More on Redemption ! Secures unto us our regeneration

[brightfame52]

More on Redemption ! Secures unto us our regeneration

Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

When Jesus told Nicodemus that ye must be born again, of course He was not commanding him to be born again, for that would be like telling him he must enter back into his mothers womb, but Jesus was stating to him a condition for being able to enter into the Kingdom of God, and I know many would agree with this conclusion.

However there is another reason why one must be born again, if indeed Jesus died for their sins, and that is so they may have a new life in order to now serve God pleasingly in Spirit and in Truth, for they now must serve Him in the newness of life. Rom 6:4

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

The word for newness is the greek word kainotēs:

newness

a) in the new state of life in which the Holy Spirit places us so as to produce a new state which is eternal life.

Thats right, God's Justice provides for and demands a Newness of Life to serve Him. All for whom Christ died and redeemed must be made alive, because Christ has died the death that they have deserved and has merited for them the Full Blessing of Eternal Life. Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Lets look at Rom 5:18

18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. As a end result of the redemption we have in Christ, notice the b section of the verse :

"even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men[without distinction] unto justification of life."

Now Legal, forensic Justification as important as it is, it was not God's only objective for Christ's redeeming death. His death was also purposed to give Life, and this Life comes through the Spirit. Its by His Gift of the Holy Spirit, unto all for whom Christ died and redeemed, we receive Justification unto Life ! based solely upon one act of righteousness or as it states in vs 19, His one act of obedience: Justification unto life by the Spirit is also what Paul refers to in 1 Cor 6:11

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Justification unto or into life by the Spirit. This must be because the old life has been crucified with the Lord Jesus Christ, all of its sins , past, present and future have been blotted out once and for all, so now we must be born again to serve in the Newness of Life, Gods Justice demands it for Christ sake.

 

[JLB]

More on Redemption ! Secures unto us our regeneration

Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

When Jesus told Nicodemus that ye must be born again, of course He was not commanding him to be born again, for that would be like telling him he must enter back into his mothers womb, but Jesus was stating to him a condition for being able to enter into the Kingdom of God, and I know many would agree with this conclusion.

However there is another reason why one must be born again, if indeed Jesus died for their sins, and that is so they may have a new life in order to now serve God pleasingly in Spirit and in Truth, for they now must serve Him in the newness of life. Rom 6:4

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

The word for newness is the greek word kainotēs:

newness

a) in the new state of life in which the Holy Spirit places us so as to produce a new state which is eternal life.

Thats right, God's Justice provides for and demands a Newness of Life to serve Him. All for whom Christ died and redeemed must be made alive, because Christ has died the death that they have deserved and has merited for them the Full Blessing of Eternal Life. Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Lets look at Rom 5:18

18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. As a end result of the redemption we have in Christ, notice the b section of the verse :

"even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men[without distinction] unto justification of life."

Now Legal, forensic Justification as important as it is, it was not God's only objective for Christ's redeeming death. His death was also purposed to give Life, and this Life comes through the Spirit. Its by His Gift of the Holy Spirit, unto all for whom Christ died and redeemed, we receive Justification unto Life ! based solely upon one act of righteousness or as it states in vs 19, His one act of obedience: Justification unto life by the Spirit is also what Paul refers to in 1 Cor 6:11

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Justification unto or into life by the Spirit. This must be because the old life has been crucified with the Lord Jesus Christ, all of its sins , past, present and future have been blotted out once and for all, so now we must be born again to serve in the Newness of Life, Gods Justice demands it for Christ sake.

All redemption, justification and life are the result of believing and obeying the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 2 Timothy 1:10






JLB

 

[brightfame52]

How do those That Christ died for receive the Atonement ?

Rom 5:11

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.


The word atonement here is the greek word :

katallagē:


) exchange

a) of the business of money changers, exchanging equivalent values

2) adjustment of a difference, reconciliation, restoration to favour

a) in the NT of the restoration of the favour of God to sinners that repent and put their trust in the expiatory death of Christ

The word is used here also:

Rom 11:15

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

2 Cor 5:18-19

18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So what is Paul saying in the text of Rom 5:11 ?

He is saying that we, all those Christ died for, receive the benefit of the atonement by or through Jesus Christ, that is , He ensures that its benefits are received by those He died for. He ensures that by the Holy Spirit, whom He sends, applies those benefits to those He died for, thats another role of His as Mediator. The Holy Spirit because of Christ reveals to each child of mercy that they had a covenant interest in Christ blood: Jn 16:14-15

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Initially that applied to His disciple's, but it also applies to His Church, His body. And through this effectual application they or we become Justified in our own consciousness by Faith, hence by this we receive the atonement, the comfort of it, and the peace of it.

 

[brightfame52]

All redemption, justification and life are the result of believing and obeying the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 2 Timothy 1:10






JLB

I disagree, I believe all believing, and obeying the Gospel is the result of Christs accomplishment.

 

[Serving Zion]

I disagree, I believe all believing, and obeying the Gospel is the result of Christs accomplishment.

John 3:20-21 shows that some people will come toward the light to have their deeds exposed, while others will not go near the light for fear that their deeds be exposed. It seems to show that the people have a sense of awareness of their responsibility for the things done in the body. How can you explain that the person who is responsible for their deeds in this way is consistent with what you have suggested here?

 

[brightfame52]

John 3:20-21 shows that some people will come toward the light to have their deeds exposed, while others will not go near the light for fear that their deeds be exposed. It seems to show that the people have a sense of awareness of their responsibility for the things done in the body. How can you explain that the person who is responsible for their deeds in this way is consistent with what you have suggested here?

Doesn't change anything I stated.

 

[JLB]

I disagree, I believe all believing, and obeying the Gospel is the result of Christs accomplishment.

So you believe that believing and obeying the Gospel is the result of being saved?


Rather than being saved is the result of believing and obeying the Gospel?


Am I understanding you correctly?






JLB

 

[Butch5]

More on Redemption ! Secures unto us our regeneration

Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

When Jesus told Nicodemus that ye must be born again, of course He was not commanding him to be born again, for that would be like telling him he must enter back into his mothers womb, but Jesus was stating to him a condition for being able to enter into the Kingdom of God, and I know many would agree with this conclusion.

However there is another reason why one must be born again, if indeed Jesus died for their sins, and that is so they may have a new life in order to now serve God pleasingly in Spirit and in Truth, for they now must serve Him in the newness of life. Rom 6:4

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

The word for newness is the greek word kainotēs:

newness

a) in the new state of life in which the Holy Spirit places us so as to produce a new state which is eternal life.

Thats right, God's Justice provides for and demands a Newness of Life to serve Him. All for whom Christ died and redeemed must be made alive, because Christ has died the death that they have deserved and has merited for them the Full Blessing of Eternal Life. Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Lets look at Rom 5:18

18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. As a end result of the redemption we have in Christ, notice the b section of the verse :

"even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men[without distinction] unto justification of life."

Now Legal, forensic Justification as important as it is, it was not God's only objective for Christ's redeeming death. His death was also purposed to give Life, and this Life comes through the Spirit. Its by His Gift of the Holy Spirit, unto all for whom Christ died and redeemed, we receive Justification unto Life ! based solely upon one act of righteousness or as it states in vs 19, His one act of obedience: Justification unto life by the Spirit is also what Paul refers to in 1 Cor 6:11

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Justification unto or into life by the Spirit. This must be because the old life has been crucified with the Lord Jesus Christ, all of its sins , past, present and future have been blotted out once and for all, so now we must be born again to serve in the Newness of Life, Gods Justice demands it for Christ sake.

There seems to be a few issues here. If justification of life came to all men without distinction and not all receive justification of life, then likewise death came to all men without distinction and not all die. If the meaning of all changes then Paul's analogy breaks down. It's pretty clear that he's comparing one to the other.

You said, "All for whom Christ died and redeemed must be made alive, because Christ has died the death that they have deserved and has merited for them the Full Blessing of Eternal Life". If Christ died the death they deserve, then why do they also die?

You also said, "all of its sins , past, present and future have been blotted out once and for all". However Peter has a different take on it.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. (2 Pet. 1:8-9 KJV)

 

[brightfame52]

So you believe that believing and obeying the Gospel is the result of being saved?


Rather that being saved is the result of believing and obeying the Gospel?


Am I understanding you correctly?






JLB

I believe what I just said.

 

[brightfame52]

There seems to be a few issues here. If justification of life came to all men without distinction and not all receive justification of life, then likewise death came to all men without distinction and not all die. If the meaning of all changes then Paul's analogy breaks down. It's pretty clear that he's comparing one to the other.

You said, "All for whom Christ died and redeemed must be made alive, because Christ has died the death that they have deserved and has merited for them the Full Blessing of Eternal Life". If Christ died the death they deserve, then why do they also die?

You also said, "all of its sins , past, present and future have been blotted out once and for all". However Peter has a different take on it.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. (2 Pet. 1:8-9 KJV)

I dont see any breakdown in Rom 5:18. The all men that Justification of life came upon are the all men Christ represented, His Church, Sheep, the Elect. That should be common spiritual sense since you know all men without exception arent Justified !

 

[brightfame52]

jlb

So you believe that believing and obeying the Gospel is the result of being saved?


Rather that being saved is the result of believing and obeying the Gospel?

Thats correct. The Gospel is hid to them that are lost and they believe not because their minds are blinded 2 Cor 4:3-4

I have been over this with you in the past !

 

[Butch5]

I dont see any breakdown in Rom 5:18. The all men that Justification of life came upon are the all men Christ represented, His Church, Sheep, the Elect. That should be common spiritual sense since you know all men without exception arent Justified !

You don't see a breakdown? If all men only means all without distinction then it means that in both cases. That means all men without distinction die, but not all men without exception die. However, we know that all men without exception die. Therefore, justification of life came to all men without exception. It has to mean the same in both cases or the analogy breaks down. So, that means that either, all men die and justification of life comes to all men, without exception or without distinction. I say all men die without exception and justification comes to all men without exception. However, just because justification of life comes to all men, it doesn't mean all men are justified because not all men receive Christ. On the other hand, you say all men without distinction die, and receive justification of life. And, because your theology doesn't allow for man to reject Christ you are forced by theology to break down that analogy.
You have to say that all men without exception die, but that justification of life came to all men without distinction. That your theology causes you to break down the analogy shows that there is something wrong in your argument.

 

[Butch5]

jlb



Thats correct. The Gospel is hid to them that are lost and they believe not because their minds are blinded 2 Cor 4:3-4

I have been over this with you in the past !

That's not what the passage says. It says the god of this world blinded the minds of the unbelieving. So, it seems they were unbelieving before they were blinded. Also, In verse three he says if his Gospel is hidden it's hidden to those who are perishing. He uses the Greek middle voice for the word translated perishing. This indicates that they were the reason they perishing. This would suggest that they were perishing because they were disbelieving, not because they were blinded.

 

[JLB]

jlb



Thats correct. The Gospel is hid to them that are lost and they believe not because their minds are blinded 2 Cor 4:3-4

I have been over this with you in the past !

Ok so if believing and obeying the Gospel, is the result of being saved, then how is a person saved, if not by hearing and believing the Gospel?


Please show us the scripture for your theory.




JLB

 

[Hopeful]

More on Redemption ! Secures unto us our regeneration

Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

When Jesus told Nicodemus that ye must be born again, of course He was not commanding him to be born again, for that would be like telling him he must enter back into his mothers womb, but Jesus was stating to him a condition for being able to enter into the Kingdom of God, and I know many would agree with this conclusion.

However there is another reason why one must be born again, if indeed Jesus died for their sins, and that is so they may have a new life in order to now serve God pleasingly in Spirit and in Truth, for they now must serve Him in the newness of life. Rom 6:4

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

The word for newness is the greek word kainotēs:

newness

a) in the new state of life in which the Holy Spirit places us so as to produce a new state which is eternal life.

Thats right, God's Justice provides for and demands a Newness of Life to serve Him. All for whom Christ died and redeemed must be made alive, because Christ has died the death that they have deserved and has merited for them the Full Blessing of Eternal Life. Rom 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Lets look at Rom 5:18

18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. As a end result of the redemption we have in Christ, notice the b section of the verse :

"even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men[without distinction] unto justification of life."

Now Legal, forensic Justification as important as it is, it was not God's only objective for Christ's redeeming death. His death was also purposed to give Life, and this Life comes through the Spirit. Its by His Gift of the Holy Spirit, unto all for whom Christ died and redeemed, we receive Justification unto Life ! based solely upon one act of righteousness or as it states in vs 19, His one act of obedience: Justification unto life by the Spirit is also what Paul refers to in 1 Cor 6:11

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Justification unto or into life by the Spirit. This must be because the old life has been crucified with the Lord Jesus Christ, all of its sins , past, present and future have been blotted out once and for all, so now we must be born again to serve in the Newness of Life, Gods Justice demands it for Christ sake.

Another reason for rebirth is that the "new creature" is of God's seed instead of Adam's seed.
The first "us" dies with Christ, and a new creature is raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.

 

[JLB]

Another reason for rebirth is that the "new creature" is of God's seed instead of Adam's seed.
The first "us" dies with Christ, and a new creature is raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5-6

• That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Our spirit is reborn by the Spirit, not our flesh.

Do you believe the Spirit gives birth to a reborn physical body?




JLB

 

[Hopeful]

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5-6

• That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Our spirit is reborn by the Spirit, not our flesh.

Do you believe the Spirit gives birth to a reborn physical body?




JLB

Did Jesus walk in the flesh or in the Spirit?
(I hope you answer "Spirit".)
So do those reborn of God's seed.

 

[JLB]

Did Jesus walk in the flesh or in the Spirit?
(I hope you answer "Spirit".)
So do those reborn of God's seed.

Jesus was born of a virgin and had a sinless body.

Jesus was led by the Spirit.

Now that that is answered, can you answer my question?


Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5-6

• That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Our spirit is reborn by the Spirit, not our flesh.

Do you believe the Spirit gives birth to a reborn physical body?



JLB

 

[Hopeful]

Jesus was born of a virgin and had a sinless body.

Jesus was led by the Spirit.

Now that that is answered, can you answer my question?


Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5-6

• That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Our spirit is reborn by the Spirit, not our flesh.

Do you believe the Spirit gives birth to a reborn physical body?



JLB

I was reborn from a Virgin too, God almighty. And have a sinless body.
The Spirit quickens the body that was once dead in trespasses and sins, (Rom 8:11), a body killed with Christ on the cross, (Rom 6:6); so yes, it gives life to a body composed of flesh.

 

[brightfame52]

More on Redemption ! Secures unto us our regeneration

Justification unto or into life by the Spirit. This must be because the old life has been crucified with the Lord Jesus Christ, all of its sins , past, present and future have been blotted out once and for all, so now we must be born again to serve in the Newness of Life, Gods Justice demands it for Christ sake.

So Legal Justification by the blood of Christ, and forgiveness of all sins because of the blood of Christ, this demands that all Christ died for be made New Creatures. This is so because the end or purpose of being redeemed was for:

1. To redeem us [All Christ died for, His Church] from all lawlessness or iniquity Titus 2:14

2a. To Purify to Himself a particular People as His very unique possession [ This speaks to the Truth of particular redemption] Titus 2:14

2b. To create a people zealous of good works which He had been before ordained see Eph 2:10

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

And these specific purposes and ends for redemption is effected by our regeneration, being born of the Spirit into His Kingdom. So redemption secures for us a New Creation, in order to live in the newness of Life and to perform the God ordained Spiritual Works He has prepared for us to walk in them.47