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Must we suffer?

jasoncran said:
because you seem to make a big issue of out it, and that limbo thing and so is based on the catholic idea, not the bible based one.

limbo,purgotory(while the jew believes that) isnt in the nt.

please that is in reference to the ot priests and the ot convenent
Click to expand...

That's the new covenant. Whether you want to believe it or not. It's written clearly in black and white. Preaching the gospel and trying to save people from a pagan concept of hell which isn't true based on biblical evidence and established research which came into effect way before our time. Acting completely like Christ is action.

James 2:14-17 (NIV) 14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it not accompanied by action, is dead.

You're also forgetting that Paul went out to people who already feared the living God. They didn't want to be under mosaic law, but they still feared God because they heard about him already, then went to them and taught them. People you are trying to save from everlasting fire are not afraid of God. As far as I know Paul's primary goal was teaching people how to act.
 
uh what of the ephesians verses i gave you?

if we arent to have a teacher show us the bible then explain that.

its still both, for with the bible in hand to verify the verses that is being taught and the hs illumanting that.

we have men being called by that verse to teach, and somebody must be taught
 
jasoncran said:
uh what of the ephesians verses i gave you?

if we arent to have a teacher show us the bible then explain that.

its still both, for with the bible in hand to verify the verses that is being taught and the hs illumanting that.

we have men being called by that verse to teach, and somebody must be taught
Click to expand...

Teachers are in the church. We go to them, to teach us the gospel.
 
I am going to bed for the night. I will pray for you that you can clear the darkness out of your mind. Eternal hell is a very dark thought whether or not you want to admit it, and keeps us from letting our true light shine, I can tell you're a person very strong in the faith, and I think you have a lot of light to shine. I've given you all the evidence that you could need in order to disprove it but you don't want to believe it. It still won't stop me from praying for you, and your understanding. Much like I am going to continue to pray that the whole world will eventually unveil this truth.
 
James 2:14-17 (NIV) 14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it not accompanied by action, is dead.

You're also forgetting that Paul went out to people who already feared the living God. They didn't want to be under mosaic law, but they still feared God because they heard about him already, then went to them and taught them. People you are trying to save from everlasting fire are not afraid of God. As far as I know Paul's primary goal was teaching people how to act. what he tried to save the lost! the jews then didnt accept christ!!!!! if they did they wouldnt have stoned him, if he as a jew was already "fearing" the living God why then he did consent to the death of stephen?

hmm

wow that way out there, are you aware that pastor is responsible for proper teaching to the local body? might i suggest a one on one with yours.
if you doubt that see revalation 1 to 4 and what the lord says about removing the candles(pastors)from the church for failing to heed his directions and to purge the false doctrines and other things.
 
ORwarriOR said:
I am going to bed for the night. I will pray for you that you can clear the darkness out of your mind. Eternal hell is a very dark thought whether or not you want to admit it, and keeps us from letting our true light shine, I can tell you're a person very strong in the faith, and I think you have a lot of light to shine. I've given you all the evidence that you could need in order to disprove it but you don't want to believe it. It still won't stop me from praying for you, and your understanding. Much like I am going to continue to pray that the whole world will eventually unveil this truth.
Click to expand...

really, i went to that site and found a link to this.
http://www.adcguides.com/

it seems that satan doesnt want us to know the truth eh?
the truth that we can talk to the dead? hmm
where is that in the bible?

hmm i smelled withcraft in that posting of yours as you never really told me what that light was and what it meant to you , called the opposite darkness.

so i wonder now.
 
so thats why the idea of hell bothers you most. i dont agree with bick's conclusion but even he isnt like that. he neither accepts the idea that we can talk to the dead.

i have dabbled in witchraft, and know that is aint good, if you are doing that i will advise to repent, those spirits are exactly friendly, and can posses you.you soul is on the line with that.
 
That article I linked had nothing to do with witchcraft, I bet you didn't even read it, seen something completely irrelevant and gave up. I take no part in such things. LIght to me means love and everything good that comes from it. Christianity is all about love. Darkness is hate and everything bad that comes from it. I'm a true Christian and I put every effort into acting like Christ and putting his teachings into action. I would never do anything that I knew the Lord disagreed with strongly (such as witchcraft) so I don't know where you would get that idea from.

I just can't wrap my mind around why ANYONE would WANT to believe in an eternal Hell when there's enough evidence to disprove it. It just doesn't make any sense to me, and it's doing a great injustice to your God.
 
really, lets see. hmm witchraft was linked to on that site. is talking to the dead biblical?
witches do do that. most that i know have used a ouija board.
 
christianity is more than just love,every read the chapters on what love is?

is also avoids sin. God is more then love alone.
God is holy
God is a consuming fire
to name a few
 
ORwarriOR said:
That article I linked had nothing to do with witchcraft, I bet you didn't even read it, seen something completely irrelevant and gave up. I take no part in such things. LIght to me means love and everything good that comes from it. Christianity is all about love. Darkness is hate and everything bad that comes from it. I'm a true Christian and I put every effort into acting like Christ and putting his teachings into action. I would never do anything that I knew the Lord disagreed with strongly (such as witchcraft) so I don't know where you would get that idea from.

I just can't wrap my mind around why ANYONE would WANT to believe in an eternal Hell when there's enough evidence to disprove it. It just doesn't make any sense to me, and it's doing a great injustice to your God.
Click to expand...
if we are following the same God, why do you call it "your" GOD?

and heres the links on the left of the first page. and i clicked after life communication.
so if you dont accept seances and such like then at least use a sight that doenst endorse those things


Bible Passages Containing Yeshua's Teachings

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2000 Years of Pauline Christianity

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Statements about Paul by Prominent Theologians

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeshua and Hell

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Changing Church Views
of the Hell Myth Today

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Where Did the Separation between Yeshua and Christ Come From?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Web site for people
abused by clergy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeshua before 30 CE
Opening Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Greater Reality

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afterlife Communication

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Forum

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Contact the author

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i merely followed the link on the after life communication. and viola.
 
then theres this

http://www.greaterreality.com/

hmm that site aint helping your case at all. we are eternal beings already?
hmm thats a half truth. we have an immortal soul that will be either placed in heaven or hell, and the former is for the saved only the later is for those didnt choose christ.

veteran believes that those that die without christ will see destruction. but those arent able to speak to us the physical realm. that idea is more possible then this one above.
that link states that we have a body with and are having a physical expercience. hmm sounds new agey to me.
 
jasoncran said:
christianity is more than just love,every read the chapters on what love is?

is also avoids sin. God is more then love alone.
God is holy
God is a consuming fire
to name a few
Click to expand...

God is also just and merciful and only punishes the wicked. Can you redefine mercy then if you think your (and mine sorry) God would torture someone for eternity? He punishes the wicked. I have not even hinted at going against that. But I think it stains his name, and promotes a bad image for him when we go around claiming that our God would torture someone for an eternity.

This is God's planet. He creates each and every one of us, do you really think that he would let life continue if he kept on planning to have life destined for eternal torment? There are people who are born and through no fault of their own, (Take into account background, teaching, religious views of their country) are never going to believe in Christ and our God. Look at some of the other religions of the world and how strict they are in their countries. Do you honestly believe God would have pre-doomed those people, or not understood their position? It's ignorance that allows us to believe in a concept of eternal hell, and lets us put our trust in stupid doctrines which do nothing but soil the good name of our Merciful and loving (yet just and punishing) God. Seriously it feels like a dagger being thrust through my heart every time I hear a Christian promoting the idea. I KNOW my God isn't like that. Everything I've ever read about him in the bible goes against it. And my common sense prevails. Let your common sense win. Let your respect for God over man's image of him win. Don't let the dark thought of having a sadistic evil God win. Because our God is NOT evil. Our God is amazing.

Again do you really think if he knew so many people would have kept ending up in hell over the years, his beloved creations being made in his image, that he wouldn't have just put an end to the world long ago? Why would he keep giving people the choice of eternal torment in that case if he loves all his creations...

-----

Stop changing the subject. That website was one of MANY that share the same idea. You're just ignoring facts by letting yourself be side-tracked. You keep changing the subject because you don't want to change your beliefs to do greater justice to our God. I'm not trying to disprove Hell. I'm trying to disprove the false concepts about it that are doing nothing but hurting the image our God. How can you possibly say that non-believers are going to think any better of our God if they think he would torture someone without mercy for an eternity. That thought is just plain evil.
 
uh, no, i dont accept links from false sites that claim witchrafts. buddy, nor do i post from them.

would you accept a pastor that taught on the bible, yet didnt live it.

i check when i post something first.
 
lol, have you ever listen to pastor adrian rogers, james mcdonald, and ken graves.

hmm they dont dwell on hell on each sermon they preach.

neither does my church.

you call it evil to to call others to repentance. if the difference on the nature of punishment is only difference, then why do you call me in darkness?hmm

odd, if we both want souls saved.
i have never called you in the darkness, doctrinal err. but i have learned this. i am not called a pastor and i dont always assume that he is wrong unless its blatant. if i see it, i ask, or pray about that.
 
jasoncran said:
lol, have you ever listen to pastor adrian rogers, james mcdonald, and ken graves.

hmm they dont dwell on hell on each sermon they preach.

neither does my church.

you call it evil to to call others to repentance. if the difference on the nature of punishment is only difference, then why do you call me in darkness?hmm

odd, if we both want souls saved.
i have never called you in the darkness, doctrinal err. but i have learned this. i am not called a pastor and i dont always assume that he is wrong unless its blatant. if i see it, i ask, or pray about that.
Click to expand...

With the thought of eternal hell in our hearts, our call to get other to repent cannot be pure as well. The apostles taught that our words are a reflection of the soul, and if we let them become influenced by darkness our words are going to reflect that. If you really think our God is just and merciful, and would punish anyone for an eternity then you are contradicting yourself AND the Bible. Same as if you think you could truly love your neighbor and then enjoy heaven as they suffered for an eternity.

I'm done here. I'm not going to keep letting this bother me. I know God is ever powerful, and this message has been slowly getting out over the years, and it will continue to do so. I just hope and pray you can change your mind on this so you can see your God for who he truly is.
 
This is God's planet. He creates each and every one of us, do you really think that he would let life continue if he kept on planning to have life destined for eternal torment? There are people who are born and through no fault of their own, (Take into account background, teaching, religious views of their country) are never going to believe in Christ and our God. Look at some of the other religions of the world and how strict they are in their countries. Do you honestly believe God would have pre-doomed those people, or not understood their position? It's ignorance that allows us to believe in a concept of eternal hell, and lets us put our trust in stupid doctrines which do nothing but soil the good name of our Merciful and loving (yet just and punishing) God. Seriously it feels like a dagger being thrust through my heart every time I hear a Christian promoting the idea. I KNOW my God isn't like that. Everything I've ever read about him in the bible goes against it. And my common sense prevails. Let your common sense win. Let your respect for God over man's image of him win. Don't let the dark thought of having a sadistic evil God win. Because our God is NOT evil. Our God is amazing.



those that the dont accept still wont make it to heavan, no matter what type of punishment is biblical or not.
YOU ASSUME that we dont care for the lost,

all those that dont repent still suffer the same fate, death and seperation from the lord. no matter what good they did in loife.


if our Good made the difference in the world ,in regards to the judgment ghandi would make it to heaven


i love it when YOU asume that we , that believe in hell, dont care about the lost, simply not true at all.

i do care alot.
 
if you posted from a site that actually had NO links to the occult and new age, maybe i might be willing to listen.

if what you say is the truth then you should post from them instead.

who says that those that accept hell dont live like christ, my pastor walks the walk. i have seen him cry and weep for the sinner. crying out for mercy from God.

God is patient as not wanting us to go to hell that is why the wait.
 
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