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Nephilim

A giant is a giant. A nephilim is a fallen giant. Of course I'm talking about influence and reputation as humans, not physical stature which is theologically insignificant. With this in mind it seems reasonable to me that the Sons of God were fully human 'giants' themselves, but intermarriage with pagan women resulted in giants who fell from calling upon The Lord and polluted the world. Eventually only Noah's family still called upon The Lord in righteousness.
 
Deborah13 said:
I'm coming closer to being able to accept this intereptation of being unevenly yoke. Can you tie that in with this portion of this verse?

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Why would spiritually unevenly yoke people, produce mighty men, men of renown?
Click to expand...

As StoveBolts has pointed out, might and renown are not necessarily good qualities. They are also not exclusively bad either. Heroes and villains. It seems clear the villains were winning in Noah's day.
 
Sinthesis said:
The angel theory does not demand discrimination, rather it allows otherwise righteous people to justify it.

The concept of nobility passed on through heredity is by nature discriminatory. "I'm better/worse than you because of who our respective parents are" is discriminatory. "I'm better/worse than you because of our respective beliefs and behavior" is a more reasonable type of discrimination. The fact that parents can affect a child's beliefs and behavior leads to a confusion of these two types of discrimination.
Click to expand...

Please show from the scriptures in Genesis 5, and the account of the genealogy from Adam to Noah, where Giants were produced from the union of men and the daughters of men.

Stovebolts has failed to do this and has reduced his discussion to more opinion and childish remarks, which means he has nothing scriptural to add to the discussion.

Maybe you can succeed where he has not.

No Giants were mentioned before Genesis 6.

Giants were produced from the union between the sons of God and the daughters of men.

Furthermore, the sons of God continued after the flood, showing that they are not human.

You guys really need to brush up on your scriptures, rather than just relying on your opinion, and attempting to explain away what has been written in God's word.


JLB
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Please refrain from taking this discussion into the personal realm......including joking about another person's capabilities, they may be offended.....

Not directed at the last poster, only........ha that was me.
 
The nephilim(mighty 100% human men of renown who did evil in the, sight of The Lord) were the product of Sons of God(mighty Godly 100% human men of renown) who nonetheless in hubris chose ungodly wives from among the daughters of men(desirable ungodly 100% human women). These wives then raised up children who went prodigal, left their father's estate, and multiplied their great inheritance in the evil pursuit of ill gotten gain. Absent the repentance of a prodigal son arrived at through failure and lamentation, what is to be the judgement of a wickedly successful prodigal son? An entire world populated and polluted by the wickedly successful?
 
JLB said:
Please show from the scriptures in Genesis 5, and the account of the genealogy from Adam to Noah, where Giants were produced from the union of men and the daughters of men.

Stovebolts has failed to do this and has reduced his discussion to more opinion and childish remarks, which means he has nothing scriptural to add to the discussion.

Maybe you can succeed where he has not.

No Giants were mentioned before Genesis 6.

Giants were produced from the union between the sons of God and the daughters of men.

Furthermore, the sons of God continued after the flood, showing that they are not human.

You guys really need to brush up on your scriptures, rather than just relying on your opinion, and attempting to explain away what has been written in God's word.


JLB
Click to expand...


Oh my goodness, I haven't had a good belly laugh in a long time, thanks buddy! :hysterical
I'm sure you'll be pleased to know that I'm heading out for the weekend. I may be back briefly on Monday, but I'll probably be gone for the next two weeks afterward. So please, do not read my absence as anything other than I can't be here to further enjoy this conversation.

If I haven't said it clear enough, I can't find any account prior to Genesis 6 let alone in Genesis 5 where "Nephilim" aka "Giants" were produced through any sort of fornication or mutual consent.

I fail to see your point and how this backs your argument.

In Chapter 5, we have the genealogy of Noah starting from Adam. Chapter 6 starts to detail the events within Noah's life. This is presented clearly by the text.
We see clearly that within Noah's generation, that the evil of humanity prevailed so abundantly, God decided he would flood the whole world ,even though some here believe it was a local flood, yet those same ones who believe the flood was only local because of scientific evidence, they also believe in angels having sex with humans and Nephilim are their offspring where Science would call an angel a myth. Tell me JLB , did the "Nephilim" survive because the flood was local and not world wide? I'm very curious how you view the flood from that perspective.

But I regress, the Biblical narrative easily supports that sons of god were simply the sons of nobles to which I have not heard you directly reply to or refute other than to posture your stance, affirm your own stance and use one liners I call zingers that have the appearance of authority, but have no effect on me other than to cause my belly to laugh and my eyes water due to laughter because we all know your zingers are only an attempt to redirect the focus from your flawed theology and if your lucky, get somebody with an ego problem to retaliate in like against you so this whole thread gets locked. I'm not stupid... I've been doing this awhile, I can see it before it hits... :biggrin2

And with that, have a great weekend. I'll miss all the fun and excitment... but I'm sure I'll make up for it in the new 2014 SS Camaro with 436 HP and a 6 speed transmission I get to play with for the next week.. Can you say roadtrip?

Gotta go! :coke
 
Deborah13 said:
Please refrain from taking this discussion into the personal realm......including joking about another person's capabilities, they may be offended.....

Not directed at the last poster, only........ha that was me.
Click to expand...

Yes Mam! No more from me, you have my word on it!
Have a great weekend! :salute
 
Deborah13 said:
I'm coming closer to being able to accept this intereptation of being unevenly yoke. Can you tie that in with this portion of this verse?

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Why would spiritually unevenly yoke people, produce mighty men, men of renown?
Click to expand...

This is the interesting part Deborah especially since numbers 13:33 indicates large physical stature.
 
Deborah13 said:
I'm coming closer to being able to accept this intereptation of being unevenly yoke. Can you tie that in with this portion of this verse?

Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Why would spiritually unevenly yoke people, produce mighty men, men of renown?
Click to expand...

Recall when they objected to having Judges placed over them and wanted instead "Kings". The better path would be to follow God's advice but they wanted their rulers to be kings (like those of the surrounding nations) even though it meant sacrifices (where their sons and daughters would be taken).

I'm thinking that the "unevenly yoked" -- giving preference to that which is fleshly over that which is godly is just part of the wickedness that was going on.
 
StoveBolts said:
Oh my goodness, I haven't had a good belly laugh in a long time, thanks buddy! :hysterical
I'm sure you'll be pleased to know that I'm heading out for the weekend. I may be back briefly on Monday, but I'll probably be gone for the next two weeks afterward. So please, do not read my absence as anything other than I can't be here to further enjoy this conversation.

If I haven't said it clear enough, I can't find any account prior to Genesis 6 let alone in Genesis 5 where "Nephilim" aka "Giants" were produced through any sort of fornication or mutual consent.

I fail to see your point and how this backs your argument.

In Chapter 5, we have the genealogy of Noah starting from Adam. Chapter 6 starts to detail the events within Noah's life. This is presented clearly by the text.
We see clearly that within Noah's generation, that the evil of humanity prevailed so abundantly, God decided he would flood the whole world ,even though some here believe it was a local flood, yet those same ones who believe the flood was only local because of scientific evidence, they also believe in angels having sex with humans and Nephilim are their offspring where Science would call an angel a myth. Tell me JLB , did the "Nephilim" survive because the flood was local and not world wide? I'm very curious how you view the flood from that perspective.

But I regress, the Biblical narrative easily supports that sons of god were simply the sons of nobles to which I have not heard you directly reply to or refute other than to posture your stance, affirm your own stance and use one liners I call zingers that have the appearance of authority, but have no effect on me other than to cause my belly to laugh and my eyes water due to laughter because we all know your zingers are only an attempt to redirect the focus from your flawed theology and if your lucky, get somebody with an ego problem to retaliate in like against you so this whole thread gets locked. I'm not stupid... I've been doing this awhile, I can see it before it hits... :biggrin2

And with that, have a great weekend. I'll miss all the fun and excitment... but I'm sure I'll make up for it in the new 2014 SS Camaro with 436 HP and a 6 speed transmission I get to play with for the next week.. Can you say roadtrip?

Gotta go! :coke
Click to expand...
lol. road trip.
 
Sinthesis said:
The nephilim(mighty 100% human men of renown who did evil in the, sight of The Lord) were the product of Sons of God(mighty Godly 100% human men of renown) who nonetheless in hubris chose ungodly wives from among the daughters of men(desirable ungodly 100% human women). These wives then raised up children who went prodigal, left their father's estate, and multiplied their great inheritance in the evil pursuit of ill gotten gain. Absent the repentance of a prodigal son arrived at through failure and lamentation, what is to be the judgement of a wickedly successful prodigal son? An entire world populated and polluted by the wickedly successful?
Click to expand...

The nephilim(mighty 100% human men of renown who did evil in the, sight of The Lord) were the product of Sons of God(mighty Godly 100% human men of renown) .


If they were 100% human, then they would have been wiped out completely in the Flood.

This scripture completely eliminates that fact -

There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them... Genesis 6:4

The sons of God continued to reproduce Giants after the flood of those days.

All flesh all men were wiped out by the flood.

as it is written -

And all flesh died that moved on the earth: birds and cattle and beasts and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, and every man. Genesis 7:21

So He destroyed all living things which were on the face of the ground: both man and cattle, creeping thing and bird of the air. They were destroyed from the earth. Only Noah and those who were with him in the ark remained alive. Genesis 6:23

There were no Giants that hung on the Ark and survived.

All men. All things that moved on the earth.

The sons of God were not human beings, as all men died in the flood.

The sons of God were angelic beings.


JLB
 
StoveBolts said:
But I regress, the Biblical narrative easily supports that sons of god were simply the sons of nobles to which I have not heard you directly reply to or refute other than to posture your stance, affirm your own stance and use one liners I call zingers that have the appearance of authority, but have no effect on me other than to cause my belly to laugh and my eyes water due to laughter because we all know your zingers are only an attempt to redirect the focus from your flawed theology and if your lucky, get somebody with an ego problem to retaliate in like against you so this whole thread gets locked. I'm not stupid... I've been doing this awhile, I can see it before it hits... :biggrin2
Gotta go!
Click to expand...

My focus is on what the scripture actually say.


Until you can show from the scriptures where Giants were produced in the genealogy of Adam to Noah, then there is no biblical evidence that giants were produced from the union of men and daughters of men.

All "men" were wiped out in the flood.

So He destroyed all living things which were on the face of the ground: both man and cattle, creeping thing and bird of the air. They were destroyed from the earth. Only Noah and those who were with him in the ark remained alive. Genesis 7:23

The sons of God, however continued afterward ... The sons of God were angels.

That puts an end to any "nobles" theory.:sorry2

:readbible:bible


JLB
 
agua. said:
This is the interesting part Deborah especially since numbers 13:33 indicates large physical stature.
Click to expand...

That's true, I can't remember the King's name, Og maybe, I'm sure you and others know, anyway his bed was like 9 ft long and 5 ft wide? He was a big man, Anakite, I think. I'll being lazy and not checking this.
But because there were large people doesn't mean they weren't really people.
 
Deborah13 said:
That's true, I can't remember the King's name, Og maybe, I'm sure you and others know, anyway his bed was like 9 ft long and 5 ft wide? He was a big man, Anakite, I think. I'll being lazy and not checking this.
But because there were large people doesn't mean they weren't really people.
Click to expand...
gigantism. look that up. I posted that andre the giant whom I loved as a kid died from that disease.
 
Deborah13 said:
Yes, I do know about that but it very unusual and would not account for 5 brothers being born that way. Never mind the others.
Click to expand...
inbreeding? remember that they did that.look at the line of moses and aaron. mother and father were sibling if read that right.
 
Deborah13 said:
That's true, I can't remember the King's name, Og maybe, I'm sure you and others know, anyway his bed was like 9 ft long and 5 ft wide? He was a big man, Anakite, I think. I'll being lazy and not checking this.
But because there were large people doesn't mean they weren't really people.
Click to expand...

That's true but it does raise the question as to why the Nephilim were so physically bigger when Gen 6 indicates it was the result of sons of God + daughters of men.

Here's Oggy

Deu 3:11 For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold, his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.
 
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