The size and nature of the waves during the deluge dictates the strength of the ark.
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[__ Science __ ] Noah’s Ark: The Problem of Violent Waves
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Barbarian
Member
The problem is not the strength of the box, but the flexing of very large wooden ships. There's an effective limit to how big a wooden vessel can be:
Wyoming was an American wooden six-masted schooner built and completed in 1909 by the firm of Percy & Small in Bath, Maine.[1] With a length of 450 ft (140 m) from jib-boom tip to spanker boom tip, Wyoming was the largest known wooden ship ever built.[4]
Because of its extreme length and wood construction, Wyoming tended to flex in heavy seas, which would cause the long planks to twist and buckle, thereby allowing sea water to intrude into the hold. Wyoming had to use pumps to keep its hold relatively free of water. In March 1924, it foundered in heavy seas and sank with the loss of all hands.
en.wikipedia.org
This is one of the main reasons that no one will ever build an Ark and put it to sea to test it.
Wyoming was an American wooden six-masted schooner built and completed in 1909 by the firm of Percy & Small in Bath, Maine.[1] With a length of 450 ft (140 m) from jib-boom tip to spanker boom tip, Wyoming was the largest known wooden ship ever built.[4]
Because of its extreme length and wood construction, Wyoming tended to flex in heavy seas, which would cause the long planks to twist and buckle, thereby allowing sea water to intrude into the hold. Wyoming had to use pumps to keep its hold relatively free of water. In March 1924, it foundered in heavy seas and sank with the loss of all hands.
Wyoming (schooner) - Wikipedia
This is one of the main reasons that no one will ever build an Ark and put it to sea to test it.
Here's a bigger problem...The problem is not the strength of the box, but the flexing of very large wooden ships. There's an effective limit to how big a wooden vessel can be:
Wyoming was an American wooden six-masted schooner built and completed in 1909 by the firm of Percy & Small in Bath, Maine.[1] With a length of 450 ft (140 m) from jib-boom tip to spanker boom tip, Wyoming was the largest known wooden ship ever built.[4]
Because of its extreme length and wood construction, Wyoming tended to flex in heavy seas, which would cause the long planks to twist and buckle, thereby allowing sea water to intrude into the hold. Wyoming had to use pumps to keep its hold relatively free of water. In March 1924, it foundered in heavy seas and sank with the loss of all hands.
Wyoming (schooner) - Wikipedia
This is one of the main reasons that no one will ever build an Ark and put it to sea to test it.
Ice floats
The polar ice didn't foat away
Barbarian
Member
Hadn't thought about that one. Nice catch.
A ship with no propulsion can't turn into the wind.The problem is not the strength of the box, but the flexing of very large wooden ships. There's an effective limit to how big a wooden vessel can be:
Wyoming was an American wooden six-masted schooner built and completed in 1909 by the firm of Percy & Small in Bath, Maine.[1] With a length of 450 ft (140 m) from jib-boom tip to spanker boom tip, Wyoming was the largest known wooden ship ever built.[4]
Because of its extreme length and wood construction, Wyoming tended to flex in heavy seas, which would cause the long planks to twist and buckle, thereby allowing sea water to intrude into the hold. Wyoming had to use pumps to keep its hold relatively free of water. In March 1924, it foundered in heavy seas and sank with the loss of all hands.
Wyoming (schooner) - Wikipedia
This is one of the main reasons that no one will ever build an Ark and put it to sea to test it.
In heavy seas it would be rolled over.
The problem is not the strength of the box, but the flexing of very large wooden ships. There's an effective limit to how big a wooden vessel can be:
Wyoming was an American wooden six-masted schooner built and completed in 1909 by the firm of Percy & Small in Bath, Maine.[1] With a length of 450 ft (140 m) from jib-boom tip to spanker boom tip, Wyoming was the largest known wooden ship ever built.[4]
Because of its extreme length and wood construction, Wyoming tended to flex in heavy seas, which would cause the long planks to twist and buckle, thereby allowing sea water to intrude into the hold. Wyoming had to use pumps to keep its hold relatively free of water. In March 1924, it foundered in heavy seas and sank with the loss of all hands.
Wyoming (schooner) - Wikipedia
The fact God promised to never send another Global Flood (He's keeping it) is one of the main reasons that no one will ever build an Ark and put it to sea to test it.
The Ark was built very different from Wyoming.
God gave Noah the plans for the Ark. contrast that to fallible men made and thought up the ideas for Wyoming.
See the Biblical dimensions of it and AiG site on it.
The problem is not the strength of the box, but the flexing of very large wooden ships. There's an effective limit to how big a wooden vessel can be:
Wyoming was an American wooden six-masted schooner built and completed in 1909 by the firm of Percy & Small in Bath, Maine.[1] With a length of 450 ft (140 m) from jib-boom tip to spanker boom tip, Wyoming was the largest known wooden ship ever built.[4]
Because of its extreme length and wood construction, Wyoming tended to flex in heavy seas, which would cause the long planks to twist and buckle, thereby allowing sea water to intrude into the hold. Wyoming had to use pumps to keep its hold relatively free of water. In March 1924, it foundered in heavy seas and sank with the loss of all hands.
Wyoming (schooner) - Wikipedia
This is one of the main reasons that no one will ever build an Ark and put it to sea to test it.
Please read the articles in Answers in genesis about the Ark.
This issue has been raised before and answered.
A sailing ship is stressed by the forces working on the masts, causing as you point out movement in the Hull.
A vessel without masts would not suffer from those stresses and movements.
It would be affected by the wind and waves but nowhere near as much.
It is not unreasonable to assume that leaks from the working of the Hull cou.d simply be gathered I a bilge and pumped out.
Was there polar ice, if there was how did it survive the action of the flood?
Is there a risk from drifting ice for a drifting vessel?
Jumping to your comment about the Ark capsizing?
2 points.
The assessment by naval ship architects showed that even broadside on to the waves the righting movem3nt of the Ark would prevent it capsizing.
And aig have made an assumption that the Ark would not have been a rectangular box but built with projections to catch the wind and induce drag so it would turn into the wind and not risk being rolled over by large waves.
There is no evidence for these, just a reasonable assumption that God would know that something like this would ensure the Ark survived.
The polar ice has been there for hundreds of
thousands of years.
Ice floats.
But the ice is still there.
Is that not impossible?
Barbarian
Member
No, this is false. The stress comes from wave action on the hull.
Hogging is the stress a ship's hull or keel experiences that causes the center or the keel to bend upward. Sagging is the stress a ship's hull or keel is placed under when a wave is the same length as the ship and the ship is in the trough of two waves. This causes the middle of the ship to bend down slightly, and depending on the level of bend, may cause the hull to snap or crack.
Hogging and sagging - Wikipedia
Very large wooden vessels have flexed so much that massive leaking resulted.
You are right of course that God could design
anything he likes, and make it work.
Barbarian
Member
It is not unreasonable to assume that leaks from the working of the Hull cou.d simply be gathered I a bilge and pumped out.
Appropriately enough, the Wyoming was designed as a coal-carrying schooner. At full capacity, she could carry more than 6,000 tons of coal, doing the work of several smaller schooners. This made the ship very profitable.
But that capacity and profitability came at a cost. The ship sagged when fully loaded with cargo and hogged when empty.
The constant downward and upward bending was problematic. Percy and Small built metal cross-bracing on her hull, which mitigated rather than solved the problem. In heavy seas, the wood twisted and buckled, allowing water to end the hold.
The Wyoming has roughly the same dimensions as Noah’s Ark (which the Bible says was 440 feet long) but it was also a testament to the limits of building ships that size out of wood.
Simply put, that’s because “wood bends,” Trumbull said.
The Wyoming had to be constantly pumped out by steam-powered bilge pumps. Ultimately, the ship, weakened by constant bowing and hogging in waves, broke and foundered in a storm.
How many humans would it take to match several steam-powered bilge pumps?
Appropriately enough, the Wyoming was designed as a coal-carrying schooner. At full capacity, she could carry more than 6,000 tons of coal, doing the work of several smaller schooners. This made the ship very profitable.
But that capacity and profitability came at a cost. The ship sagged when fully loaded with cargo and hogged when empty.
The constant downward and upward bending was problematic. Percy and Small built metal cross-bracing on her hull, which mitigated rather than solved the problem. In heavy seas, the wood twisted and buckled, allowing water to end the hold.
The Wyoming has roughly the same dimensions as Noah’s Ark (which the Bible says was 440 feet long) but it was also a testament to the limits of building ships that size out of wood.
Simply put, that’s because “wood bends,” Trumbull said.
The Wyoming had to be constantly pumped out by steam-powered bilge pumps. Ultimately, the ship, weakened by constant bowing and hogging in waves, broke and foundered in a storm.
How many humans would it take to match several steam-powered bilge pumps?
Barbarian
Member
No need for "design"; He could merely have a miraculous suspension of nature around the Ark and save it from any calamity. But if one gets to call in non-scriptural miracles to cover gaps in one's story, then all stories are equally plausible.
Barbarian
Member
There's a more practical reason, isn't there? I mean, if AIG could pull that off, that would shut up all the critics of his interpretation, wouldn't it?
But for the reasons we're discussing, That project would fail. And Ken Ham knows it. So he's not going to back his talk up with a demonstration.
Perhaps the AiG people failed to consultNo, this is false. The stress comes from wave action on the hull.
Hogging is the stress a ship's hull or keel experiences that causes the center or the keel to bend upward. Sagging is the stress a ship's hull or keel is placed under when a wave is the same length as the ship and the ship is in the trough of two waves. This causes the middle of the ship to bend down slightly, and depending on the level of bend, may cause the hull to snap or crack.
Hogging and sagging - Wikipedia
Very large wooden vessels have flexed so much that massive leaking resulted.
anyone knowledgeable about ship condtruction.
I've seen the term " magic* realism" used to refer to a literary style that blends the mundane and the
supernatural in a way very like the flood story.
* NOT implying that God's work is equated to some tawdry sort of "magic".
If you can demonstrate that millions of years are real and not just blind assumptions, that should cause the YEC position to not exist, wouldn't it?
As Earth continues existing, there will always be those in opposition to Facts, especially if they come from the Bible. Like the Noahs (gloal ;) )Flood truth.
Any project to observe "millions of years" would fail. I think we know why. No one can back their "this object is millions of years old" with a demonstration.
meanwhile, Noah's Ark demonstration is in the Bible. You dont have such an advantage because you like to think its "allegory".
Chinese language has "6 person boat". Mabye noah's ark is real? Oh well, i guess language itself must be allegory too! Anything for Darwinism. Lol
Why yes there are many in denial of facts.
There's even those who say you cannot determine a trees age by counting rings.
The Flood account is the original, and fakes and ripoffs came after that.
what you describe sounds like many biological evolution (of the K2K variety, i.e. bird-dino) and Cosmic evo scenarioes.
People regularly speculate where X COULD HAVE come from, what ancestor X animal COULD HAVE had. theres too much guesswork and illogical improbable scenarios that leave out many factors.
The Bible does not leave us in the dark like the Allegory side likes to think.
Bonus Fun fact: Neanderthals were also men, not "evolutionary ancestors that came from the monkey's ancestors". : https://crev.info/2024/08/neanderthals-r-us/
Just looked your thing up -
Be a Tree Ring Detective - Discover Your World
Be a Tree Ring Detective - Discover Your World
oceanservice.noaa.gov
What do you think of this?
what do you mean by design and why do you put it in quotes?