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Jay T

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My challenge to the modern Christian world is, to get back to believing the Bible.

Jesus Christ said: Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

And, that happens to include the Old Testament too !
The very model of salvation's plan, is found in the OT, did you know that ?


Jesus Christ asks YOU (and, me).....a most important question:
"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say ? (Luke 6:46).
 
I think it would be good, too, if Christians got off the "milk" of God's word and went to the "bread" of God's word! It isn't easy for a baby to go from milk to solid food, and just the same is it for God's word. It is a little hard at first to study God's word, but then you can't live without it.
And the more you learn, the more you want to learn!
 
cybershark5886 said:
What Christian doesn't believe the Bible?
The current trend in the 'modern' Christian world is......"God Says, But I Think".

Modern Christians want to get into heaven on their own terms.
When God points requirements that are neccessary, most people say: "Yeah, But it that really nccessary to do this or that ?"


Consider this Bible verse using the very words Jesus Christ spoke...... 19:16 "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments".


Yet, how many do you know, in the church you attend, who keeps all 10 commandments, as found in (Exodus 20:3-17) ?

And the modern Christian tends to look at the 10 commandments as 'rules', instead of Principles, based on LOVE !


Jesus HIMSELF said: "IF..you love me, keep my commandments", (John 14:15).

The emphasis is clear.....'IF' a person 'loves' Jesus, they will keep all the commandments.
BUT, if they don't love HIM, they will NOT KEEP them !


Does that make sense ?

Now, I'm going one step further....into a area where the problem of not believing the Bible REALLY manifests itself......
20:20 "And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God".

These words, spoken by CHRIST HIMSELF.......yet, how many do you know, that actually believe these words of Jesus Christ's ?
 
Jesus HIMSELF said: "IF..you love me, keep my commandments", (John 14:15).

The emphasis is clear.....'IF' a person 'loves' Jesus, they will keep all the commandments.
BUT, if they don't love HIM, they will NOT KEEP them !

Does that make sense ?
Yes, that makes sense to me.
When you've lived your life in such a way that you know what it means to be in bondage, then you will understand that the laws of God are the boundries that serve to keep us free instead of restrict us.
To me, the law represents freedom, because within His safe boundries there can be no bondage.
 
The emphasis is clear.....'IF' a person 'loves' Jesus, they will keep all the commandments.
BUT, if they don't love HIM, they will NOT KEEP them !

Jay T...
Let's be real with each other here, I don't want you to lie to me okay, remember keep the 10 commandments okay? Since you been born again, don't tell me you don't ever see a hott looking woman wearing something tight and showing off her beautiful figure that you never lust in your heart after her?? We are all just men (and woman), we all have desires and needs to be fulfilled. To say that you never lust after a woman would be a complete lie. Because every man and woman have done this since they were born again. Last night I was flipping through the TV channels and saw a Victoria Secert special on TV. I stopped and watched about five minutes of it. The women were tottaly hott!! But I had to turn the channel because of lust. We all and I mean we ALL deal with this issue. Maybe not everyday, but more then you probably care to explain.
 
Atonement said:
But I had to turn the channel because of lust.

You sinned, you repented, you’re forgiven. Now you are sinless before God again. Jesus says; “Go and sin no more.†Next time, turn the channel before you are tempted. Now was that so impossible?

:smt102
 
Exactly my point. But to say I am without sin or I do not commet sin because I love Jesus. That's a horse of another color.

I do my best to keep the commandments of God, but NO WAY possible is that going to happen. So therefore Jesus told us, instructed us and commanded us to repent. It is pretty simple, if one just keeps the Bible in context
 
Atonement said:
Jay T...
Let's be real with each other here, I don't want you to lie to me okay, remember keep the 10 commandments okay? Since you been born again, don't tell me you don't ever see a hott looking woman wearing something tight and showing off her beautiful figure that you never lust in your heart after her?? We are all just men (and woman), we all have desires and needs to be fulfilled. To say that you never lust after a woman would be a complete lie. Because every man and woman have done this since they were born again. Last night I was flipping through the TV channels and saw a Victoria Secert special on TV. I stopped and watched about five minutes of it. The women were tottaly hott!! But I had to turn the channel because of lust. We all and I mean we ALL deal with this issue. Maybe not everyday, but more then you probably care to explain.

That's the modern world talking, Atonement.

"We all have needs that must be fulfilled"...

"It isn't my fault I like to look at women - who does it hurt?"

"Every man and woman has lusted every day since they were attracted to the opposite sex".

I know from experience that God can train us out of that bondage. While I still have my own faults to work with, lust is rarely one of them. The moment I find myself confronted in the situation you named above, I remove myself from that situation. I willfully turn away, KNOWING that my mind will sin if I allow it. It is a matter of will over fleshy desires. It can be done, but like working out, it takes time and effort. Just like we do different exercises to work the pectorals, we also spiritually train ourselves to work on a given personality fault.

Rather than blame our inherent nature, throwing up our arms and saying "it's only human nature", we MUST make the effort to become more holy - it is an expression of love for God (not so we can be saved). If you find your triceps are weak, you train them. If you find your mind is weak in the area of lust, you train it. In both cases, this requires an HONEST self-appraisal. At that point, we pick something that can be accomplished, one fault at a time. With God's help, we WILL succeed and be able to keep such vices under control. This is part of the journey - our sanctification.

Trust in God - He will aid you - if you intend to make the effort.

Regards
 
cybershark5886 said:
What Christian doesn't believe the Bible?

Well.....maybe not the Episcopals..... J

All ‘Christians’ believe the Bible, but most don’t believe what it says. It’s kinda like believing that Jesus is Lord, but he’s not someone you have to obey. What we have is a woeful lack of the fear of God. Most have more respect for Judge Judy, Phil, Regis or Oprah. The more religious types worship the fictionary Apostle Paul, Calvin,..John, not Hobbs or some TBN star stud. What you need to do is read your Bible, at least one time. But not by the spoonful with sugar while holding your nose.

When you turn on your tv, you should have an image of an enormous angel standing there with his staff in hand, ready to avenge the Lord against those who trod under foot the blood of the Son of God and count it as an unholy thing. You may get a space to repent, but when he strikes, you get this pain, maybe in the back, or the neck or the chest. If you have been warned enough, he draws his sword and strikes. You could be mortally wounded. If thine eye offend thee, cut off the plug …
 
I am a regenerated-redeemed saint seated in the heavenly places right this moment – sealed by the Holy Spirit of God – done deal – no if’s ands or buts.

Now I get in a fight with my wife of 23 years, lose my job, and get an IRS letter in the mail I am subject to go get drunk, find a strange woman, and then rob a bank to meet the other problems. You say, “I’d never do that!†I laugh at you in your pride and ignorance of the power of the flesh..

Guess what folks? I open my bible to Eph. 1:7 and Col. 1:14 and it says I’m still forgiven. My sins did not separate me from God – my sins (all of them) were forgiven at Calvary. My repentance did not save me in the first place so therefore my genuine repentance would not save me again.
 
AVBunyan said:
I am a regenerated-redeemed saint seated in the heavenly places right this moment – sealed by the Holy Spirit of God – done deal – no if’s ands or buts.

Now I get in a fight with my wife of 23 years, lose my job, and get an IRS letter in the mail I am subject to go get drunk, find a strange woman, and then rob a bank to meet the other problems. You say, “I’d never do that!†I laugh at you in your pride and ignorance of the power of the flesh..

Guess what folks? I open my bible to Eph. 1:7 and Col. 1:14 and it says I’m still forgiven. My sins did not separate me from God – my sins (all of them) were forgiven at Calvary. My repentance did not save me in the first place so therefore my genuine repentance would not save me again.
Do you think you could keep living that way the rest of your life without repentance, and still be gauranteed salvation?
If you believe such a thing as that, then your doctrine is a license to sin and is just as bad as the doctrine of Universal Salvation.
No wonder the church looks like the world if thats the kind of junk they're teaching. :o
Surely you didn't mean you could keep living in such a state without having to repent.
 
reply

Destiny, I know it is hard for some to swallow the idea that when Christians sin, they might lose their salvation. Yes, it seems they do have a license to sin, but we as believers don't need that license because we probably sin enough. Show me in Scripture where one's sins can make them lose their salvation, other than the unpardonable sin? Also, How do you define what a true Believer is, and who is suppose to be the judge of that?



May God bless, golfjack
 
destiny said:
1. Do you think you could keep living that way the rest of your life without repentance, and still be gauranteed salvation?

2. Surely you didn't mean you could keep living in such a state without having to repent.
The criteria given was that God had done the work - Given God did he is saved.

1. Repentance does not justify - God justifies - when will you folks get this? :roll:

2. I never said one should not repent of any sin but repentace does not justify. Repenting is turning away. You turnig away does not justify.

A regenerated man is a new creature - he would be more likely not continue but there is no guarantee. Now - are we going to rate sins from small to large? Sounds like that is what you folks do because you sin every day - Do you repent of every one????
 
Re: reply

golfjack said:
Destiny, I know it is hard for some to swallow the idea that when Christians sin, they might lose their salvation. Yes, it seems they do have a license to sin, but we as believers don't need that license because we probably sin enough. Show me in Scripture where one's sins can make them lose their salvation, other than the unpardonable sin? Also, How do you define what a true Believer is, and who is suppose to be the judge of that?



May God bless, golfjack
Jack, I have already presented numerous scriptures which prove a person must maintain their salvation or they can lose it, so have others here to no avail.
It appears I can now go out and sin my life away and I am still 'seated in the heavenlies'. Keep in mind i'm not referring to slip ups here, but a daily sinful lifestyle.
You might say, 'well if you are saved you wont live that way'. I am telling you that if you teach a babe in Christ that they can sin without repentance then you are giving them a license to sin away their salvation.
We are to be different than the world, we are to be born again.
Born again people do not make sin a practice without repenting and turning away from our sins.
For exammple, do you think someone can do the things AV mentioned their whole lives without repenting and then go and be with the Lord in the end?
If you believe such an erroneous doctrine then the only thing that seperates you guys from the universal reconcilliationist camp is a one time experience with the Lord.
Where is there any room for the fear of the Lord in such a believe system?
The word is clear, 'we must be born again' ....we also have to walk in the new birth daily maintaining our relationship and tending it so as not to fall away.
Read 2 Thess.
 
AVBunyan said:
The criteria given was that God had done the work - Given God did he is saved.

1. Repentance does not justify - God justifies - when will you folks get this? :roll:

2. I never said one should not repent of any sin but repentace does not justify. Repenting is turning away. You turnig away does not justify.

A regenerated man is a new creature - he would be more likely not continue but there is no guarantee. Now - are we going to rate sins from small to large? Sounds like that is what you folks do because you sin every day - Do you repent of every one????
A genuine sorrowful attitude and repentant heart concerning sin is a good sign a person is born of the spirit of God, but it is Jesus Christ who justifies His own through a relationship with Him.
The conditions in this relationship are that a person must maintain their relationship with Him daily, and walk in obedience.
If a person truly loves God they will want to do these things.

The way is narrow, not broad.
 
destiny said:
The conditions in this relationship are that a person must maintain their relationship with Him daily, and walk in obedience.
If a person truly loves God they will want to do these things. The way is narrow, not broad.

Again with feeling...

Do you repent of every one of your daily sins????
 
Hi everyone,

I believe that those chosen, elect children of God, will persevere, and walk in repentance, and good works...these will be those who overcome through Christ, and do not try to enter in by their own righteousness, but also have hearts of obedience so that their great salvation is not neglected, and Christ is not trampled. Essentially, they will not fall away ( not guilty of apostasy), and Christ will see them as spotless, and they will mature unto good fruit to be gathered in the harvest.

So, our security in our salvation comes in grace, but that is through faith, which involves works...we are called unto good works in Christ. Our heart/faith is revealed in our walking/working out our own salvation with fear and trembling. This is belief. Jesus did say, "If you love me keep my commandments" and we should never take that lightly, but understand that God expects obedience from those who call Him Father (the adopted), obedience to Him in Christ, which is faith.

I agree with something along the lines of what JayT said, a perfect, or upright man, will never feel that way, but always be striving to walk holy as Christ walked, in willing obedience, in humility, and in sincere repentance, especially for unbelief, or presumptuous sin, which does lead to the Great Transgression Psalm 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
These things can only be done in Grace, however, and I believe that Scripture teaches that God chooses His children...but only He see's the heart, and only He knows who will enter in. The difference between the sheep and the goats is what they did, and did not do, to the least of the brethren.

This thread reminds me of this passage...

Matthew 21:28-32
28 But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
29 He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
30 And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.


I don't believe in cheap grace, as some may define it, but rather a walk in communion with God, through the blood of the Lamb, and by the work of the Holy Spirit, a genuine grace that produces active faith in the child of God, and in the church as a whole. In this way, we can be lights, and be useful for God's plan. How can one come to the Father, in communion, without first repenting of their sin daily?

Jesus taught us to pray, "forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors, and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil." The regenerate must have this heart, or perhaps they may be counted with the goats.

The Lord bless all of you.
 
AV....lovely just perfectly said everything that I believe. Her post speaks for me. I will let it stand at that since I don't have much time right now.

Let me ask you this...

Can a person who is saved sin all they want and still get to heaven?

Can you give a simple yes or no to that?
 
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