Noah's ark?

[Gabbylittleangel]

I'm sorry that you have such an angry god. :roll: But, going along with that thought, . . .

I am glad that God gets angry with wicked people. I live in a very wicked world. He delivers me. He protects me. Now and then a bad guy repents and gets saved. He promises to fight the battles and take vengeance on my behalf.

God DID have foreknowledge of what was going to happen. How can omniscience be angry when it saw it coming? What was the point of "flooding the entire world" when obviously it had no effect on the outcome of man's "evilness"?

The point? He found a man and his family that was worth saving. Otherwise, He might have destroyed the whole thing.

How can omniscience be angry when it saw it coming?

Yep. He saw it coming. He let it happen. He lets the world continue in it's wickedness cause He saw that if He did, that He would reach me. And He might see that someday Orion will take that step into eternal life.

What was the point of "flooding the entire world" when obviously it had no effect on the outcome of man's "evilness"? Honestly, what WAS the point in that? Especially when VERY soon, the world would, once again, have Budhists in China, and Ra worshippers in Egypt!

Orion, for the world to be so wicked that God saw fit to flood it, perhaps it was more wicked than you imagine. man's evilness (I like your word) may have been beyond our imagination.
The fact is that in the entire world, only eight people believed God. The outcome seems to be that there are a few more than eight believers on the face of the planet today.

Orion, I am still praying for ya!

 

[rkc]

The Pangea supercontinent was a couple hundred million years ago. If you want to place the flood in that time period, then you have my support.

They separated WELL before species began taking up dominence in certain parts of the globe. This is why the "after the flood land bridges" theory is complete bunk, the fact that Australia has no indiginous placental animals, but many forms of marsupials is evidence of this.

WHAT' 100 Million Years Ago, the earth is nowhere near that age, you better try 6000 to 10,000 years old.

What!??, are you kidding me?, so there were no dinosouars?....this is crazy

 

[Lewis]

Take a look at some these sites and then come back and talk to me.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/2.asp

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/dinos.shtml

 

[rkc]

Take a look at some these sites and then come back and talk to me.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/2.asp

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/dinos.shtml

That dosn't make any sense, how come nobody else in history recorded the dinosouars walking the earth at the same time, in the link you sent they say that some of the dino's were taken onto the ark, that makes it realy unbelivable, some dinos were over 100 feet long, some as tall as 65 feet, weighing 40-200 tones, 40,000 pounds ea. where did they fit on a 400 foot long wooden boat?

 

[Imagican]

Ok, enough is enough. The guy asked a 'serious' question.

Here's is what I would like ONE believer in a ten thousand year old
Earth to do. It's REAL simple REALLY. I would like ONE scripture that states ANYTHING about the age of the Earth. OR 1000 pieces of scripture. Which ever you choose. The TRUTH is, we have NO positive proof of the precise age of the Earth.

Now, what we do have is the combined learning of thousands of years of study of the Earth and it's contents. That the churches have stated that the Earth is ten thousand years means NO MORE than them stating that the Earth is the CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE. NO ONE belives THAT ONE anymore, DO THEY?

So, what that leaves are a bunch of 'die hards' unwilling to accept what MAN has been teaching since BEFORE he understood ANYTHING. Even what was offered IN THE WORD was MOSTLY misunderstood at the time it was written.

I am willing to wager that the answer that I will receive is NOTHING more than the geneology of Adam and Eve, their respective ages and such, combining into a mere 10,000 years. Rediculous. Carbon dating may NOT be perfect, but we KNOW enough about radioactive elements to offer a 'reasonably' accurate estimation MOST of the time. Those opposed to the truth will ALWAYS point out that 'carbon dating CAN be wrong. Now, are they willing to admit that it can EVER be right? Doubful, for to do so would FORCE them to change the 'fairy tale' that they have been taught and have lived by ever since, (or before), they ever picked up a Bible.

God created in HIS time. This was explained to people FIVE THOUSAND years ago who knew NOTHING about the MEANS of His creation. Yet there are those today that will 'act' like they are as limited in understanding as those that existed FIVE THOUSAND years ago.

Before you start your 'bashing' the imagican again, without all the inuendo and name calling and 'you know, I think your Satan's son' stuff, it's REAL simple to disprove what I have offered. Let us have ONE piece of evidence that the Earth is LESS THAN A BILLION YEARS OLD. Just ONE piece of evidence from the Word and I will apologize for wasting anyones time with my REDICULOUS assumptions.

The problem WILL be; there is NOT ONE. So, I guess I have simply set myself up to be the 'one man show' again. Oh well. I can think of quite a few 'one man shows' that I JUST WISH I were capable of filling the shoes of......... Get it? Probably not, but that doesn't 'change' the 'truth'.

MEC

 

[Imagican]

rk,

Don't let ANYONE test your faith with such trival insistances. Seek your answers from above, for men will inevitably lead you 'their way'. And that's not always the way you would like to travel.

This thread has taken on a 'history and evolution' type flavor that probably deserves to be relocated in a 'different' category, but so long as it continues.........

The limted view of the churches CERTAINLY places God in a 'box' of their limited understanding. Unwilling to admit their MISTAKES makes them ALL THE MORE unreliable. For those that 'truly' seek knowledge OF THE TRUTH, they must be willing to 'accept it' when it's offered. Some will NEVER admit that they have been wrong for it reduces their credibility OVERALL. Oh well, so much for the 'perfect' people. They are a 'breed apart' from those that I belong.

Mutz, I am always happy to amuse you, my brother. It's gets even better I promise. And I have yet to become immune to your humor as well. Most don't seem to appreciate it as much as I, but then who's to account for 'taste' eh?

Cheerio, or it that G'day mate?,

MEC

 

[Lewis]

Take a look at some these sites and then come back and talk to me.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/2.asp

http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/dinos.shtml

That dosn't make any sense, how come nobody else in history recorded the dinosouars walking the earth at the same time, in the link you sent they say that some of the dino's were taken onto the ark, that makes it realy unbelivable, some dinos were over 100 feet long, some as tall as 65 feet, weighing 40-200 tones, 40,000 pounds ea. where did they fit on a 400 foot long wooden boat?

Yeah they walked along side man, foot prints with man and theirs have been found. And the ones that God wanted on the Ark he did. After the fall is when animals started to get vicious, before then, there was no meat eating going on. And the word dinosaur means terrible lizard. Not all of them were giants. And I think that God let them go after the fall because they would become to harmful for man. Oh before I forget Job 40th chapter talks about them. The KJV is best to read about them, because most other versions translate the word behemoth to other things which is inaccurate.
tanniyn (dragon) before 1400 BC dinosaur 1841 AD
behemoth before 1400 BC brachiosaurus 1903 AD
Leviathan before 1400 BC kronosaurus 1901 AD
And they did not start to call them dinosaurs until 1841
And as I said before fossils are caused by rapid burial, and no more fossils have been made since. And what caused rapid burial ? The flood.
I started a topic on this in the, Christianity & Science thread.

 

[Guest]

I am glad that God gets angry with wicked people. I live in a very wicked world. He delivers me. He protects me. Now and then a bad guy repents and gets saved. He promises to fight the battles and take vengeance on my behalf.

The point? He found a man and his family that was worth saving. Otherwise, He might have destroyed the whole thing.

But as far as the planet is concerned, it's like "killing the patient to cure the disease. Man MAY have that evil (we only have the word of one small sentence in the Bible as "proof"), but the rest of the planet cannot be affected by the "sins of man". An elephant can't sin, but is created to act on the instincts that God created it with! Same goes for every other form of animal on the planet.

Yep. He saw it coming. He let it happen. He lets the world continue in it's wickedness cause He saw that if He did, that He would reach me. And He might see that someday Orion will take that step into eternal life.

But for the sake of a select few, the majority will suffer an eternity in Hell. :-?

Orion, for the world to be so wicked that God saw fit to flood it, perhaps it was more wicked than you imagine. man's evilness (I like your word) may have been beyond our imagination.

Hmmmmm, yet God allows Satan (who is supposedly much more evil than man, and his 1/3 of angels) to continue to exist even until this day. :-?

The fact is that in the entire world, only eight people believed God. The outcome seems to be that there are a few more than eight believers on the face of the planet today.

Probably, in terms of "per capita", were probably not much better off today then at that time, realizing that the total population of the planet at that time wouldn't have been VERY many.

Orion, I am still praying for ya!

Thanks. I agree.

 

[Guest]

Uh, the creature in Job can be nothing other than the fabled "fire breathing dragon". A product of mythology straight from the Pagan religions.

 

[Lewis]

Uh, the creature in Job can be nothing other than the fabled "fire breathing dragon". A product of mythology straight from the Pagan religions.

Butters would say the same thing. :-D

 

[Georges]

Uh, the creature in Job can be nothing other than the fabled "fire breathing dragon". A product of mythology straight from the Pagan religions.

Wrong there Orion....

The beast of Job 40 is none other that the 7 headed sea beast in Jewish Mythology called Leviathan....Equated in the OT with Egypt and in the NT with the Beast of Revelation.

Do a search in http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com article on Leviathan...

 

[Lewis]

Wrong there Orion....

The beast of Job 40 is none other that the 7 headed sea beast in Jewish Mythology called Leviathan....Equated in the OT with Egypt and in the NT with the Beast of Revelation.

George you are kidding me right ? Are you saying that the dino in Job 40 is a myth ?

 

[Georges]

Wrong there Orion....

The beast of Job 40 is none other that the 7 headed sea beast in Jewish Mythology called Leviathan....Equated in the OT with Egypt and in the NT with the Beast of Revelation.

George you are kidding me right ? Are you saying that the dino in Job 40 is a myth ?

No....it's not a myth.....Mythology was a mispeak....Legend (legends have truth in them) is probably more the word...Actually according to Jewish legend, Leviathan will be the meat provided during the great banquet at the Messianic Kingdom....heck...pages can be written about Leviathan and the symbology this "real creature" protrays...

 

[Lewis]

Wooooo Weeeeeee, George you scared me there for a minute I thought you had snapped :-D :D

 

[Guest]

Okay. . . . I'M convinced now. :roll:

Georges, if it be possible, you made Leviathan sound even MORE mythological. The "meat provided during the banquet...."??? :-?

There were no fire breathing creatures.

 

[unred typo]

Imagican wrote: Here's is what I would like ONE believer in a ten thousand year old
Earth to do. It's REAL simple REALLY. I would like ONE scripture that states ANYTHING about the age of the Earth. OR 1000 pieces of scripture. Which ever you choose. The TRUTH is, we have NO positive proof of the precise age of the Earth.

I’ll go with 1000 pieces for SOMETHING. While you can put gaps in Genesis if you feel you must, I don’t see the need. Science is such a fickle field of learning, you can’t really depend on any constancy in what it purports as truth today. Like the weather, it will change, and not always for the better.


Imagican wrote: I am willing to wager that the answer that I will receive is NOTHING more than the geneology of Adam and Eve, their respective ages and such, combining into a mere 10,000 years. Rediculous. Carbon dating may NOT be perfect, but we KNOW enough about radioactive elements to offer a 'reasonably' accurate estimation MOST of the time. Those opposed to the truth will ALWAYS point out that 'carbon dating CAN be wrong. Now, are they willing to admit that it can EVER be right? Doubful, for to do so would FORCE them to change the 'fairy tale' that they have been taught and have lived by ever since, (or before), they ever picked up a Bible.

You’re right here. That is about all I would offer you. The genealogy of man, starting with Adam. Why else would God give it? Why precise ages telling when this son of Adam had that son? I can think of no other reason than to give us an idea of the time we are living in. The other reason I find quite compelling is the fact that Jesus believed it. The cincher is the prophesy recorded in 2 Peter 3:
3Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Before you hitch your wagon to carbon dating, I would make sure it’s not a dead horse. From what I have read of it, there are more than a few problems and actually the whole process is based on a hypothesis that can not be proven to be absolutely reliable. The decay rates of today are ASSUMED to be the same rates as those of thousands (and billions) of years ago, and that NOTHING has contaminated the samples to change the isotope counts in all those years. You have more faith than I do. I’ll just stick to ages and simple math. :fadein:

 

[unred typo]

Orion wrote:
Uh, the creature in Job can be nothing other than the fabled "fire breathing dragon". A product of mythology straight from the Pagan religions.
There were no fire breathing creatures.


There are stranger creatures living today right here on God’s green earth, Orion. Mythology is sometimes based on true reports. Are you going to label the electric eel a myth as well? Haven’t you read about the fire spitting beetle? The blind bat that uses sonic waves? There are so many things in nature that you might not believe if you didn’t have living proof. Who would accept the way a panda’s babies are raised if we had no physical examples? How many mystical beasts are buried in the layers below our present knowledge? Having traits that we may not even imagine to be possible until a living specimen is discovered? Think about it.

 

[Georges]

Okay. . . . I'M convinced now. :roll:

Georges, if it be possible, you made Leviathan sound even MORE mythological. The "meat provided during the banquet...."??? :-?

There were no fire breathing creatures.

I didn't say Leviathan was a fire breathing dragon....dragons do not have to be firebreathing.....and God caused a small amount of bread to feed a lot of people...

 

[unred typo]

Georges, your leviathan may not be fire breathing, but the one in Job is:

Job 41:14 Who can open the doors of his face? his teeth are terrible round about.
15His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.
16One is so near to another, that no air can come between them.
17They are joined one to another, they stick together, that they cannot be sundered.
18By his neesings a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.
19Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.
20Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.
21His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.


ps....Georges, when I open your pdf reading file you sent me, it locks up my computer so I gave it up.

 

[Imagican]

Unred,

So, I assume you believe in a 'literal' six day creation? And that dinosaurs ONLY lasted ONE day? And you analysis of carbon dating STILL offers that IF carbon 14 DOES decay at a specific rate, it CAN be used to measure time. Also, what you offer is that EVERY specimen IS contaminated BEYOND our ability to measure it. REDICULOUS. Typo, when you get sick, what do YOU do? Ever had an X-ray done? or any kind of surgery? How about cooking in your kitchen? God a microwave oven? Telephone? Cable TV? Or satalite? From your perspective, you believe in these things enough to purchase and use them, (probably couldn't live without them), yet this 'other' part of science that you simply 'don't want to believe' you discard for it's lack of compliance with what you WANT to believe.

MAN has been on this earth for hundreds of thousands of years. We have found remains ON THIS CONTINENT of between 13 and twenty thousand years of age. The dinosaurs are MUCH older than these. You may choose to follow the 'fairy tales' of the church in their defining of Genesis, but that doesn't change what we HAVE learned since it was written. And what I offer takes NOTHING away from God or His Word. To the contrary, I believe that the Bible explains MOST of what I offer. The difference between what I offer and what the churches have taught is simply a matter of understanding. If you will read The Word WITHOUT the preconcieved notions or 'outside' teaching, much of it takes on a COMPLETELY different knowledge. Something akin to the 'truth' instead of fairy tales.

Forensics science and palentology have made ENORMOUS advances in recent years. MUCH of it IS fact. Some IS questionable. But that the EARTH is MORE than 10,000 years of age is OBVIOUS to all but the most 'brain-washed' die hards. From your perspective ALL differnces in humans have happened in five thousand years. That's rediculous. Blacks, Asians, Europeans, Native aboriginals, etc.......all being 'made different' in a mere five thousand years. Yeah Right.

The MOST important issue that the churches MISSED in their interpretation of Genesis 1 and 2 is that there was actually TWO creations. The first chapter speaks of the first creation, and the second chapter states from the beginning of it that EVERYTHING WAS COMPLETED. Then comes the creation of Adam and Eve. Once you come to this realization, you quickly see that science and religion are NOT separate, but able to COMPLIMENT one another. Just because there are scientist that DON'T believe in God does NOT take away from their learning of natural science.

Cain's wife was NOT his sister. If your son had just murdered his brother, would YOU let him take one of your daughters with him? Of course not. He went to the Land of Nod and found a wife there. OBVIOUS. And WHO did he build a 'city' for? Him and his wife and child? NO WAY. He build a city for PEOPLE. THERE were the daughters of men whom the Sons of God began to mate with. The first creation who knew of NO SINGLE GOD, began to mate with the descendants of Adam and Eve and before long they LOST their memory of the TRUE God and their hearts became EVIL continually. What IS evil? Rebelion AGAINST God.

We know that in the beginning man WAS a nomadic gatherer. Yet Adam was a farmer and his children were a farmer and a sheppard. And what about this one. In the first chapter of Genesis it is stated that once men and women were created, they were given EVERY TREE ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH to be for food. Yet when Adam was created and placed in the garden, he was specifically COMMANDED NOT to eat from a tree. Contradiction. ONLY if you believe Adam was the FIRST man created. He WAS the first man created and having the BREATH of life breathed into his nostrils. He WAS the FIRST man that had communion with God. But there were probably relatively civilized GROUPS Of people WAY before Adam and Eve. All one NEED do to undertand what I am offering is READ the Word WITHOUT considering the bogus understanding of the churches. Read the first chapter and the second. JUST READ IT. It will then become OBVIOUS that there were TWO separate creations.

And HOW do you think that in a mere five thousand years SO MANY different religions could have possibly formed IF EVERYONE on the planet is an offspring of Noah? Noah and his family KNEW God. Now, how do you suppose that ALL the descendants of Noah DO NOT have at least an historical understanding of God? These became God's CHOSEN people, the Hebrews/Jews.

And where do you suppose the line was drawn that distinguished the differnce between Gentile and Jew? Were they ALL descendants of Noah, there would BE NO DIFFERENCE IN THE BLOOD LINE.

MEC