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Muslim really laugh at folks in the Western World

Free said:
Are you actually comparing a verse from the Bible to those in Quran? Have you done any reading on this issue?
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Nope, comparing no verses at all. Just pointing out the fallacy of the argument concerning the Qur'an. Are you denying that the Bible commanded someone to be put to death for wearing the wrong type of cloth?
 
ezrider said:
Nope, comparing no verses at all. Just pointing out the fallacy of the argument concerning the Qur'an. Are you denying that the Bible commanded someone to be put to death for wearing the wrong type of cloth?
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How about you provide the verse(s). You have not shown that there is a fallacy, which is why I asked if you have done any reading on the issue. Be careful in making such comparisons between the Bible and the Quran--make sure you understand the contexts and any other issues.
 
dirtfarmer here

God said in his word those that do not love the truth will be sent strong delusion and they will believe a lie. It is my understanding that Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet, but not the Son of God.
 
civilwarbuff said:
It is more fun to just troll than understand things.......
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Well, let's be careful in the use of "troll," but it certainly is easier to just say what was heard in the news or a YouTube video or read on some forums without having actually having done some serious study or put serious thought into a given subject. We all do it at one time or another because it's so much easier.
 
Free said:
How about you provide the verse(s). You have not shown that there is a fallacy, which is why I asked if you have done any reading on the issue. Be careful in making such comparisons between the Bible and the Quran--make sure you understand the contexts and any other issues.
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Why do I need you to provide you with a Bible verse? The original point from th1b.taylor was that the Qur'an had 164 references for a call to Jihad. I simply made the comparison for the command in the Bible to put someone to death for wearing the wrong type of cloth. How many other instances in the Bible did the scripture command someone to be stoned to death. I can not condemn passages from the Qur'an while excusing passages form the scriptures. I find it to be hypocritical, but I know: there is a tremendous urge to defend the scriptures. Just like those who use the words of the Qur'an to justify Jihad, so do Christians use the words of the Bible to justify their own form of godly righteousness.
 
Free said:
Are you actually comparing a verse from the Bible to those in Quran? Have you done any reading on this issue?
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Have you ever read the Qur'an? Do you own a copy of the Qur'an? Mine sits right there on the bookshelf, right next to my 1611 KJV Bible.
 
Silmarien said:
It's been a while, but yeah, I've studied it before. There are tons of verses prohibiting killing in there as well, as well as an explicit acceptance of Christians and Jews as People of the Book. The Islamic world is a complete disaster today, but it usually did treat non-Muslim religious minorities far better than Europe did a millennium ago. No comment on the mess that Sunni vs. Shi'a Islam has always been.

I'm not sure why you think you need to support Jihad to be a Muslim, though. There hasn't been a central authority figure in the religion for a long time, there are a ton of different schools of thought within it (some of which are horrifying, yes), and people have been calling themselves Muslims and changing the rules for centuries. I've got a Syrian friend who's pretty pluralistic about the whole thing. Apparently Progressive Islam is a thing that exists as well--you'd have other reasons for hating it, haha, but I think by definition, they're not religious extremists.
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If everything you said were true logic would dictate years of vetting before admitting a single one of them when one knows what both books teach because the Imams draw from both. Christ/God calls us to be wise. To be wise one must be logical and logic dictates that if a man belongs to a nation that is overrun with terrorists that Extreme Vetting ide called for and yet, you call for us to turn off our b rains and to plunge in and commit our lives to the very people that have declared war on us and attack from within, that is stupidity. And are you of the Nations or do you just like saying things like this to make us look stupid? You do have a poor rendition of a Chief for your avatar and I have never seen anyone from the nations speak such nonsense, before.
 
Silmarien said:
You're okay with Iraqi translators who've risked their lives working for the US Army being detained? Or permanent residents of the United States not being able to travel out of the country for fear of not being allowed back in? I've got a friend from Iran who's been working in Switzerland for a couple years now--I'm not sure if she's an American citizen or a permanent resident, but if she ends up having trouble getting back into the country, that's crazy. And she's a Republican too!

Putting a travel ban in place with no warning while people are on planes into the country is foolish in the extreme. You at the very least need a period of grace for stuff like this, but our new president doesn't think things through, so we end up with chaos instead.

As far as Muslims condemning violence, I actually have seen a bit. I got an email right before Christmas from the Muslim Public Affairs Council urging American Muslims to go to Christmas services to stand in solidarity and demonstrate their support in the wake of violence. (Sign enough petitions and you get contacted by pretty much everyone, haha.) So that is something that most certainly did happen.

I do think the left is too quick to overlook problems associated with Islam, and too quick to scream "Islamophobia" when people bring up legitimate issues (terrorism, violence against women), but I suspect that part of that is backlash against the idea that Islam is inherently evil. I don't love the religion myself, but I've met a fair amount of Muslims here and in Europe and they were all decent people, cultural differences notwithstanding.

Also, liberal human rights attorneys definitely have serious issues with honor killings and female mutilation.
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so trump plan may not be perfect maybe it had flaws lack of thought on those coming back in. it is only a 90 day ban to help bring more security in place. there has to be something done would you agree with that? i had rather he try to improve something and it not be perfect .than not do nothing and security fail
but our new president doesn't think things through, so we end up with chaos instead.
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you think we didnt have chaos before? i think big problem is NO BODY LIKES CHANGE :eek2:amen
 
ezrider said:
Yeah, I find it hard to blame their Book, when the Book you worship demands a person be stoned for wearing the wrong type of cloth. Let's stick to the real problem. People, human nature, and oppression.
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Nothing productive said, I wonder why.
 
ezrider said:
Have you ever read the Qur'an? Do you own a copy of the Qur'an? Mine sits right there on the bookshelf, right next to my 1611 KJV Bible.
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i have a j.w and a Mormon Bible around here some place. see i reda my Bible seldom even look at the other two false books ... so why would i want to read the qur'an ?
 
ezra said:
i have a j.w and a Mormon Bible around here some place. see i reda my Bible seldom even look at the other two false books ... so why would i want to read the qur'an ?
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One does not even need to read the thing, it can be researched with any Web Access by querying Google Search with "164 Jihad Verses."
 
ezrider said:
Nope, comparing no verses at all. Just pointing out the fallacy of the argument concerning the Qur'an. Are you denying that the Bible commanded someone to be put to death for wearing the wrong type of cloth?
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o.t law remember the very thing you been debating jethro on...we live under grace not law...
 
ezra said:
i have a j.w and a Mormon Bible around here some place. see i reda my Bible seldom even look at the other two false books ... so why would i want to read the qur'an ?
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I am certainly not saying you should read the Qur'an, or need to in any way. Common sense would only dictate, that if you have not read something, then you really are in no position to comment on it. It is better then to simply hold your tongue.
 
ezrider said:
Yeah, I find it hard to blame their Book, when the Book you worship demands a person be stoned for wearing the wrong type of cloth. Let's stick to the real problem. People, human nature, and oppression.
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The accusation you throw out at other members is a bit much... Tell me who here worships a book? List them post their names .. it get tiresome to deal with this style of i am so much better then you others day after day .. .
 
ezrider said:
Why do I need you to provide you with a Bible verse? The original point from th1b.taylor was that the Qur'an had 164 references for a call to Jihad. I simply made the comparison for the command in the Bible to put someone to death for wearing the wrong type of cloth. How many other instances in the Bible did the scripture command someone to be stoned to death. I can not condemn passages from the Qur'an while excusing passages form the scriptures. I find it to be hypocritical, but I know: there is a tremendous urge to defend the scriptures. Just like those who use the words of the Qur'an to justify Jihad, so do Christians use the words of the Bible to justify their own form of godly righteousness.
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Complete and utter nonsense.. There is zero justification for comparing the Word of God to te words of a false prophet and actually worse because he was illiterate, the Qu'ran is the work of others that think they know what he said and all of thisw happened better than 500 years after God stopped speaking directly to men, where His Holy Scriptures are concerned and the work is proported to be the words of a prophet but when he decided he wanted to be viewed as a peophet both the Christians and the Jews tossed him out, followed with him raiding their Caravans and killing and pilfering. Does not sound like the Forgivimg God to me.
 
ezrider said:
Why do I need you to provide you with a Bible verse?
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Because you said that is what the Bible says. Either the Bible says it or it does not.

ezrider said:
The original point from th1b.taylor was that the Qur'an had 164 references for a call to Jihad. I simply made the comparison for the command in the Bible to put someone to death for wearing the wrong type of cloth. How many other instances in the Bible did the scripture command someone to be stoned to death. I can not condemn passages from the Qur'an while excusing passages form the scriptures. I find it to be hypocritical, but I know: there is a tremendous urge to defend the scriptures. Just like those who use the words of the Qur'an to justify Jihad, so do Christians use the words of the Bible to justify their own form of godly righteousness.
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Now to my point. There are certain laws within the Law where violations call for death. To get into it is beyond the scope of this thread, suffice to say that the Law was given to a certain people, for a certain time, for a certain purpose.

The same cannot be said for the commands in Quran to kill infidels. In fact, whereas the commands in the Law for punishment by death are quite early on in Judeo-Christian history, the commands in the Quran to kill infidels are in many places, even in the surah which was written close to the end of Muhammad's life, namely 9. There is no context in which many of these passages can be said to say something else, something other than to kill those who won't submit to Allah. These later verses on violence abrogate the earlier ones about peace, something that most westerners are likely ignorant about.
 
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