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MY GOD, MY GOD.... WHY Have You Forsaken Me?


Here's the thing with me is that if it is my opinion I will say so. If I believe something I will say so unless correction is needed and then only verified through the Holy Spirit. If it's a thus saith the Lord then the scriptures will say that.

These are discussions and not debates as we can learn from others and everyone is on different levels of learning as there are some in here that have more knowledge than I or you have. Nowhere in this thread did I say any absolutes as I don't think anyone can really know why Jesus and David spoke those words.

If you would have been slow to read you would see I was agreeing with you.
 
Here's the thing with me is that if it is my opinion I will say so. If I believe something I will say so unless correction is needed and then only verified through the Holy Spirit. If it's a thus saith the Lord then the scriptures will say that.

These are discussions and not debates as we can learn from others and everyone is on different levels of learning as there are some in here that have more knowledge than I or you have. Nowhere in this thread did I say any absolutes as I don't think anyone can really know why Jesus and David spoke those words.

If you would have been slow to read you would see I was agreeing with you.
:horse lol mercy
 
The simplist explaination is often the right one.
As the creed say, 'He decended into Hell' .
The absence of God is hell and Jesus experienced not just death but hell for us.
Yes it is. Jesus, as the Son, stated how He felt, (not the Father), at that very moment in the intense agony of extreme pain. God never left Him. God can't disown Himself. The Father is in the Son and they are One.

Its worded different in the testimony.
Jesus "alive" in the Spirit went and preached to the spirits in prison.
 
. God can't disown Himself. The Father is in the Son and they are One.

God the Father is God, but he is not the Son or the Spirit.
God the Son is God but he is not the Father or the Spirit.
God the Holy Spirit is God but he is not the Father or the Son.

That is the mystery of the trinity, three who are one but also three.
It is clear from what Jesus said about himself and the Father that they are individuals so God the Father could turn his face away from Jesus and that Jesus could be fully aware of the isolation/separation from God that was entailed in this.

Jesus did not pretend to be tired, hungry, to cry or to be in pain both physical and spiritualy.
 
God the Father is God, but he is not the Son or the Spirit.
God the Son is God but he is not the Father or the Spirit.
God the Holy Spirit is God but he is not the Father or the Son.

That is the mystery of the trinity, three who are one but also three.
It is clear from what Jesus said about himself and the Father that they are individuals so God the Father could turn his face away from Jesus and that Jesus could be fully aware of the isolation/separation from God that was entailed in this.

Jesus did not pretend to be tired, hungry, to cry or to be in pain both physical and spiritualy.
Although it's impossible to understand the Trinity,, you've given a very good portion of some understanding of it.

The Son went to the Cross...not the Father.
The Holy Spirit is our paraclete....not the Son.
The Father decided to create...not the Holy Spirit or the Son.

Very good.
 
Here's the thing with me is that if it is my opinion I will say so. If I believe something I will say so unless correction is needed and then only verified through the Holy Spirit. If it's a thus saith the Lord then the scriptures will say that.

These are discussions and not debates as we can learn from others and everyone is on different levels of learning as there are some in here that have more knowledge than I or you have. Nowhere in this thread did I say any absolutes as I don't think anyone can really know why Jesus and David spoke those words.

If you would have been slow to read you would see I was agreeing with you.
I sway back and forth on this like a small branch on a big tree.

In my spirit I feel like Jesus really felt abandoned in that moment.

Maybe He felt abandoned by God.
Maybe He felt like God just left Him to the pack of the Jews that crucified Him. His own people conspired to get Him killed because they were afraid He might usurp their power.
Think of it...... To conspire .....
to kill the Son of God.

But then He told the parable of the Evil Tenants,,,which shows that He KNEW He would be abandoned...but maybe He actually felt it at that time. It's one thing to know something and it's another thing to experience it.

So then I'm back to Psalm 22.

Maybe tomorrow morning we could run thru it...
Too late here.
 
it is jewish tradition even to this day to quote a scripture and not to say Psalms 22:1-31

iow when a jew starts quoting the first line everyone knows what you are quoting and joins in

below is the entirety of Psalms 22:1-31 which profoundly matches exactly what was occurring at that moment Jesus was on the cross

if any sincere jew would have started quoting Psalms 22:1-31 at that moment Jesus started it they would have known beyond a doubt what Jesus was saying/doing - He was testifying at that very moment - not complaining - not forsaken or confused - He was quoting the salvation of God to people who knew he was pointing to their hope of Messiah and everlasting life - there are many messianic passages in the ot and this is one of them

look at the beauty of this prophetic scripture written 1000 years before Jesus was born

i highlighted it for easy understanding - RED is what God was doing starting with Jesus' Divine conception (amazing) and ending with His resurrection and the gospel reaching the world (amazing)- BLACK is exactly what the mockers were saying/doing to Jesus -

there is more in depth understanding of this - but to keep on topic this is the briefest answer possible

Psalm 22 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Suffering, Praise, and Posterity of the Messiah
To the Chief Musician. Set to [a]“The Deer of the Dawn.” A Psalm of David.
22 My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?
Why are You so far from helping Me,
And from the words of My groaning?
2 O My God, I cry in the daytime, but You do not hear;
And in the night season, and am not silent.
3 But You are holy,
Enthroned in the praises of Israel.

4 Our fathers trusted in You;
They trusted, and You delivered them
.
5 They cried to You, and were delivered;
They trusted in You, and were not ashamed.

6 But I am a worm, and no man;
A reproach of men, and despised by the people.

7 All those who see Me ridicule Me;
They [b]shoot out the lip, they shake the head,
saying,
8 “He [c]trusted in the Lord, let Him rescue Him;
Let Him deliver Him, since He delights in Him!

9 But You are He who took Me out of the womb;
You made Me trust while on My mother’s breasts.

10 I was cast upon You from birth.
From My mother’s womb
You have been My God.

11 Be not far from Me,
For trouble is near;
For there is none to help.
12 Many bulls have surrounded Me;
Strong bulls of Bashan have encircled Me.

13 They [d]gape at Me with their mouths,
Like a raging and roaring lion.

14 I am poured out like water,
And all My bones are out of joint;
My heart is like wax;
It has melted [e]within Me.

15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
And My tongue clings to My jaws;
You have brought Me to the dust of death.

16 For dogs have surrounded Me;
The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me.
They[f] pierced My hands and My feet;

17 I can count all My bones.
They look and stare at Me.

18 They divide My garments among them,
And for My clothing they cast lots.

19 But You, O Lord, do not be far from Me;
O My Strength, hasten to help Me!
20 Deliver Me from the sword,
My[g] precious life from the power of the dog.
21 Save Me from the lion’s mouth
And from the horns of the wild oxen!
You have answered Me.

22 I will declare Your name to My brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will praise You.

23 You who fear the Lord, praise Him!
All you [h]descendants of Jacob, glorify Him,
And fear Him, all you offspring of Israel!
24 For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted;
Nor has He hidden His face from Him;
But when He cried to Him, He heard.

25 My praise shall be of You in the great assembly;
I will pay My vows before those who fear Him.

26 The poor shall eat and be satisfied;
Those who seek Him will praise the Lord.
Let your heart live forever!

27 All the ends of the world
Shall remember and turn to the Lord,
And all the families of the [i]nations
Shall worship before [j]You.

28 For the kingdom is the Lord’s,
And He rules over the nations.

29 All the prosperous of the earth
Shall eat and worship;
All those who go down to [k]the dust
Shall bow before Him,
Even he who cannot keep himself alive.
30 A posterity shall serve Him.
It will be recounted of the Lord to the next generation,

31 They will come and declare His righteousness to a people who will be born,
That He has done
this.

ARE THESE NOT THE MOST AMAZING WORDS EVER TO DESCRIBE SO ACCURATELY WHAT WOULD HAPPEN 1000 YEARS LATER TO JESUS AND THE REASON WHY?
TF,
Would like to go over this with you.
Tomorrow....
Good Night.
 
Are we still on this? Lol
We all exist of body, soul and spirit.
Are we 3 people?

God the Father
God in flesh
God's Holy Spirit..

Psa.22:24
Neither hath He HID His face from Him, but when He cried He heard.

Can't get any simpler than that.
 
God the Father is God, but he is not the Son or the Spirit.
God the Son is God but he is not the Father or the Spirit.
God the Holy Spirit is God but he is not the Father or the Son.

That is the mystery of the trinity, three who are one but also three.
It is clear from what Jesus said about himself and the Father that they are individuals so God the Father could turn his face away from Jesus and that Jesus could be fully aware of the isolation/separation from God that was entailed in this.

Jesus did not pretend to be tired, hungry, to cry or to be in pain both physical and spiritualy.
They are One. God can't disown Himself. Therefore the Father leaving the Son is not a possible answer. I didn't state Jesus pretended anything.
 
Clearly Jesus, the Son of man, expressed emotions such as crying over Lazarus and felt tired and pain etc as the Son of Man that were not given as the Father felt.
Its clear to me that Jesus the Son of Man expressed how He felt, NOT THE FATHER, in that exact moment of utter agony and pain on the cross. God did not ever leave the Son. He can not disown Himself.

God didn't forsake David either and unlike Jesus David sinned.

If I were a betting man my money would be on just the opposite that is God inwardly strengthening Jesus to get through His trial. In the end Jesus's trust and faith was in the Father. "Father into your hands I commit my spirit"
 
They are One. God can't disown Himself. Therefore the Father leaving the Son is not a possible answer. I didn't state Jesus pretended anything.

Yet Jesus physically left heaven, he left his Godhood and became man.
Wesley brilliently put it:-
" Our God incomprehessible contracted to a span, and made man."

No you didn't say that Jesus pretended, you just assume it.
If Jesus's cry of" My God, Why have you Foresaken me!" was not a real cry of him being abandon, rejected, disowned by His Father then he is play acting.
 
Yet Jesus physically left heaven, he left his Godhood and became man.
Wesley brilliently put it:-
" Our God incomprehessible contracted to a span, and made man."

No you didn't say that Jesus pretended, you just assume it.
If Jesus's cry of" My God, Why have you Foresaken me!" was not a real cry of him being abandon, rejected, disowned by His Father then he is play acting.
I have nothing further to add but I don't believe Jesus was play acting. He was in very intense pain and agony. He expressed "emotionally" how He felt, not the Father, at that very moment. The moment passed and in the end of His intense deep trial His faith and trust remained in the Father. "Father into your hands I commit my spirit"
By the Spirit of God
The prophet saw ahead to that day. Psalm 22
Just as Isaiah saw ahead to Jesus day. "Who has believed our message..."
 
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