Must we suffer?

[elijah23]

Do you love people, even your enemies, as the Lord taught us to do?

Yes I do

Then I doubt if most people hate you.

 

[jasoncran]

jesus harmed no man, nor treated men badly, yet the pharisee saw to his death.

 

[elijah23]

loving ones enemies in that sense doenst include compromise.

Do I compromise?

i cant tell, as i only know what you have said here.

it does say that we arent to be friends of the world, meaning that we should be set apart and holy.

You and I have wrestled on several topics on this forum. I can’t remember compromising my beliefs once during that time.

We need to love people, even if we are apart from them.

Being holy means being righteous—repenting of all of our sin—I believe.

 

[ORwarriOR]

you dont think that we godly christians that stand and call gay being sin, and adultery sin,and other types of sin, wont see peresecution.

i guess those christians in the 10-40 region must be only suffering from their sins, and not from the hatred of them.

didnt jesus say that the world hated me, they will hate you as well.

Those Christians in that area are suffering from the sins of others. And we contribute to that sin by not doing enough to help out. The world hated Christ at the time because like I said the WORLD WAS VERY DARK. Think about how much worse the world was back then, how much people indulged in sins worse than what we have today. Darkness is going to hate the light. That's a given. Our #1 mission is love. I don't stand up to homosexuals because, although I don't agree with it and don't think it's natural I know it causes more harm than good saying things like "God hates fags", and hurts OUR image of love. Our overall image should be that of love, because that was the image Christ wanted for us, if they want to hate love that's fine, but don't let them hate Christ, because that's crucifying him all over again. I'll definitely stand up to adultery when I have a chance because I personally know how much it hurts to have someone you think you love cheat on you. We can pick and choose our battles, but our primary mission should be one that promotes love, and not hate. Homosexuals might offend you, and you might think it's gross, but didn't Christ tell us to turn the other cheek? If you want to rebuke them that's fine but don't go on a crusade of hate. Christ also said if people don't want to listen to our message then to dust off our shoes move on and go to the next town. Christ also didn't tell us to go out to people who don't believe in God, his primary mission was to go out to the lost sheep of Isreal, and the apostles only went out to those who feared God originally with the message of Christ, and then let the good news of their deeds spread...

 

[jasoncran]

i have been called a bigot on this forum, by one that was banned. for standing up against a certain group wanting rights. as i believe that is sin.

so even though that isnt violient,but we will be made fun off , and hated for our message.

we are call sin sin, and to call the sinner to repent.

uh, no. if you look in the western world. its a comin

if you doubt that, then google the manhattan declartation and what it is. and why

we suffer because we do that which is right. james called that an ocassion to be joyous.

 

[elijah23]

you dont think that we godly christians that stand and call gay being sin, and adultery sin,and other types of sin, wont see peresecution.

i guess those christians in the 10-40 region must be only suffering from their sins, and not from the hatred of them.

didnt jesus say that the world hated me, they will hate you as well.

I state over and over again that sex outside of marriage and homosexuality are sins, and I am not persecuted. I do not announce it to everyone I see—giving pearls to swine serves no purpose, does it?

Note how Jesus was treated. When he entered Jerusalem, he was given a hero’s welcome by the masses. People in high places wanted him dead, however.

You have to watch out for those people in high places, perhaps.

 

[elijah23]

jesus harmed no man, nor treated men badly, yet the pharisee saw to his death.

People in power did not like Jesus, apparently. They were jealous of him or feared they would lose their lofty standing because of him.

 

[elijah23]

i have been called a bigot on this forum, by one that was banned. for standing up against a certain group wanting rights. as i believe that is sin.

so even though that isnt violient,but we will be made fun off , and hated for our message.

we are call sin sin, and to call the sinner to repent.

uh, no. if you look in the western world. its a comin

if you doubt that, then google the manhattan declartation and what it is. and why

we suffer because we do that which is right. james called that an ocassion to be joyous.

The people who seem to dislike me are certain “religious†people who believe differently than I do. They seemingly cannot tolerate people that disagree with them about this subject or that.

 

[jasoncran]

jesus harmed no man, nor treated men badly, yet the pharisee saw to his death.

People in power did not like Jesus, apparently. They were jealous of him or feared they would lose their lofty standing because of him.

so, you never speak out agianst sin. just keep quiet then.

that's not what the lord said.

and some will do this because we should be turning the world upside down.

think about it this way

would the porn insdustry just love us, if we through the power of God get all men and woman that watch that junk saved and to turn from that sin,

no we are taking money from them.! they would hate us.porn is demonic and dark. expose the light to those in it, and they repent will save ,marriages, cause the abortion industry to lose money,(and save the born) and so on.

those that live off that death industry wont love us.

 

[jasoncran]

who said i hate you,

you seem to have rather seeker friendly approach.

dont tell them that sin is bad ,and that hell is real.
while we can overboard on that, and get judgmental. we need to remind them that hell is real. and the need to repent is at hand.

i tend to be rather like that, and i have crossed the line a few times.

but would you rather have someone tell you something that you dont to hear and the truth, and you change

or a lie, and you continue in the same bad habit or err.

i choose the former though i dont like correction.

 

[ORwarriOR]

Gaheena, tartaroo, and Hades are real but it's punishment is not eternal. Hell is a man-made pagan influenced doctrine and it's definition is only in English. If people want to die they have that choice. Thinking that our God would mercilessly torture people for not coming to Christ is letting satan into your mind and allowing him to spread his darkness. My God loves mercy, and I could NEVER enjoy heaven if ANYONE was suffering for an eternity let alone MILLIONS of people. How can you say you would? That goes against the very principle of loving your neighbors and enemies as yourself

 

[jasoncran]

so jesus talked more death then heaven?
odd if death is all that there is for the sinner.

live for the lord, and suffer, and get eternal life
live for self, and pleasure, and get death(nothing)

hmm odd.

 

[ORwarriOR]

so jesus talked more death then heaven?
odd if death is all that there is for the sinner.

live for the lord, and suffer, and get eternal life
live for self, and pleasure, and get death(nothing)

hmm odd.

I didn't say that. I said those who live for themselves and get pleasure will most certainly be thrown into Gaheena where they will be either destroyed or purified (I personally lean more towards destruction of the soul, but others have presented a very good case that it purifies the soul and allows them to see the error of their ways; either way it's a place you don't' want to go (indicated by weeping and gnashing of the teeth) to but ultimately it doesn't last forever).

Really can you REALLY say you could enjoy heaven if you knew there were people being tortured without mercy forever and ever? Ask yourself and ask the holy spirit, and listen to your heart. Because I've read the scripture without any prior man-made guidelines to influence me, and I accept Christ and the holy spirit as my #1 teacher. And the answer I get is NO. So either heaven isn't all that great and there's no point in living a life of righteousness because I'd still suffer knowing people were suffering for an eternity; or I can accept the fact that my God is very merciful and he wouldn't torture his creations for an eternity, but rather simply punish them for their wicked deeds.

 

[elijah23]

[so, you never speak out agianst sin. just keep quiet then.

that's not what the lord said.

and some will do this because we should be turning the world upside down.

think about it this way

would the porn insdustry just love us, if we through the power of God get all men and woman that watch that junk saved and to turn from that sin,

no we are taking money from them.! they would hate us.porn is demonic and dark. expose the light to those in it, and they repent will save ,marriages, cause the abortion industry to lose money,(and save the born) and so on.

those that live off that death industry wont love us.

I frequently speak out against sin.

The Lord told us not to give pearls to swine.

 

[elijah23]

who said i hate you,

you seem to have rather seeker friendly approach.

dont tell them that sin is bad ,and that hell is real.
while we can overboard on that, and get judgmental. we need to remind them that hell is real. and the need to repent is at hand.

i tend to be rather like that, and i have crossed the line a few times.

but would you rather have someone tell you something that you dont to hear and the truth, and you change

or a lie, and you continue in the same bad habit or err.

i choose the former though i dont like correction.

I didn’t say you hated me. I said the people who seem to dislike me are people who call themselves Christian, who seem unable to tolerate people who disagree with them on this issue or that. Actually, I was hoping you and I had become friends.

I would rather someone tell me the truth than tell me what I wanted to hear.

 

[elijah23]

Gaheena, tartaroo, and Hades are real but it's punishment is not eternal. Hell is a man-made pagan influenced doctrine and it's definition is only in English. If people want to die they have that choice. Thinking that our God would mercilessly torture people for not coming to Christ is letting satan into your mind and allowing him to spread his darkness. My God loves mercy, and I could NEVER enjoy heaven if ANYONE was suffering for an eternity let alone MILLIONS of people. How can you say you would? That goes against the very principle of loving your neighbors and enemies as yourself

I agree with this. The only way we can suffer throughout all eternity is if we refuse to repent of our sin throughout all eternity, I believe.

 

[ORwarriOR]

Gaheena, tartaroo, and Hades are real but it's punishment is not eternal. Hell is a man-made pagan influenced doctrine and it's definition is only in English. If people want to die they have that choice. Thinking that our God would mercilessly torture people for not coming to Christ is letting satan into your mind and allowing him to spread his darkness. My God loves mercy, and I could NEVER enjoy heaven if ANYONE was suffering for an eternity let alone MILLIONS of people. How can you say you would? That goes against the very principle of loving your neighbors and enemies as yourself

I agree with this. The only way we can suffer throughout all eternity is if we refuse to repent of our sin throughout all eternity, I believe.

I think the concept of eternal Hell screwed up our church completely, and clouds the main focus of love. It in turn turns our church into a crusade of conversion, love shouldn't be a crusade. I think it needs to be completely written out of every church's doctrine. I still believe in punishment, and I think it should still be taught, but eternal? Come on, there is so much scriptural evidence against it if we look at the original greek words and their meanings; not to mention the basic moral evidence behind it that's ingrained into our minds by the holy spirit.

The way I see it, only satan would want you to think of your God like that when God clearly says he loves mercy. And if we believe it, then who have we really put in our Church?

I think paul seen it coming too:
“let no man beguile you in any wise: for (it will not be,) except the falling away come first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, he that opposeth and exalteth himself against all that is called God or that is worshipped; so that he sitteth in the temple of God, setting himself forth as God†(2 Thes 2:3-4 ASV).

 

[jasoncran]

if the aeon, doenst mean eternal,then how can heavean for the saved be eternal?

 

[ORwarriOR]

if the aeon, doenst mean eternal,then how can heavean for the saved be eternal?

What if it's not? And what if the power of letting this darkness spread can kill that dream? But trust me, light always wins over darkness

Also aeon refers to an indefinte period of time. Not eternity anyway. I'm sure spending any time in gaheena would seem like an aeon, but aeon simply means a very long time.

Like they said, it is from the Greek ????, and refers to a long period of time (frequently described metaphorically as 1000 years). It was used by the Greeks in different ways. The most common use was as a description of the ages of human history, usually with the understanding that each age began and ended with a significant divine event.

Heaven and hell are never used in the same sentence so how can we assume the aeon for either is the same?

 

[jasoncran]

if the aeon, doenst mean eternal,then how can heavean for the saved be eternal?

What if it's not? And what if the power of letting this darkness spread can kill that dream? But trust me, light always wins over darkness

Also aeon refers to an indefinte period of time. Not eternity anyway. I'm sure spending any time in gaheena would seem like an aeon, but aeon simply means a very long time.

really, lets define what light means to you.

first, then we can continue.