Must we suffer?

[elijah23]

Experience is a good teacher, I think. I burn my finger on the stove and learn not to put my finger on the stove.

Yes this is true. So what you are saying is we do not have to suffer as evil doers. What I am saying is all who live according to the word will suffer as christians. Either way suffering is a must.

When I repent of my sin, my suffering diminishes greatly, it seems to me.

 

[elijah23]

Are we discussing suffering as in persecution for being a Christian or suffering for a physical or mental ailment?

I am referring to the suffering that results from sin. My own experience with sin is that life becomes nightmarish when I choose to sin. I can see the trouble that lies ahead of me if I continue sinning. My dreams disappear and my life becomes empty. I lose all self-esteem.

I do not find myself being persecuted.

As for physical ailments, I think the Lord finds ways to relieve us of such suffering, though I do not personally have any serious ailments. I think the Lord can help us avoid some serious illnesses simply by leading us to practice healthy habits.

 

[watchman F]

Are we discussing suffering as in persecution for being a Christian or suffering for a physical or mental ailment?

I am referring to the suffering that results from sin. My own experience with sin is that life becomes nightmarish when I choose to sin. I can see the trouble that lies ahead of me if I continue sinning. My dreams disappear and my life becomes empty. I lose all self-esteem.

I understand what you mean

I do not find myself being persecuted.

Well then something is not right scripture tell us all who live godly WILL suffer persecution.

 

[elijah23]

I do not find myself being persecuted.

Well then something is not right scripture tell us all who live godly WILL suffer persecution.

People treat me very well, both inside and outside the church, I would say.

 

[PouringRain]

I replied earlier, but I guess it never showed up.

In short, I wrote that we must suffer in life and suffering is inevitable. It is through the pain and trials that God shapes our character and perfects us. When he places us in the fire, he refines us and molds us. Suffering is a given.

Since this thread has evolved some since I first read it and posted.... I will add that yes, people suffer as a result of sin. There are consequences to actions. But not all suffering is at our own hands or is a result of our own sin.

 

[watchman F]

I do not find myself being persecuted.

Well then something is not right scripture tell us all who live godly WILL suffer persecution.

People treat me very well, both inside and outside the church, I would say.

Luke 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

Matthew 5
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Being treated well by the world is a sign of a false prophet/convert, yet being persecuted by the world is a sign of true conversion.

 

[elijah23]

Luke 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.

Matthew 5
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Being treated well by the world is a sign of a false prophet/convert, yet being persecuted by the world is a sign of true conversion.

I stand up for what I believe in, I believe. You can testify to that.

 

[elijah23]

Matthew 5
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. [/b]

Being treated well by the world is a sign of a false prophet/convert, yet being persecuted by the world is a sign of true conversion.

We are taught to love. I try to do that. If people want to love me back, I think that is a good thing, not a bad thing.

 

[elijah23]

Matthew 5
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. [/b]

Being treated well by the world is a sign of a false prophet/convert, yet being persecuted by the world is a sign of true conversion.

Do you love people, even your enemies, as the Lord taught us to do?

 

[PouringRain]

Elijah, from your last few posts it sounds as though you feel like your Christianity is on trial and you need to defend yourself. I am sorry if anyone's posts made you feel that way. I don't think that was the intent.

There are many, many pastors out there who say the same as some of the things posted in this thread: if your life is too comfortable, then your life is not right with God (in essence). I sat in a sermon a few weeks ago on that topic and it is not a new idea.

But.......... BUT...... this is not necessarily true. I do agree with the line of thought that when we are in a right relationship with God there will be difficulty and trials (see my previous post). But this does not mean that 24/7 our life will be rocked. There may be long periods of time when life seems so grand and wonderful and everything is just so perfect in our walk with God. Then there are times when it seems as though God has turned his back and left us, and is ignoring all our cries for help. Those times will happen even to the believer who is in right relationship with God and in the absence of sin, intended to mold us and shape our character, etc. Even Jesus was led by the spirit to be tempted by Satan, and Jesus was without sin. Even Jesus cried in the garden and asked God if there was any other way, but if not he would be obedient unto death. Even Jesus faced so much suffering, and he was without sin. We also will face suffering, even without sin. What I mean by that is that not all suffering is a result of sin.

Yet, this does not mean that a Christian's life will always be suffering, nor will it always be grand. You talk about how great your life is when you do not sin and since you became a Christian, etc. Thank God for these times of plenty! In a week, or a month, or a year things may be very different. And when the storms come, praise God in those also, for through them he is building you.

 

[jasoncran]

loving ones enemies in that sense doenst include compromise.

 

[elijah23]

loving ones enemies in that sense doenst include compromise.

Do I compromise?

 

[shad]

Matthew 5
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. [/b]

Being treated well by the world is a sign of a false prophet/convert, yet being persecuted by the world is a sign of true conversion.

Do you love people, even your enemies, as the Lord taught us to do?

Why the personal question? Jesus says to love your enemy whether we do it or not. If we dont we are sinning against Jesus.

 

[watchman F]

Matthew 5
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. [/b]

Being treated well by the world is a sign of a false prophet/convert, yet being persecuted by the world is a sign of true conversion.

Do you love people, even your enemies, as the Lord taught us to do?

Yes I do

 

[jasoncran]

loving ones enemies in that sense doenst include compromise.

Do I compromise?

i cant tell, as i only know what you have said here.

it does say that we arent to be friends of the world, meaning that we should be set apart and holy.

 

[ORwarriOR]

Peter and Paul and the rest of the apostles suffered because they lived during very dark times. Think about what kind of world they lived in. They lived in a world of immorality, sin and darkness. Their main purpose was to bring light to the world through the teachings of Jesus Christ. That light has spread so much throughout the world and our way of living has changed dramatically since then. We don't NEED to suffer anymore, but we still need to put Christ's teachings into action. If you sin it hurts yourself, and it hurts the people around you. Odds are if you're suffering it's a result of sin or the sin of someone else. We have light in the world now, it's just our duty to keep it together

 

[jasoncran]

Peter and Paul and the rest of the apostles suffered because they lived during very dark times. Think about what kind of world they lived in. They lived in a world of immorality, sin and darkness. Their main purpose was to bring light to the world through the teachings of Jesus Christ. That light has spread so much throughout the world and our way of living has changed dramatically since then. We don't NEED to suffer anymore, but we still need to put Christ's teachings into action. If you sin it hurts yourself, and it hurts the people around you. Odds are if you're suffering it's a result of sin or the sin of someone else. We have light in the world now, it's just our duty to keep it together

odd that verse still resonates all they that shall live Godly lives shall suffer.

hmm. theres no limit to that,and when it will cease . well it stops when we die or the return occurs, whichever occurs first.

 

[ORwarriOR]

That verse doesn't specify the degree of the suffering. I'm suffering every day when I see the world around me being corrupted with darkness. When I know people are living in poverty, when I know almost all of us have enough money to spare to give a bit to charity every week instead of being guilted into putting it on the offering platter. I suffer when I see people saying they could enjoy heaven when they think people will be suffering for an eternity in hell. I suffer when I see teenagers getting drunk and sick with alcohol poisoning. I suffer when I see teenagers and men alike addicted to Oxycontin. I suffer when I see teen pregnancy because we've taught people that sex is ok, and abstinence isn't that important as long as we practice it safely. I suffer when I see people buying lottery tickets, scratch tickets and playing the slots because I know there are so many people out there with gambling addictions and Christians who contribute to that industry (which more people have to lose in to make people winners) are only feeding the problem. I suffer when I know 76% of the American population are Christians, and yet the American dream is still the prevalent attitude.



The list can go on and on, but you know what? I also try to enjoy life. I enjoy spreading love. And i appreciate every ounce of it that I get in return. As much as I "Suffer" I don't let it get me down, because I am a Christian, and my light shines bright enough that it can drown out that darkness within myself so I can help make a difference.The kingdom of God is supposed to be all around us but instead a lot of us have given up on this world and are just looking forward to the next life. Our mission is to act like Christ, and make love our #1 objective.

"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you" (Luke 17:20-21 KJV).

[youtube:ptqgcxnt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CobNWUXb1M&feature=player_embedded[/youtube:ptqgcxnt].

"This world in it's present form is passing away." They were right! The world was soooo dark back then. And they helped change the world forever. We just need to uphold it now, and not give up the good fight. So again I reiterate, when we suffer we're suffering because of our own sins, AND the sins of others.

 

[jasoncran]

you dont think that we godly christians that stand and call gay being sin, and adultery sin,and other types of sin, wont see peresecution.

i guess those christians in the 10-40 region must be only suffering from their sins, and not from the hatred of them.

didnt jesus say that the world hated me, they will hate you as well.

 

[elijah23]

Why the personal question? Jesus says to love your enemy whether we do it or not. If we dont we are sinning against Jesus.

I asked the personal question because he seemed to think we aren’t good people unless the world hates us. I’m suggesting that if you love your neighbor, people aren’t, for the most part, going to hate you.