No Millenium on Earth

[researcher]

Saints taken to heaven

Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

1Th 4:17 then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice,... for the marriage of the Lamb is come...

Millennium reign

Rev 20:4 and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Bride comes back to earth

Rev 21:9 ... and he spake with me, saying, Come hither, I will show thee the bride, the wife of the Lamb.
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the Spirit... and showed me the holy city Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,


Rev 19 - Marriage of the Lamb, Saints (Bride) taken to heaven
Rev 20 - Millennium, life on earth goes on
Rev 21 - Saints come back down from heaven


If the saints come down from heaven after a millennium, then, they weren't on earth.

P.S. Resurrected saints will be like angels (Luk 20:36), and, angels can't die or be hurt, thus, no need to take them off of the earth even if they were ruling on earth and a nuclear war or anything like that happened. They can't die, so, they wouldn't be hurt. They would just sit right through it.

 

[XTruth]

The bride of Rev.21 is the Lamb's wife, which is the holy city.

Rev.21:2, 9-10
2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
9And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

You missed the middle of Rev.19 when the saints come back w/ Christ to rule w/ Him for 1,000 years.

Rev.19:11-16
11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

Rapture = Before the 7 Yr Trib. When He comes back FOR the saints (1 Cor.15:23, 51-54; Jn.14:1-3; Lk.21:34-36; 2 Cor.5:1-8; Eph.5:27; Phil.3:11, 20-21; 1 Thes.2:19; 3:13; 4:13-17; 5:9, 23; 2 Thes.2:1, 7; Col.3:4; Jas.5:7-8; 1 Jn.2:28; 3:2; 1 Pt.5:4; Rev.4:1).

His Coming BACK for the Millennial Reign = 7 yrs after Rapture when He comes to earth WITH the saints (Isa.63:1-6; Dan.2:44-45; 7:13-14, 18, 27; Joel 3; Zech.14:1-5, 9 16-21; Mat.24:29-31; 25:31-46; 2 Thes.1:7-10; 2:8; Jude 14-15; Rev.1:7; 19:11-16; 20:1-3).

Millenial Reign with the saints and then God will set His throne on earth and the wife of the Lamb forever. Interesting belief though; never heard that one yet.

 

[researcher]

You missed the middle of Rev.19 when the saints come back w/ Christ to rule w/ Him for 1,000 years.

And the scripture that says they are on earth?

I see the part where Jesus kills people with the word of God (the sword).

At any rate, we'll need a verse (or more) of them landing, and, staying on earth.

1Th 4:17 then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Hmmm, no earth landing there.

 

[researcher]

The bride of Rev.21 is the Lamb's wife, which is the holy city.

Yes, the city is the bride. Which means it's not a literal city, because, we're the bride.

Rev 19:7 ... and his wife hath made herself ready.

 

[Sinthesis]

The bride of Rev.21 is the Lamb's wife, which is the holy city.

Yes, the city is the bride. Which means it's not a literal city, because, we're the bride.

Rev 19:7 ... and his wife hath made herself ready.

We're the Bride, replacing the Harlot.

 

[researcher]

The bride of Rev.21 is the Lamb's wife, which is the holy city.

Yes, the city is the bride. Which means it's not a literal city, because, we're the bride.

Rev 19:7 ... and his wife hath made herself ready.

We're the Bride, replacing the Harlot.

Good point.

 

[XTruth]

And the scripture that says they are on earth?

Here are some Second Coming verses (the end of the 7 yr Trib. periob and the beginning of the Millennium)
Joel 3:13-21 (This is the same timing as Mat.24:29-31. You will see that Christ will come to earth and dwell, not stay in the clouds or go back to heaven)
13Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.
14Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
15The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
16The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
17So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain (Also Eze.48:30-35; Zech.14:16-21): then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.
18And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth out of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim.
19Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land.
20But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation.
21For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the LORD dwelleth in Zion.
Zech.14:1-5 (Physically on earth - vs.4)
1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
Lk.1:32-33
32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: (((which is on earth)))
33And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Jude 14-15
14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Rev.11:15
15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. (((This world...earth, which Jesus shall rule with the saints here on earth...Rev.19:11-20-10)))
Rev.20:4-6
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (((These spoken of who are ruling w/ Christ were killed during the 7 year Tribulation period and yet are alive and ruling on earth w/ Christ w/ all those who came back w/ Him (Joel 3; Zech.14:1-5; Rev.19:11-16) at the end of the Tribulation period)))

1Th 4:17 then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Hmmm, no earth landing there.

1 Thes.4:13-17
"13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
This is the manner and the timing of the Rapture, which as you can see by the purple writing, that those who are in heaven will return to earth w/ Christ in order to take part in the resurrection of the bodies of the righteous into their eternally glorified uncorrupted and immortal bodies. Then, those who are alive and worthy to escape the 7 yr Tribulation (Lk.21:36) will be resurrected and glorified w/ them (1 THES.4:17). Then, all of them are taken to heaven for 7 yrs. This is the timing of the judgment seat of Christ (1 Cor.3:12-15) and the marriage supper of the Lamb (Rev.19:7-9). Then, all the saints and angels which make up the armies of the Lord will all come to earth for the beginning of the Millennium (Rev.19:11-20:6).

 

[researcher]

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Jesus said he was leaving the earth to prepare a place for them, then, he would come back and get them. He wouldn't prepare a place in heaven if they were going to be on earth.

2Co 5:1 For we know that if the earthly house of our tabernacle be dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens.

Heaven, not earth.

Mat 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon the earth, where moth and rust consume, and where thieves break through and steal:
Mat 6:20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth consume, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

The kingdom is in us. It is not a visible kingdom. Christ doesn't have to be here to rule, he is inside of us.
Luk 17:21 neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you.

Joh 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world

Jesus standing on the mount of olives doesn't mean he is staying, or that he is visible. Satan had a throne on earth, and no one saw him
Rev 2:13 I know where thou dwellest, even where Satan's throne is;

The bride comes down after the millennium Rev 21:9-10
And the nations that are on earth then walk in its light
Rev 21:24 And the nations shall walk amidst the light thereof: and the kings of the earth bring their glory into it.

Zec 14:8, Eze 47:5 & 12 is after the millennium. Notice the living waters (the holy Spirit) & the trees with fruit for healing. Rev 22:1-2 The tree of life and the branches. Jesus is the tree of life, we are the branches - Joh 15:5

Not everything is literal in the descriptions of Christ ruling on earth in the OT and Revelation. Just like there are no literal dragons, 7 headed monsters, giant prostitutes or talking lambs.

 

[sheshisown]

The Millenial Reign of Jesus Christ!

How about the evidence of the Millienium in Revelation 20?

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

O-Kay~ Here are the actual thousand years of the Lord's saints who reign with Christ. :yes

But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Once again those who have taken part in the FIRST resurrection (the rapture prior to the tribulation) will reign with Him a thousand years. :D

Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.

It should be quite obvious that Satan decieves the nations which are in the four corners of the earth... in other words - from one end of the earth to the other. :yes Also, Magog is Russia today, why would God speak of nations that actually exist on earth as being in some other place?

They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

See, God will destroy his enemies who are surrounding His saints... and THE BELOVED CITY... that's Jerusalem... God's eye has always been watching over this city. it is a real physical place here, its on earth. :nod

The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

So what sea is this? An un-earthly sea? actually it seems to be that Hades is a physical place too~ or maybe under the earth? Of course the Hades idea is not confirmed in scripture so that is only speculation.

Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Of course you may choose to spiritualise the word of God... but that can lead to unbelief. There are many many churches today that have done this with the entire account of the end times. :help Now they no longer look for the appearing of their great God and Savior, Jesus Christ! :verysad

bonnie

 

[researcher]

Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded... And they lived

What does a soul look like? :o

 

[sheshisown]

Can you take the head off a soul? No~ but you CAN take the head off a man who has a soul within him... :yes

 

[researcher]

They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city.

Luk 20:36 for neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are sons of God..

2Sa 24:16 And when the angel stretched out his hand toward Jerusalem to destroy it, Jehovah repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough; now stay thy hand.

2Ki 19:35 And it happened in that night, that the Angel of Jehovah went out and struck a hundred and eighty five thousand in the camp of Assyria; and they rose up early in the morning, and behold, all of them were dead bodies.

It would be a funny thing, to see armies of men try and surround a camp of angels. :P :P :P
Heck, it would be funny to see them try and surround just one, let alone hundreds of millions!

 

[researcher]

actually it seems to be that Hades is a physical place too~ or maybe under the earth?

Rev 20:14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire

Or, death and Hades could be spirits.

Mat 4:16 The people that sat in darkness Saw a great light, And to them that sat in the region and shadow of death, To them did light spring up.

1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be abolished is death.

1Jn 3:14 We know that we have passed out of death into life

In Christ, in the evil one, spirit of life, spirit of death. etc etc. Dunno! :D

 

[sheshisown]

Hey Researcher~

Do you recognise this is taking the scripture out of context and saying what you think about it? :o

So the LORD sent a plague upon Israel from the morning till the appointed time. From Dan to Beersheba seventy thousand men of the people died. And when the angel stretched out His hand over Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD relented from the destruction, and said to the angel who was destroying the people, "It is enough; now restrain your hand." And the angel of the LORD was by the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite.

You left off the last sentence in the verse...

In the samuel passage you used; David chose the three days of plague on the people of Jerusalem instead of the other two options, Israel would either be at the mercy of neighbors (as in the famine) or attacked by enemies. David knew that God is far more merciful and gracious than man is so He chose God's own hand of punishment through the angel. How does this passage prove that angels surrounding Jerusalem would keep an army from coming up to surround it?

Are you saying you do not believe what the word is saying?

They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

Does it help if the english is plainer? This not my preferred version, but anything to help a little sound reasoning.

And I saw them as they went up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded God's people and the beloved city. But fire from heaven came down on the attacking armies and consumed them. NLT

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Or, death and Hades could be spirits.

HUH? Boy that doesn't even come close to an alligory or a figure of speech. Must be some kind of weird symbolism idea.

It cannot be anything we choose it to be, the bible, well God, tells us what it is, if we do not believe what God has said... that is another matter altogether.

I cannot see searching scripture with a person who has decided what it means without letting the word speak for itself. sorry.

May our Lord guide your research... bonnie

 

[researcher]

Do you recognise this is taking the scripture out of context and saying what you think about it?

That was showing two different examples, not putting the two together as if they were the same event. The angel could have destroyed Jerusalem, but didn't. The other angel killed 185,000 guys.

As for death and hades being spirits, how else are they going to be thrown into the lake of fire?
Can you throw an idea in a a lake of fire?

But, that was only a question. I have no idea if death and hades are spirits, or, whatever.

 

[researcher]

I cannot see searching scripture with a person who has decided what it means without letting the word speak for itself. sorry.

You should have read the last word on my post. It was "Dunno." Which meant, I don't know.

 

[sheshisown]

Researcher~

As for death and hades being spirits, how else are they going to be thrown into the lake of fire? Can you throw an idea in a a lake of fire?

But, that was only a question. I have no idea if death and hades are spirits, or, whatever.

If you don't know... why don't you simply accept that God does, and says what He menas? After all if anyone can throw an idea in the Lake of Fire~ it is God.

Why does everything in God's eternal word have to make sense to you? You know of course we have only finite understanding... While the Lord's knowldege is limitless! :D

Besides, death is an actual aging process that is physical in our bodies. It is a destroyer of cells and brings an end to life. God is Life. God hates death, it is at least as wicked as Satan. Both will go to the Lake of Fire. And Hades could very likely be a physical place.

Again, since you do not know... why question what God has said about it? Faith believes what it cannot yet see. Simply trust what God has said. We trust the God Who retains the knowledge of our universe, and will one day (according to His own promise) create a new heaven and a new earth... :nod

When we question in earnest, we are seeking an answer that may not agree with our conceptions or desires. We are looking for whatever God says it is, or is not.
When I dunno, I seek HIS answers, not my own guesses. ...Yet...He does not always answer us. That's okay too, He is God ... we are not. That's a GOOD thing too!

Do you accept that God created earth and us and everything He lists in the Genesis account? If so~ then why can't He create a new heaven and a new earth? Why can't He allow an army to surround His people on earth... so He can reveal His power to protect them by raining fire down on their enemies? What's so hard to believe in that?

None of this is difficult for Him.

The reverance of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom... bonnie :shades

 

[researcher]

Do you accept that God created earth and us and everything He lists in the Genesis account? If so~ then why can't He create a new heaven and a new earth? Why can't He allow an army to surround His people on earth... so He can reveal His power to protect them by raining fire down on their enemies? What's so hard to believe in that?

Yes, and, He can.

I think the point of the OP might be misunderstood. I believe that during the millennium the saints on earth will be people, not resurrected saints. I believe the resurrected saints will be in heaven, and come down afterwards. Resurrected saints will be like Jesus (1Jn 3:2,Mat 22:30), and equal to the angels (Luk 20:36). Resurrected saints will see Jesus as he is, and, be exactly like what he is (1Jn 3:2 ), so at that point there would be no need for them to see God's power. They will be in the midst of it in heaven, and, will be like God himself. For human beings on earth, yes, God will reveal his power by fire etc.

Jesus began his reign over heaven and earth quite awhile ago -
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came to them and spake unto them, saying, All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth.

Which is why I believe the resurrected saints will be ruling from heaven during the millennium, and, the saints on earth will be people, like me and you. If Jesus was given all authority over heaven and earth 2000 years ago, then, it means, he is already ruling. But he's doing it from heaven.

As for believing exactly what Revelation says, much of it is symbolic, thus it can't be taken literally. Some people say the new earth will only be a retooled old earth -

Ecc 1:4 One generation goeth, and another generation cometh; but the earth abideth for ever.

Of course, that's only one verse, not enough to build a doctrine out of. But still, it is the word.

 

[Sinthesis]

Jesus began his reign over heaven and earth quite awhile ago -
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came to them and spake unto them, saying, All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth.

I believe we are currently in the millennium, here on earth, with Him in our hearts.

 

[researcher]

Jesus began his reign over heaven and earth quite awhile ago -
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came to them and spake unto them, saying, All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth.

I believe we are currently in the millennium, here on earth, with Him in our hearts.

100%