Miracle Or Hoax?

[Deborah13]

philosophically, be a fake.

Do you think Alan and Debbie paid the doctor at the Fort Worth hospital to lie for them. This has aired on national television (their testimony of Jesus).

Jesus does miracle healings today. Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, and forever.

 

[Deborah13]

The man provides for himself

If you get sick, "who ya gonna call" Ghost Busters. Good luck with that! You'll start callin' and cryin' to Jesus, please heal me, Lord.

Oh but if you are in Colorado Springs and feelin' puny, just stop on over at the school on Thursday afternoons at 1pm MTime. There's a 1/2 of praise and worship then the students and instructors will pray for you.

FOR FREE

And don't worry Andrew probably won't be there, he has other things he's doing. Like setting up missionary schools around the world.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

The man provides for himself

If you get sick, "who ya gonna call" Ghost Busters. Good luck with that! You'll start callin' and cryin' to Jesus, please heal me, Lord.

Oh, and by the way . . . just in case you're interested in the healings of Andrew Wommack . . . he has a website! Those who truly heal in the name of Jesus feel the need to have a website. You know . . . just to get the word out there.

 

[Deborah13]

he has a website!

HE HAS A BIBLE COLLEGE AND A CHURCH AND A TEACHING TV MINISTRY AND HE HAS HELPED THE LORD TO SET UP MISSINARY SCHOOLS ALL OVER THE WORLD

HE DOES NOT HAVE A HEALING MINISTRY. IN FACT, HE DOES NOT BELIEVE THAT IT IS A BIBLICAL MINISTRY, NO SUCH ANIMAL.

He believes that the 5 fold ministries are the only true ministries.

this is kinda fun, seeing that you have the truth now an you are responsible for knowing....just keep it up

here's my thread again, just in case you're really interested how Jesus healed this man with proof.

http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=51616&highlight=

 

[VirginShallConceive]

he has a website!

HE HAS A BIBLE COLLEGE AND A CHURCH AND A TEACHING TV MINISTRY . . .

I'll stop you right there.

He has enough by preying upon the people who really put their trust in him that he was really channeling the healing powers of Jesus.

Enough.

 

[WIP]

So can someone explain how this thread is a discussion of theology or incorporating apologetics? I'm wondering if we should move it or close it.

 

[Deborah13]

we should move it or close it.

I can certainly see moving it to a more appropriate forum. As well as the thread which I started on the same subject.

I would ask you not to close it however. If Jesus as the healer is not of vital importance to the Christian community...

I am not speaking of signs and wonders, but of Jesus the healer, even to miraculous healings. By the prayers of one Christian with another, husbands and wives, parents and children, Christians to Christians.

 

[Claudya]

This is a theological topic. It's about how to discern miracles from lies, how to discern false prophets and about healing and spiritual gifts.
The thread may have gotten a bit derailed like many threads do, but it is, in essence, a theological question that often comes up when looking at charismatic phenomena.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

I would ask you not to close it however.

Thank you for your kind words.

In my OP, I am asking a "Yes or No" type of question. This type of question leads to people arguing for either side or perhaps a neutral side. The topic and the two or more sides arguing their theological beliefs make it definitely Apologetics & Theology material.

When I read your thread, your OP seemed a lot like what I find in our Testimonies section. The responses that came after your OP continued to move your thread in the direction that I see threads in Testimonies moving. I thought about posting in there and making it more apologetic and theological, but then I said, "Nah. I'm gonna keep the apologetics in here."

I know you saw me lurking in there yesterday.

Deborah, when you do take part in Apologetics & Theology threads, you are a good-hearted participant. You really are.

That Ghostbusters bit you threw in there was good.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

This is a theological topic. It's about how to discern miracles from lies, how to discern false prophets and about healing and spiritual gifts.
The thread may have gotten a bit derailed like many threads do, but it is, in essence, a theological question that often comes up when looking at charismatic phenomena.

Thank you, Claudya.

 

[Deborah13]

In my OP, I am asking a "Yes or No" type of question. This type of question leads to people arguing for either side or perhaps a neutral side. The topic and the two or more sides arguing their theological beliefs make it definitely Apologetics & Theology material.

To the man, you, who admitted he likes to argue, I know you wanted a yes or no to a question that none of us in all honesty could answer, with such a simple answer, which you knew.
My attempt at combat mode was just to post miracle healings that cannot be explained by anything other than Jesus does do miracles today. Seeing God's Word can be interpreted differently and is, then just like you I have to resort to video's and testimonies to prove my point.

That Ghostbusters bit you threw in there was good

lol, I thought you would enjoy that no matter how you interpreted my motive. I laughed myself when I posted it.

Thanks for your kind words.

Keep the threads and post coming that make us all think and pray.

 

[WIP]

If we are going to get the thread back on a theological discussion, I will leave it here. Let's stay on topic please.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

Here's another.

This is Matt Sorger. He has quite a bit of merchandise for sale on his website. Get it while it's hot!

http://www.mattsorger.com/


[video=youtube;T99fUvuuYOg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T99fUvuuYOg[/video]

Oops! Embedding for this video is disabled. Here is the link.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T99fUvuuYOg

"Couda ba shundaloble sheekiadaba shundaloble sheekiadaba shundaloble shakay laday shunday?" -Matt Sorger @ about 1:53


All I could make out was the last part of the question about a "shaky lady on Sunday" or "the shaky lady who will be shunned today". :toofunny


Miracle worker or hoaxer?


I say hoaxer.


What do you think?


"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." -Matthew 7:15

 

[Obadiah]

Well if this is a theology forum then "theology" is the study of God, right? And Jesus is God, right? So my example that I study is Jesus. In scripture when I study the healings of Jesus, if someone is laying down it's because they are crippled or dead, and when Jesus performs His miracles, they get up and run to tell others (in an intelligible language) what God had just done. Not the other way around.

I see no examples in scripture of this crazy and wild shaking and falling on the ground and uttering of gibberish after a healing from God like what this video shows. People are even disrespectfully laughing at the show they put on! Did Moses or anyone else in scripture laugh at God when He revealed his great power to them? No, they did not. They stood in holy fear and awe and worshiped Him or they bowed down in holy fear and awe and worshiped Him. They didn't laugh at Him.

As I said before in this thread, I was an active participant in a real healing that was complete and instantaneous of an injury that was well verified, and the healing itself was well verified by doctors who stated there was no logical medical or human explanation for what happened. Also, as in Jesus time, the person that was healed has gone on to a lifetime of glorifying God and giving testimony as a result. This was a real healing from God, yet there was no "speaking in tongues" needed (in this video in particular clearly violating scripture calling for interpretation), no violent and crazy shaking and falling to the floor and acting like Linda Blair in The Exorcist, and no big show to glorify anyone present but God Himself. There was deep reverence for the power of God Almighty in that room that NO ONE ever forgot. There was NO laughing at it!

So regarding what I see in this video, theologically speaking I do not believe what we are witnessing in this video comes from God. If there is more to the story that would say differently but isn't shown here, that's fine, but I don't see it in the video.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

As I said before in this thread, I was an active participant in a real healing that was complete and instantaneous of an injury that was well verified, and the healing itself was well verified by doctors who stated there was no logical medical or human explanation for what happened.

Exactly, how "well-verified" was it?

For example, there is some sort of committee that verifies extreme-old-age claims.

There have been "Oldest Person In The World" claims that have been previously accepted by the Guinness Book of World Records(back in the days of less skepticism) that have been subsequently renounced by none other than the Guiness Book of World Records.

Where, may I ask, is the committee with a popular household name that verifies such wonderful real occurrences as "healings that could only be supernatural miracles"?

In my observation, a well-verified healing would be common knowledge because of how miraculously awesome that amazing reality would be.

News of a real, documented healing would spread like wildfire.

[edited by staff]

 

[VirginShallConceive]

Here's another:

[video=youtube;n1wVQFmkIlo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1wVQFmkIlo[/video]

Miracle or hoax?



I say, "Hoax!"

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I think all these people provide sensationalism.
Sad, but true.

I've known people to go to see Benny Hinn and be prayed over and healed long before Benny Hinn appeared on stage.
If a person goes believing that God will heal them, then it shouldn't surprise us that people do get healed.

I'm just glad that if a child gets healed at a Todd Bentley event that he doesn't kick her/him in the mouth and yell "bam" and knock out a tooth as he has done before.

The problem with Todd Bentley is that in his book he says he has been "demon possessed on at least two occasions.
I'd question anything coming from his ministry.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

I think all these people provide sensationalism.
Sad, but true.

I've known people to go to see Benny Hinn and be prayed over and healed long before Benny Hinn appeared on stage.
If a person goes believing that God will heal them, then it shouldn't surprise us that people do get healed.

I'm just glad that if a child gets healed at a Todd Bentley event that he doesn't kick her/him in the mouth and yell "bam" and knock out a tooth as he has done before.

The problem with Todd Bentley is that in his book he says he has been "demon possessed on at least two occasions.
I'd question anything coming from his ministry.

I think that the problem with these "miracles" is this. If anybody was performing true live miracles, the entire world, and I mean the entire world would be flocking toward these miracles. Deep down, the majority of people know that it is all a put-on.

The worst part about it all, is when people on these forums try to defend the possibility that these miracles could actually be taking place, but they don't make any urgent moves to travel toward these miracles. This is simply cognitive dissonance at its best.

 

[Guest]

I think that the problem with these "miracles" is this. If anybody was performing true live miracles, the entire world, and I mean the entire world would be flocking toward these miracles. Deep down, the majority of people know that it is all a put-on.

The worst part about it all, is when people on these forums try to defend the possibility that these miracles could actually be taking place, but they don't make any urgent moves to travel toward these miracles. This is simply cognitive dissonance at its best.

Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

 

[VirginShallConceive]

I think that the problem with these "miracles" is this. If anybody was performing true live miracles, the entire world, and I mean the entire world would be flocking toward these miracles. Deep down, the majority of people know that it is all a put-on.

The worst part about it all, is when people on these forums try to defend the possibility that these miracles could actually be taking place, but they don't make any urgent moves to travel toward these miracles. This is simply cognitive dissonance at its best.

Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Soooo . . . what are you trying to say in response to my post? Please forgive me, but I am unable to connect your reply to my post that you replied to.