No conditions to be reconciled !

[OzSpen]

You brought up Rom 3:23 ! Why ? It had no bearing on 2 Cor 5:19 or Rom 5:10!

Do you believe ALL refers to everyone in the world, according to Rom 3:23 (ESV)?

 

[beloved57]

You have not written that you accept that people need to 'receive reconciliation' to be redeemed.

I most definitely believe in the content of Rom 5:10 (ESV) as long as it is understood in the light of its being combined with Rom 5:10-11 (ESV), i.e. people need to have 'received reconciliation' to be saved. They are not forced to accept your brand of reconciliation: SAVED BY SOVEREIGN GRACE. The Bible's view from Rom 5:10-11 (ESV) is that reconciliation comes to any person who has 'received reconciliation'. This does NOT mean that a person has 'been forced to receive reconciliation'.

Oz

Where did I say anything about being forced to do something ? Those who received the reconciliation in vs 11 are said to have been reconciled to God by Christ death while they were enemies in vs 10! Do you believe that or not?

 

[beloved57]

Do you believe ALL refers to everyone in the world, according to Rom 3:23 (ESV)?

Now you are evading again. What does that have to do with Rom 5:10, that some people were reconciled to God while being enemies by Christ death Rom 5:10 and others are not, while being enemies they are under Gods Wrath and Condemnation Jn 3:18,36! Stop evading what the scripture teaches!

 

[beloved57]

Oz

You have not written that you accept that people need to 'receive reconciliation' to be redeemed.

Of course I have not written that, what scripture says that ? It's your responsibility to show the scripture that says that since you brought it up!

 

[beloved57]

ozpen

I most definitely believe in the content of Rom 5:10 (ESV) as long as it is understood in the light of its being combined with Rom 5:10-11 (ESV), i.e. people need to have 'received reconciliation' to be saved.

Now you are adding to both Rom 5:10-11 neither verse says anything about people need to have received reconciliation to be saved !

Rom 5:10 says people are reconciled to God[by Christs death] while they are enemies/unbelievers Rom 5:10 !

Rom 5:11 said they received the atonement. That other stuff you added to Gods word !

 

[OzSpen]

Where did I say anything about being forced to do something ? Those who received the reconciliation in vs 11 are said to have been reconciled to God by Christ death while they were enemies in vs 10! Do you believe that or not?

You have had in your footer: SAVED BY SOVEREIGN GRACE. I happen to know what that means from a Calvinistic perspective and TULIP. You can't pull my leg.

All people who are reconciled to God by Christ were at the point of being enemies when they were drawn to Christ. ALL people from the time of the passion-resurrection. But that drawing (John 6:44 ESV) is not by SOVEREIGN grace but by RESISTIBLE grace. How do I know? John 12:32 (ESV) confirms it when Jesus said: 'And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself'. We know that ALL people did not come to Him even though he was drawing ALL. So SOME chose to resist his drawing power.

I know you won't agree with this perspective because of your presupposition of irresistible sovereign grace.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

ozpen


Now you are adding to both Rom 5:10-11 neither verse says anything about people need to have received reconciliation to be saved !

Rom 5:10 says people are reconciled to God[by Christs death] while they are enemies/unbelievers Rom 5:10 !

Rom 5:11 said they received the atonement. That other stuff you added to Gods word !

The reconciled, redeemed, saved 'have now received reconciliation' according to Rom 5:11 (ESV). I have added NOTHING to Rom 5:10-11 (ESV). I have stated it exactly as it states that people have to RECEIVE reconciliation.

It is you who has added 'received the atonement' in Rom 5:11 (ESV). There is not a word about the atonement in either v. 10 or v. 11. It speaks of 'the death of his Son' (v. 10) but a theology of atonement is not mentioned. You are the one who has added that theology. Please learn to stick with the exact statements of what a verse says.

Oz

 

[beloved57]

You have had in your footer: SAVED BY SOVEREIGN GRACE. I happen to know what that means from a Calvinistic perspective and TULIP. You can't pull my leg.

All people who are reconciled to God by Christ were at the point of being enemies when they were drawn to Christ. ALL people from the time of the passion-resurrection. But that drawing (John 6:44 ESV) is not by SOVEREIGN grace but by RESISTIBLE grace. How do I know? John 12:32 (ESV) confirms it when Jesus said: 'And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself'. We know that ALL people did not come to Him even though he was drawing ALL. So SOME chose to resist his drawing power.

I know you won't agree with this perspective because or your presupposition of irresistible sovereign grace.

Oz

Where did I say that one is forced to do something? Show the quote or admit your dishonesty.

 

[beloved57]

The reconciled, redeemed, saved 'have now received reconciliation' according to Rom 5:11 (ESV). I have added NOTHING to Rom 5:10-11 (ESV). I have stated it exactly as it states that people have to RECEIVE reconciliation.

It is you who has added 'received the atonement' in Rom 5:11 (ESV). There is not a word about the atonement in either v. 10 or v. 11. It speaks of 'the death of his Son' (v. 10) but a theology of atonement is not mentioned. You are the one who has added that theology. Please learn to stick with the exact statements of what a verse says.

Oz

Verse 10 has a truth contained in it seperate from vs 11. If you don't believe that then you don't believe vs 10.

 

[beloved57]

Ozpen

I added NOTHING to Rom 5:10-11 (ESV).

I didn't say you added nothing to that, but you added the comment people need to have received reconciliation to be saved. Now neither vs 10 or 11 stated that, you added that comment.

 

[OzSpen]

Verse 10 has a truth contained in it seperate from vs 11. If you don't believe that then you don't believe vs 10.

You are not dealing with what I write.

 

[OzSpen]

Ozpen

I didn't say you added nothing to that, but you added the comment people need to have received reconciliation to be saved. Now neither vs 10 or 11 stated that, you added that comment.

Please go back to #145. You DID write: 'Now you are adding to both Rom 5:10-11'.

I'm not making it up.

Bye, Bye

 

[Mike]

This thread is trapped in a cycle of "Where did I say this?" responses, and it literally is making no progress. From this point forward, please do not waste posts asking where you said something or stating that you did not say that, unless you are prepared to say what you actually said.

This will go a long way in breaking the cycle and moving forward. If you have nothing more to say or ask than to simply make the point that you were misquoted, say nothing at all. That would be preferable to adding no content whatsoever.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Nobody denied Jn 3:17. However you fail to explain how some sinners that are enemies are reconciled to God while being so by Christs death Rom 5:10 and some sinners as enemies are under Gods wrath and condemnation Jn 3:18,36, what makes the difference ?

What?
After 14 pages and over 250 posts, you still don't have your answer?
That should tell you something.

 

[beloved57]

You are not dealing with what I write.

You have not addressed what I have posted. You are in my thread, and so I want to discuss what I began with.

 

[beloved57]

What?
After 14 pages and over 250 posts, you still don't have your answer?
That should tell you something.

Explain it then, for no one else has. Most of the pages are about things I have no interest in.

 

[GodsGrace]

Not all men are reconciled to God by Christ's death while being enemies, and thats simply because Christ's death was not for everyone without exception. Thats why some are reconciled to God while being enemies and unbelievers Rom 5:10 and why some are under Gods wrath and condemnation while being enemies and unbelievers Jn 3:18,36 !

There is simply only one explanation for this, Christ died for some who are enemies and unbelievers and did not die for others who are enemies and unbelievers !

The enemies and unbelievers that Christ died for are reconciled to God by it, did not perform any conditions whatsoever, because they were actively enemies and unbelievers, So Christ fulfilled all the conditions necessary for them to be reconciled to God while being enemies and unbelievers !

Above is your original post beloved57.

It has been answered numerous times.

Not only that, but we've answered every verse you've brought up - and this takes time, as you might know.

I think we've all given up.

Wondering

 

[beloved57]

Above is your original post beloved57.

It has been answered numerous times.

Not only that, but we've answered every verse you've brought up - and this takes time, as you might know.

I think we've all given up.

Wondering

I know what my post is and you have not solved the problem. There's those who Christ died for who are reconciled to God while being enemies,Rom 5:10 and others who are enemies are not reconciled but under Gods Wrath and Condemnation Jn 3:18,36.

 

[GodsGrace]

I know what my post is and you have not solved the problem. There's those who Christ died for who are reconciled to God while being enemies,Rom 5:10 and others who are enemies are not reconciled but under Gods Wrath and Condemnation Jn 3:18,36.

Beloved57
Please read my post no. 167 which refers specifically to
Romans 5:10 and
John 3:18
John 3:36.

You keep asking if we are competent enough to answer your problem.
Are YOU competent enough to read the above no. 167 and then come back here and
explain what you understand it to mean? Or, refute what I posted?

Otherwise, I will not be responding anymore.

Wondering

 

[beloved57]

Beloved57
Please read my post no. 167 which refers specifically to
Romans 5:10 and
John 3:18
John 3:36.

You keep asking if we are competent enough to answer your problem.
Are YOU competent enough to read the above no. 167 and then come back here and
explain what you understand it to mean? Or, refute what I posted?

Otherwise, I will not be responding anymore.

Wondering

You have not solved the problem. You have some people who are enemies and unbelievers that are reconciled to God, and some enemies and unbelievers that are under Gods Wrath and Condemnation. You have not solved that. Why are some reconciled to God while being enemies and some are not ?