; God only loves the "elect" and sent His Son to die for them.

Well JLB the fact that some group calls themselves "elect" should have no effect on those who have the witness of the Holy Spirit, for the Holy Spirit is the bond and seal of "election". Now a lot of religious groups claim they are "elect" but is should not cause us who have the Spirit to deny the truth and doctrines of our own "election". That some take parts of the truth in error, should not hinder us from walking in the truth. Satan works to confuse the greatest truths, and to pit one against the other in such a way as one will reject the truth. "election" is a great and mighty biblical truth, the fact that some may be in error, should not hinder a Spirit sealed believer from understanding the truth of "election". The whole false free-will doctrine is based upon responding to the error of another group, this should not be.

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

God loves everyone.

This scriptures teaches us that whoever believes.

The Gospel of election teaches that only the elect can believe.

George, if you have a scripture shows God that only the elect can be saved, please share that with us.

Why would God want us to go through this life and have the ability to choose Him and His Kingdom and obey His Voice or not, if He has already chosen who will and who will not be saved?


JLB

 

[JLB]

If God loved pharoh why did he destroy him and his army.

Because of His Covenant promise.

3 I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed." Genesis 12:3


The real question is why would the Egyptians want to kill the covenant children when they were a blessing to that nation, and through them, that is to say Joseph, God saved that nation from annilation during the famine.

Why did they next Pharaoh treat them badly when they had been treated well by the previous Pharaoh.

God loved the Egyptians and sent His son [Joseph; a type of Christ] to bless them but they rejected His love and His people.

Sound familiar?


JLB

 

[Deborah13]

The whole false free-will doctrine is based upon responding to the error of another group, this should not be.

Interesting. Will you answer this question please. Can one resist the conviction of the Holy Spirit?

 

[Deborah13]

It's as simple as it gets...

Whose life is justified in you ?

A) my life

B) Christ

C) both of the above

D) none of the above

lol. That is a loaded question. Without a statement of what one means. If one is in Christ, they are justified (righteous) because He is righteous, and for that reason only.

 

[Deborah13]

If God loved pharoh why did he destroy him and his army.

Seems to me God didn't do anything differently to Pharaoh than He did to the Hebrew children when they were stiff necked and rebellious towards God.

God tried over and over to get Pharaoh to let the Hebrew children go. He would not. Read it and you will see. Then maybe do a word search of something like
"they would not". You find that God did the same thing to the people He loved in order to bring them in repentance. If Pharaoh had repented and let the children go, God would not have had to destroy him.

So I ask again, what do you understand about foreknowledge?

 

[gr8grace]

If God loved pharoh why did he destroy him and his army.

Seems to me God didn't do anything differently to Pharaoh than He did to the Hebrew children when they were stiff necked and rebellious towards God.

God tried over and over to get Pharaoh to let the Hebrew children go. He would not. Read it and you will see. Then maybe do a word search of something like
"they would not". You find that God did the same thing to the people He loved in order to bring them in repentance. If Pharaoh had repented and let the children go, God would not have had to destroy him.

So I ask again, what do you understand about foreknowledge?

Exodus 10:3~~Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and said to him, "Thus says the LORD, the God of the Hebrews, 'How long will you refuse to humble yourself before Me? Let My people go, that they may serve Me.

 

[JLB]

If God loved pharoh why did he destroy him and his army.

Seems to me God didn't do anything differently to Pharaoh than He did to the Hebrew children when they were stiff necked and rebellious towards God.

God tried over and over to get Pharaoh to let the Hebrew children go. He would not. Read it and you will see. Then maybe do a word search of something like
"they would not". You find that God did the same thing to the people He loved in order to bring them in repentance. If Pharaoh had repented and let the children go, God would not have had to destroy him.

So I ask again, what do you understand about foreknowledge?

Exodus 10:3~~Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and said to him, "Thus says the LORD, the God of the Hebrews, 'How long will you refuse to humble yourself before Me? Let My people go, that they may serve Me.

Great word.

Someone might say -

God hardened Pharaoh so that He might show forth His power through his stubbornness.

Well said -

For God will give a person over to their evil desires once they have continually resisted His Spirt over and over.


JLB