MUSIC CAN BE EVIL

[GodsGrace]

I believe that not all is as it seems in earthly music and you have raised good points. But I think part of it at least takes us back to why did Jesus go to dinner at the sinners house? Well because He did not come to save the righteous but the sick. Those who need a physician.

Jesus went to dinner at the sinner's house....
but He didn't join in and sin with them...He was trying to teach them something.

What are WE older Christians teaching the young by applying their rules to God's rules? By this I just mean that I truly doubt God is happy about this type of music....it just is not a healthy type of music.

Is rap a healthy type of music?
It speaks of violence, harm to women, and uses the most foul language. Should we also take this and apply it to God, as has already been done?

If teens want to join the church,,,they should join the church of God...not the church of metal music.

At this time in history it's an even bet that the world is more evil now than ever before in previous history. So obviously there are many places where anything approaching traditional hymns and so forth are not welcome and would never be played. So rock bands who play rock music but it's members and songs are Christian is a way for the Lord to, get His foot in the door over there and plant seeds through the songs to these unbelievers.

I'm not sure about the idea that the world is more evil now than ever...that could be debated.

There are bands whose members say they are Christian....
How about U2?
Coldplay?
Keene?

They feel spiritual at least (I mean the band).
And the music shows this.

Bands like, Skillet for instance, nothing traditional about them and yet their music does give God glory. And there's many other bands who are not necessarily a Christian rock band but blurbs of their lyrics are spiritual in nature. So it really comes down to the piece itself and discernment. The lyrics and yes, even the tuning carries weight. There are good tones and bad tones. I sort've grew up with Iron Maiden in the mix, and I never seen their music as satanic.

I'm not very familiar with Skillet, but to me they have a softer sound than some music that I'm discussing. If a person likes rock, they can't listen to opera music...but it crosses a line somewhere.
And if Skillet is allowed to play in churches --- I'm still opposed to that.

 

[Boaz]

I just answered Luminous_Rose about your comment.
I'll have to agree with you that there's zero reverence.

I do believe this music is going out of style and will not be around much longer....

I hope you are right about it going away. I left one church because they brought that self serving, self seeking garbage in, though that was not the only reason.
As soon as they brought the rock music and loud clashing noise in everything else went south. Sure more young people came in and along with it an arrogance and superiority and super spirituality and a TAKE OVER!

 

[jasonc]

Skillet ,being local.they aren't usually, in,church worship,songs but I,have heard them .

You,confuse lyrics,styles of music .most old church music from Luther's day was old bar songs made into Gospel.

Lyrics are the key . not,the style or genre .

 

[jasonc]

I'm not,into the style of self serving garbage or how ccm is more about entertainment then uplifting at times.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Is rap a healthy type of music?
It speaks of violence, harm to women, and uses the most foul language. Should we also take this and apply it to God, as has already been done?

You could make the same argument about country music--have you listened to a country music station? 90% of the songs are about getting drunk, cheating on your wife, etc. That doesn't mean country music is bad.

Christian rap exists. NF and LeCrae are examples. The style isn't the issue, the lyrics are.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Most old church music from Luther's day was old bar songs made into Gospel.

Yup. My piano teacher told me this.

I like all kinds of music, except country, which just isn't my thing. There's art to be found in each one. (I'm an artist at heart.)

 

[jasonc]

Yup. My piano teacher told me this.

I like all kinds of music, except country, which just isn't my thing. There's art to be found in each one. (I'm an artist at heart.)

I,can use photography to glorify God or to promote sin.the equipment isn't,the issue but the subject matter .

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

I,can use photography to glorify God or to promote sin.the equipment isn't,the issue but the subject matter .

Just like it is with guns. It's all on how you use it that matters not the thing itself. (I apologize if this thread turns political because of this statement because that's not my intention. Just stating my beliefs is all.)

 

[jasonc]

My,issue with contemporary Christian music is its lack of solid theology .I'm not,into perfection but its got sissies.there is a lot of pressure to produce and also rewards based on,sales versus whether God used that person's music.though high sales can be that indicator

 

[Boaz]

Skillet ,being local.they aren't usually, in,church worship,songs but I,have heard them .

You,confuse lyrics,styles of music .most old church music from Luther's day was old bar songs made into Gospel.

Lyrics are the key . not,the style or genre .

I don't know about genre, genres can go different ways, it probably is important though I don't feel it is restricted to only one. Style is important. The lyrics are not the key. You can say one thing with words while portraying a completely different message with the sound and performance. We should ALWAYS approach God with reverence. There is nothing reverent in rap or metal etc. It is a display of SELF, not worship, no matter how we may kid ourselves about this. We have even been taught in our churches to approach God in prayer without reverence, but flippant, as though He is like us. That Jesus is our personal Savior and friend does not mean that we are on equal terms with Him, it means that He was crucified for us personally, by name, and took the wrath of God upon Himself, the wrath WE deserve, so we have access into the HOLY OF HOLIES. That requires REVERENCE AND AWE.

Skillet ,being local.they aren't usually, in,church worship,songs but I,have heard them .

You,confuse lyrics,styles of music .most old church music from Luther's day was old bar songs made into Gospel.

Lyrics are the key . not,the style or genre .

 

[evenifigoalone]

I didn't say it's a sin.
I'm trying to say that it's not fit for church
and it's really not fit for any person...this is the type of music teens listen to and then commit suicide.

The music didn't make them commit suicide...it sure didn't help, and it's indicative of persons that are not stable.

Indicative...it doesn't mean that everyone that listens to this stuff is not stable.

Tbh you're making a lot of unsubstantiated claims.

What I would suggest is that it's not anything inherent with the music itself, rather it has more to do with the people that write it. Rap itself isn't inherently about drugs or violence, but it comes from people who are writing about the life they know. Country music isn't inherently about getting drunk or fornication, it comes from people writing about what they know. Rock isn't inherently about rebellion, the people who used it were reflecting their experiences. Metal isn't inherently about "being unstable", the people who write and listen to it wrote songs about their experiences as a vent.
At least I know, a lot of the metal I listen to (certainly a good chunk is not) is melancholic and venty--which attracts me, as someone who has dealt with severe depression, and who used such music as a vent. (That said, most of what I listen to is a softer sort of metal, like Red. Which, Red is very melancholic.)
The music isn't inherently that, but the people who use it are often relating their own experiences or feelings.
Thing is, it doesn't have to be limited to those experiences. At all.

Here's a metal song that is about Jesus on the cross:

 

[jasonc]

I don't know about genre, genres can go different ways, it probably is important though I don't feel it is restricted to only one. Style is important. The lyrics are not the key. You can say one thing with words while portraying a completely different message with the sound and performance. We should ALWAYS approach God with reverence. There is nothing reverent in rap or metal etc. It is a display of SELF, not worship, no matter how we may kid ourselves about this. We have even been taught in our churches to approach God in prayer without reverence, but flippant, as though He is like us. That Jesus is our personal Savior and friend does not mean that we are on equal terms with Him, it means that He was crucified for us personally, by name, and took the wrath of God upon Himself, the wrath WE deserve, so we have access into the HOLY OF HOLIES. That requires REVERENCE AND AWE.

So you like only chanting,music .newsflash.country music is a hybrid of Irish folk,music and Mexican musical influence .I know I,researched it.

You,can't tell me that the country style of,musuc won't have flesh

Most music played by,ccm groups also do include old school,worship.it,helps that I know this from my brother who plays .

Reference in a black non charsimatic Baptist church during worship is way ,way more energetic then white churches.I have seen both ,grew up in,a black charismatic church in the faith and yes these can be quiet.but also extremely noisy.cuz if God healed you,you,won't sitting during,worship.you,will,dance .David through of his clothes.but i guess being so happy,to have arc back like that is a sin.

2 Samuel 6.

I'm,not suggesting,that we became naked just that David got caught up into his Joy,that he well lost clothing .

Using the ylt it says uncovered himself .meaning he took,clothes off.but,that another thread.


And you,better believe plenty of dancing in charismatic churches can be done in the freshly way .seen pastors correct that problem.

 

[Tessa]

I believe music is an amazing gift from God. To me metal and rap is just noise.
I once went to a Bethsan service. The noise was much like wondering posted about torture music. I would never willingly step foot on there again.
It reminds me of Constantine changing the Sabbath to Sunday, the day pagans worshipped the sin,, and bringing statues into the church, and worshipping Mary because they had a goddess, just to get them into the church.
We need young people to come to Jesus for the right reasons. They need love, salvation and hope
There is plenty of the other stuff outside the church. Give them something different, something beautiful.

 

[GodsGrace]

I believe music is an amazing gift from God. To me metal and rap is just noise.
I once went to a Bethsan service. The noise was much like wondering posted about torture music. I would never willingly step foot on there again.
It reminds me of Constantine changing the Sabbath to Sunday, the day pagans worshipped the sin,, and bringing statues into the church, and worshipping Mary because they had a goddess, just to get them into the church.
We need young people to come to Jesus for the right reasons. They need love, salvation and hope
There is plenty of the other stuff outside the church. Give them something different, something beautiful.

Amen.
The young are hungry for what you speak of...
spirituality, knowing that there is something more,
a knowledge of something better than what we have here in this life.
Good point about Mary.

I like what you said here:

We need young people to come to Jesus for the right reasons. They need love, salvation and hope
There is plenty of the other stuff outside the church. Give them something different, something beautiful.

 

[Boaz]

So you like only chanting,music .newsflash.country music is a hybrid of Irish folk,music and Mexican musical influence .I know I,researched it.

You,can't tell me that the country style of,musuc won't have flesh

Most music played by,ccm groups also do include old school,worship.it,helps that I know this from my brother who plays .

Reference in a black non charsimatic Baptist church during worship is way ,way more energetic then white churches.I have seen both ,grew up in,a black charismatic church in the faith and yes these can be quiet.but also extremely noisy.cuz if God healed you,you,won't sitting during,worship.you,will,dance .David through of his clothes.but i guess being so happy,to have arc back like that is a sin.

2 Samuel 6.

I'm,not suggesting,that we became naked just that David got caught up into his Joy,that he well lost clothing .

Using the ylt it says uncovered himself .meaning he took,clothes off.but,that another thread.


And you,better believe plenty of dancing in charismatic churches can be done in the freshly way .seen pastors correct that problem.

When did I ever say I only liked chanting music? Or ANYTHING about chanting music. I don't even know what that is.
I am saying we need to approach God in our worship with reverence. And that there is no reverence in the display, or tone or presentation, or even the heart of, worldly music like rock, metal, rap and similar music. Not even the intent, if people would be honest with themselves once in awile, is worship of God. Do you think changing the words to a type of music changes the purpose and intent of a type of music?
Whay exactly do you think worship is? Or reverence for that matter, What do you think it means that God is holy?
BTW God was pretty darn specific and controlled and strict in the OT about how worship was to be done. And even in the New, Paul wrote a whole letter 1Cor., that dealt with


their out of control worship services.

So you like only chanting,music .newsflash.country music is a hybrid of Irish folk,music and Mexican musical influence .I know I,researched it.

You,can't tell me that the country style of,musuc won't have flesh

Most music played by,ccm groups also do include old school,worship.it,helps that I know this from my brother who plays .

Reference in a black non charsimatic Baptist church during worship is way ,way more energetic then white churches.I have seen both ,grew up in,a black charismatic church in the faith and yes these can be quiet.but also extremely noisy.cuz if God healed you,you,won't sitting during,worship.you,will,dance .David through of his clothes.but i guess being so happy,to have arc back like that is a sin.

2 Samuel 6.

I'm,not suggesting,that we became naked just that David got caught up into his Joy,that he well lost clothing .

Using the ylt it says uncovered himself .meaning he took,clothes off.but,that another thread.


And you,better believe plenty of dancing in charismatic churches can be done in the freshly way .seen pastors correct that problem.

When did I ever say I only like chanting music? Or ANYTHING about chanting music. I don't even know what that is.
I am saying we need to approach God in our worship with reverence. And there is no reverence in the display, or tone, or presentation, or even the heart, of worldly music like rock,or metal or rap and similar music. Not even the intent, if people would be honest with themselves once in awhile,is worship to God. (notice the TO Him) . Do you think changing the words to a type of music changes the purpose and intent of particular type of music?
What exactly do you think worship is? Or reverence for that matter. What do you think it means that God is Holy?
BTW God was pretty darn specific and strict in theOT about how worship was to be done. And even in the New, Paul wrote a whole letter (1Cor.) That dealt with their out of order and out of control services in Corinth.
Just saying.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Amen.
The young are hungry for what you speak of...
spirituality, knowing that there is something more,
a knowledge of something better than what we have here in this life.
Good point about Mary.

I like what you said here:

We need young people to come to Jesus for the right reasons. They need love, salvation and hope
There is plenty of the other stuff outside the church. Give them something different, something beautiful.

I do agree with that part, but I think we can feel free to agree to disagree on the different music styles when it comes to worship music as it has been said time and time again on here that the style of music shouldn't matter just the lyrics.

 

[jasonc]

When did I ever say I only liked chanting music? Or ANYTHING about chanting music. I don't even know what that is.
I am saying we need to approach God in our worship with reverence. And that there is no reverence in the display, or tone or presentation, or even the heart of, worldly music like rock, metal, rap and similar music. Not even the intent, if people would be honest with themselves once in awile, is worship of God. Do you think changing the words to a type of music changes the purpose and intent of a type of music?
Whay exactly do you think worship is? Or reverence for that matter, What do you think it means that God is holy?
BTW God was pretty darn specific and controlled and strict in the OT about how worship was to be done. And even in the New, Paul wrote a whole letter 1Cor., that dealt with


their out of control worship services.

When did I ever say I only like chanting music? Or ANYTHING about chanting music. I don't even know what that is.
I am saying we need to approach God in our worship with reverence. And there is no reverence in the display, or tone, or presentation, or even the heart, of worldly music like rock,or metal or rap and similar music. Not even the intent, if people would be honest with themselves once in awhile,is worship to God. (notice the TO Him) . Do you think changing the words to a type of music changes the purpose and intent of particular type of music?
What exactly do you think worship is? Or reverence for that matter. What do you think it means that God is Holy?
BTW God was pretty darn specific and strict in theOT about how worship was to be done. And even in the New, Paul wrote a whole letter (1Cor.) That dealt with their out of order and out of control services in Corinth.
Just saying.

So because it's loud to,you,.you,assume that its chaotic ,and thus flesh.

Might want to actually,ask,a person,who sings,plays that .the lead singer of iron,maiden writes his music .he wrote the odd beat of metal to rhyme if the ancient,mariner .

Of course an non charismatic would post that about worship by blacks .im not one to do that but I,understand their culture to get it.calypso music is very loud.can't beat a metal drum to,that beat quietly .

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That's not just a bunch of noise .I,don't listen to metal like I used to but having been into it.yes you can understand it.

But I guess rallying for a football game,loosing ones voice at a concert ,is ok but never at a church service.?I'm quiet by nature .I,have once danced in church.I,have never danced at a wedding or with my,wife .

So consider the other side .

 

[jasonc]

Also I have heard amazing grace twice a year at vmis,during memorial day and veterans day on a Scottish bag pipe .no,speakers needed..

The origin of calypso music is one of rebellion,I,guess because of that it shouldn't be used as slaves used it to communicate to each other ,later on to express political positions .

 

[jasonc]

Chanting

 

[Boaz]

So because it's loud to,you,.you,assume that its chaotic ,and thus flesh.

Might want to actually,ask,a person,who sings,plays that .the lead singer of iron,maiden writes his music .he wrote the odd beat of metal to rhyme if the ancient,mariner .

Of course an non charismatic would post that about worship by blacks .im not one to do that but I,understand their culture to get it.calypso music is very loud.can't beat a metal drum to,that beat quietly .

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That's not just a bunch of noise .I,don't listen to metal like I used to but having been into it.yes you can understand it.

But I guess rallying for a football game,loosing ones voice at a concert ,is ok but never at a church service.?I'm quiet by nature .I,have once danced in church.I,have never danced at a wedding or with my,wife .

So consider the other side .

Seems to me that you are doing all the assuming here.
I never said my objection was because it was loud or chaotic. You ASSUMED that is what I must mean.And isn't what I meant.
As to asking someone who actually writes the words, I am not talking about words. In fact I said words are not the key.
You assumed I'm a non charismatic. Which is true, I am not a charismatic, but why would ASSUME that.
I never posted ANYTHING about worship by blacks-------where did that remark of yours even come from? I enjoy the worship service in predominately black churches. I like gospel music. I find it worshipful and promoting worship.You seem to think I am saying church music should be somber and sad and melancholic, which is another wrong assumption. I am merely saying certain types of music, which I will not name again, are IRREVERANT.
Football games and concerts are not church and they are not pretending to worship God.
I LIKE rock and metal and country and some reggae, NEVER RAP, just not in church.
And you spent so much time assuming things about me you forgot to answer my questions.
What does it mean that God is Holy?
What does worship mean?
What does reverence of God mean?