Yes, God the Father never left Jesus. Its not possible for God to disown Himself. As I have repeated several times already Jesus expressed how He felt, not the Father, at that very moment.
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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MY GOD, MY GOD.... WHY Have You Forsaken Me?
- Thread starter GodsGrace
- Start date
Yet Jesus did die. Was his cry on the cross play acting because he ws not goingto experience hell, that is separation from God the Father?
What was all the fuss about in gethsamane if all that was going to happen was apainful death. Yes to us that is bad enough, but we already experience a partial separation from God and the sting of death is sin, eturnal separation from God. Which you say Jesus never experienced.
What evidence do you have that Jesus didn't die spiritualy on the cross.
Everything the bible says about the cross is to do with death and death in the bible refers to physical and spiritual death.
What evidence do you have to show that God the Father did not leave Jesus.
You are aware that the standard interpretation of Jesus's cry is that God the Father had separated himself from Jesus, because at that moment Jesus was sin. He wasbarring all our sin, guilt and shame.
If God cannot disown the wild olive branches that were grafted into the true vine how then can God disown the true vine itself?
Jesus and the Father are one. Jesus and those in Him are one.
2 Tim 2:13
if we are faithless,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot disown himself
While still on the cross and before He died -doesn't sound forsaken to me
"Father into your hands I commit my spirit"
Randy
dianegcook
Member
Regardless, He did not forsake Him. He did not hide His face..
So, what is your point?
dianegcook
Member
Psa.22:24
Neither hath He HID His face from Him...
dianegcook
Member
Another thing, what other verses can you provide that Jesus called God, God?
I always assumed He called Him, Father.
I always assumed He called Him, Father.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
To die spiritually means someone is lost.
Jesus did not spiritually.
If you mean that His SPIRIT died...the spirit never dies,,,nor does the soul. Only the body dies...this is true for us too.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Jesus called God by different names, but when speaking to Him, he referred to Him as Father.
Well, his mortal body died as it was meant to do...all mortal bodies will die. God or divine part of Him did not die.
Besides Jesus quoting David word for word and wasn't speaking his own words? Besides Jesus never addressing his Father as "God" when speaking to him?
Mat 27:44 The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth.
Mat 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
About the 9th hour Christ supposedly exclaims that God has forsaken him yet in Luke at the same time we see something quite different:
Luk 23:44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
Luk 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.
Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
So was he forsaken because God could not stand the sin he bore or was he confident he was about to be received into the hands of his Father who did not have his back turned to him and who was not forsaking him at all?
Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Act 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Act 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
Act 2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
Act 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
The Lord never left or abandoned Christ according to this.
Clarke:
For David speaketh concerning him - The quotation here is made from Psa_16:8-11 (note), which contains a most remarkable prophecy concerning Christ, every word of which applies to him, and to him exclusively.
Gill:
Acts 2:25
For David speaketh concerning him,.... The Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ, in Psa_16:8. The whole psalm belongs to the Messiah, and everything concerning the person in it agrees with him; such as his trust in God, Psa_16:1 as he was man and Mediator; his very great regard to the saints, and delight in them, Psa_16:2 his disregard to others who were hastening after another God, or another Saviour, whose sacrifices, as an high priest, he would not offer up, nor make intercession for them, Psa_16:4 his exceeding great satisfaction in having the God of Israel for his portion, and in having his lot cast among his peculiar people, who were a delightful inheritance to him, Psa_16:5 his thankfulness for advice and direction in the time of his sorrows and sufferings
Joh 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
Joh 16:29 His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.
Joh 16:30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.
Joh 16:31 Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe?
Joh 16:32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.
The disciples would abandon Christ but the Father never would! This is prophecy and Jesus is not a false prophet so his words are true. The disciples would leave him but the Father would not.
Nathan12
Member
There is no doubt that Christ quoted Psalm 22:1. The Hebrew equivalent in Aramaic is recorded in the Gospel. And we must take the anguished cry of Christ on the cross as expressing that which truly occurred during those three dark hours when no one could see the visage that was marred, while Christ paid the full penalty for the sins of the whole world.
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Yes. It does seem that this is the consensus on this thread.
I will now go to the next "word" Jesus said from the cross.
Oh...and welcome to the forum!
GodsGrace
CF Ambassador
Yes, I, personally, tend to agree with you.
Matthew says Jesus cried out in a loud voice...He screamed it. It was an anguished cry....more than just repeating words in a Psalm He knew.
When He took the world's sins, and sin, upon Himself, at that moment He felt abandoned by His Father in Heaven...He was after all also 100% human at this point...and who could understand how the human can be divided from the divine? I'm not ready to debate this.
Jesus was abandoned by His Abba, and by His very own Apostles (except John) and by His very own people. He was totally abandoned and alone.
I also have to add that we cannot be sure about something like this. People back then quoted the beginning of verses because they weren't differentiated....so it also could be taht He was siting Psalm 22....but that does not make it impossible to believe that Jesus felt abandoned.
Welcome to the forum!
Was Jesus quoting the psalm or was the psalm foretelling of Jesus. If Jesus was quoting the psalm, then He didn't fulfill the prophecy but only repeating the words from the prophecy.
To claim that Jesus was just quoting the Psalm, is to say that Jesus was not using His own words. In other words, it is suggesting that Jesus was not being authentic. Anyone can quote the Psalm but only Jesus fulfills the prophecy.