MUSIC CAN BE EVIL

[jasonc]

Seems to me that you are doing all the assuming here.
I never said my objection was because it was loud or chaotic. You ASSUMED that is what I must mean.And isn't what I meant.
As to asking someone who actually writes the words, I am not talking about words. In fact I said words are not the key.
You assumed I'm a non charismatic. Which is true, I am not a charismatic, but why would ASSUME that.
I never posted ANYTHING about worship by blacks-------where did that remark of yours even come from? I enjoy the worship service in predominately black churches. I like gospel music. I find it worshipful and promoting worship.You seem to think I am saying church music should be somber and sad and melancholic, which is another wrong assumption. I am merely saying certain types of music, which I will not name again, are IRREVERANT.
Football games and concerts are not church and they are not pretending to worship God.
I LIKE rock and metal and country and some reggae, NEVER RAP, just not in church.
And you spent so much time assuming things about me you forgot to answer my questions.
What does it mean that God is Holy?
What does worship mean?
What does reverence of God mean?

I,don't see the the throne of heaven quiet at all ,esoecially witwith Holy,Holy,Holy. By the four creatures,not can it be with the elders tossing their crowns into the crown again and again .
Psalms 47,so we can't lose our voice to God ?

I,highly doubt isreal was quiet with that ,consudering physical victories .

 

[jasonc]

Don't confuse entertainment with genre .your issues with,the showmanship,of the music not the genre

 

[JLB]

Tbh you're making a lot of unsubstantiated claims.

What I would suggest is that it's not anything inherent with the music itself, rather it has more to do with the people that write it. Rap itself isn't inherently about drugs or violence, but it comes from people who are writing about the life they know. Country music isn't inherently about getting drunk or fornication, it comes from people writing about what they know. Rock isn't inherently about rebellion, the people who used it were reflecting their experiences. Metal isn't inherently about "being unstable", the people who write and listen to it wrote songs about their experiences as a vent.
At least I know, a lot of the metal I listen to (certainly a good chunk is not) is melancholic and venty--which attracts me, as someone who has dealt with severe depression, and who used such music as a vent. (That said, most of what I listen to is a softer sort of metal, like Red. Which, Red is very melancholic.)
The music isn't inherently that, but the people who use it are often relating their own experiences or feelings.
Thing is, it doesn't have to be limited to those experiences. At all.

Here's a metal song that is about Jesus on the cross:

Every person who writes and performs songs will give account, just like all of us, of their words.


But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.” Matthew 12:36-37


What comes out of our heart either imparts grace, of defiles the hearts of the ones we are speaking to.


Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Ephesians 4:29-30



What we allow into our hearts through what we listen to and watch, either grieves the Holy Spirit or pleases Him.



The more we spend time with the Lord, the more we know what pleases Him or not.




JLB

 

[Boaz]

I,don't see the the throne of heaven quiet at all ,esoecially witwith Holy,Holy,Holy. By the four creatures,not can it be with the elders tossing their crowns into the crown again and again .
Psalms 47,so we can't lose our voice to God ?

I,highly doubt isreal was quiet with that ,consudering physical victories .

Who said anything about being QUIET? Not ME!
I've said all I'm going to on the subject!

 

[evenifigoalone]

Disciple is one of my favorite bands. They used to be harder/more metal in the past than they are now. (My most favorite is Relient K, whose style used to be punk rock, but it's changed over time. Still great and clever lyrics, though, which is why I love them.)

Here's an example of Disciple's older songs, and one I used to relate hard to (back when my mental illness was still a big open wound):

(The song is basically about having open wounds in the emotional sense and realizing that Jesus understands what you're going through, ie "when I see You I see scars that are matching")

This is one of their more recent songs:

And another recent one:

They're actually one of the only bands I know of (out of what I'm aware of) whose lyrics tend to be heavily doctrinal. And their use of the music style to evoke the appropriate emotions is, I think, very well done.

What I'm hoping is you'll at least check out the lyrics.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I'll do Relient K too since their music style is also one that's heavily criticized. They don't do too many religious songs, though the members are Christian, but their lyrics are often very clever and, I think, often profound
Here's some of their old music:

Here's a couple examples of their music now from an album two or three years back:

https://youtu.be/iu7HKFI28l0

 

[evenifigoalone]

Oh, since it's come up I will mention that I don't think most songs by Skillet, Red, Thousand Foot Krutch, etc are meant to be played in church. I can think of a few specific songs by them that you can definitely worship to (Forgiven by Skillet is one), but overall these bands write and perform primarily for entertainment. Their lyrics often come from a Christian perspective, but they don't typically write worship music.

Which is valid. I'm an artist--I draw. Not everything I draw has to be Christianity related. A of what I draw has little to nothing to do with God. Not everything a Christian music artist makes has to be, either.

 

[Luminous_Rose]

I do believe the music kills the lyrics.
Do we want Godly music to sound like the music of heavy metal bands?

Shouldn't there be some difference between what kids do outside of church and what they bring into church? Is the church the same as the world or is it a haven FROM the world?

I suppose the question is if you have personal bias against heavy metal or is it actually evil? I still believe that not all heavy metal is bad. There is some out there that is so awful. It is the lyrics and intention behind the song that makes the difference. I understand each person has their own likes and dislikes regarding music and that is okay. To some, country is displeasing and to others it's rock n roll or something else.

I find it interesting you mention kids here. Why only kids and not adults, I wonder?

Either way, we live in this world. We are called not to be of the world and not to follow the desires of the flesh, but to pursue the fruits of the Spirit and to please God. However, this does not mean we hide from the world or not be able to enjoy some things of this world.

You ask if there should be differences between what kids do in and out of church, but why? Should we hide the music we like outside of church? Or should it always be God honoring inside the church and out?

I will let you in on a little story. When I was younger, I had my own pop songs I liked. I had a tape of said music inside the car and would listen to it Monday-Saturday whenever we were in the car. Notice a day missing? Oh, Sunday mornings. On Sunday my music was shameful. My mother would say, "None of that music before church." And, "Don't talk about your favorite bands at church." I would lie when people asked me my favorite bands/songs. I was so confused how my parents let me listen to my music, even jokingly singing along and then the day church falls on it becomes shame. This is confusing to a child. So, where is the right in this scenario at all? Would it have been to disobey my parents and tell the truth? Would it be for my parents not to let me listen to music at all?

If we are doing something that we are hiding from our brothers and sisters in Christ, we need to evaluate ourselves carefully.

 

[PeterJens]

In a different thread, another member posted the following in reference to some types of music that can have different names:


**********************************************************************************************************
That type of music is used to torture people into submission, and goes by the name “music torture”.

It’s used to drive the victims insane, and is designed to destabilize their mind to make them controllable.

Here’s a quote from a person who was subjected to this:

British citizen Ruhal Ahmed described the process in a 2008 interview with Reprieve investigators: "I can bear being beaten up, it's not a problem. Once you accept that you're going to go into the interrogation room and be beaten up, it's fine. You can prepare yourself mentally. But when you're being psychologically tortured, you can't."

He said he had been exposed to the torture "numerous times" to a variety of music. "It makes you feel like you are going mad. You lose the plot, and it's very scary to think that you might go crazy because of all the music, because of the loud noise and because after a while you don't hear the lyrics at all, all you hear is heavy banging."

again

I heard this nonstop over and over," he reportedly told Clive Stafford Smith, his lawyer and the founder and director of Reprieve, a U.K-based organization determined to end music torture practices. "The CIA worked on people, including me, day and night for the months before I left. Plenty lost their minds."

Mohamed said he could hear others in the prison "screaming and smashing their heads against walls."

*****************************************************************

We were discussing this type of music:

Stryper is a heavy metal band that is Christian.

Some might say this does not represent Christianity...but the words speak of God and Jesus and love.
These bands perform in churches....
Does this give glory to God?

There are several bands like the one above.

Is the church becoming like the world even in the music field?

I don't feel this type of music belongs in a church...I don't really care what the words are.

What's the big difference between Stryper and this:

Interesting question.
Music generates its power through emotional empathy.
It works on our brains and brain patterns. If it is true certain patterns can be used as torture this is of no surprise. A squatting position if held for a long period of time is torture, so it is not the thing itself that is the problem, but the limitations of our humanity and physicality.

I was once asked to evacute from a tower block, on the 33rd floor to ground level down stairs. It took 10 minutes to walk and my legs ached for a week afterwards. I could not imagine such a thing would take such a toll on me, and that is just walking down stairs.

Take a simple example, sleep. Deprive a human of sleep for 5+days and some will go nuts. We need sleep and the processes associated with it.

Music speaks to teenage rebellion and the darkness and depression many feel when coming of age, and the lack of promise, love and security they have in their hearts. So the problem of a few chords, dressing up and prancing about on stage for a 3 minute badly sung song, is never going to be the problem. Having depressed, aggressive and perplexed teenagers is, but facing that issue is so much harder than blaming music as being evil.

One band called Linkin Park leads singer sung a lot about pushing back in life, not being understood, parents who had failed judging their children when they had not resolved some serious issues themselves. Unfortunately the lead singer suffered from depression, which inspired his music, but also led to his death.

I used to think the getting dressed up, the aggression etc was a problem, until I realised these guys were reflecting what the youngsters felt inside, screaming and wanting to lash out, but not knowing why or how to resolve this pain and unresolveable angst, which in the end only Jesus can meet and heal.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

I suppose the question is if you have personal bias against heavy metal or is it actually evil? I still believe that not all heavy metal is bad. There is some out there that is so awful. It is the lyrics and intention behind the song that makes the difference. I understand each person has their own likes and dislikes regarding music and that is okay. To some, country is displeasing and to others it's rock n roll or something else.

I find it interesting you mention kids here. Why only kids and not adults, I wonder?

Either way, we live in this world. We are called not to be of the world and not to follow the desires of the flesh, but to pursue the fruits of the Spirit and to please God. However, this does not mean we hide from the world or not be able to enjoy some things of this world.

You ask if there should be differences between what kids do in and out of church, but why? Should we hide the music we like outside of church? Or should it always be God honoring inside the church and out?

I will let you in on a little story. When I was younger, I had my own pop songs I liked. I had a tape of said music inside the car and would listen to it Monday-Saturday whenever we were in the car. Notice a day missing? Oh, Sunday mornings. On Sunday my music was shameful. My mother would say, "None of that music before church." And, "Don't talk about your favorite bands at church." I would lie when people asked me my favorite bands/songs. I was so confused how my parents let me listen to my music, even jokingly singing along and then the day church falls on it becomes shame. This is confusing to a child. So, where is the right in this scenario at all? Would it have been to disobey my parents and tell the truth? Would it be for my parents not to let me listen to music at all?

If we are doing something that we are hiding from our brothers and sisters in Christ, we need to evaluate ourselves carefully.

I am now curious to what kind of pop music you were referring to because I listen to all kinds of pop like Michael Jackson, (although I was never a fan of him personally but still love his music) Nsync and The Backstreet Boys and I'm not ashamed of either one of those three bands. They're awesome! :D

 

[Luminous_Rose]

I am now curious to what kind of pop music you were referring to because I listen to all kinds of pop like Michael Jackson, (although I was never a fan of him personally but still love his music) Nsync and The Backstreet Boys and I'm not ashamed of either one of those three bands. They're awesome! :biggrin

Mostly Nsync, but Backstreet Boys, too. Then I later deviated away from that and listened more to Queen, Aerosmith, etc etc. =P

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Mostly Nsync, but Backstreet Boys, too. Then I later deviated away from that and listened more to Queen, Aerosmith, etc etc. =P

I personally don't see anything wrong with any of those. It's better than a lot of music today. Of course that's coming from somebody who also listens to Pitbull. Hey though the guy has got some really good inspirational quotes though like this one; "There's no losing, only learning. No failure, only opportunities, no problems only solutions." -Armando Christian Perez. AKA, the one and only Pitbull, my main dawg!! 2 Or dog, whatever.

 

[Corn Pop]

Make America Rock Again.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Make America Rock Again.

Sounds great to me!

 

[JLB]

Sounds great to me!

This is sad, that born again Christians would promote a satanic group like KISS.



JLB

 

[Susannah]

It is mostly the lyrics that are evil not the music although I must say some music sounds ominous and not uplifting.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

This is sad, that born again Christians would promote a satanic group like KISS.



JLB

What's even sadder is that the good old classic songs are now suddenly seen as Satanic and that the music industry of today has gone so far downhill. Truly sad indeed.

 

[JLB]

What's even sadder is that the good old classic songs are now suddenly seen as Satanic and that the music industry of today has gone so far downhill. Truly sad indeed.

No ma’am, not “suddenly”....

They have always been demonic.



JLB

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

No ma’am, not “suddenly”....

They have always been demonic.



JLB

Well,.. you're definitely allowed to have your opinion but there was absolutely nothing wrong with that song I just posted so you have your opinion and Dan and I have ours and obviously he enjoys it as well otherwise he wouldn't have liked my post.

 

[stovebolts]

@ wondering,
What do you think about this band? Would you consider them Christian?

Or what about this one?

The world is changing... Actually, the world has always been in a state of change, yet there is nothing new under the sun.

There was a time when the songs and the style of hymns so many of us are accustom to were also new, and i have to believe they had controversy around them too.

I brought up these two bands because on occasion, depending on my mood ill play them on my long drive home. And yes, both bands are labelled Christian bands.


Here is a kid i personally know. He used to play with my kid when they were young and we are friends with his parents. He is a song leader in the Church of Christ which only sings really old hymns out of the song book and as you know, musical instruments are forbidden. He also has a Bible study that he hosts at his home on a weekly basis.

Here is a taste of his music and yes, that's him. He has many videos on youtube of himself that you can watch.

The music i posted above would be considered soft rock in Calebs world. He loves that rough, deep growl that nobody can understand and he is an accomplished young musician.