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[__ Science __ ] Noahs Flood explained and Evolution refuted.

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Part 3 Part 3!!

One day, he will see the evidence of on old earth.
None that can't be better explained by the Bible.
One big rock in the OE's shoe is the fact that fossil fuels havent degraded into nothingness after these make believe "mills years".

The debate is over,
Demonstrably false. Just look at comment threads in videos, and in forums like this one.
What a mistake asserting "The debate is over!!"

the evidence is in
That the Bible is right and athiests' origin tales are wrong.

Ken Ham and his cronies are going the way of the dinosaur.
This 2010 article sure went the way of the dino. AIG, Ken, and all other Biblical Creationists are still going strong.

There is a high likelihood that this child will experience a crisis of faith or even reject his faith altogether because it is been inextricably woven with a nonsalvific issue.

Sounds like the faith of one woven with K2K evo , deep time, and/or big bang.

Note: "woven" does not necessarily mean "reject YEC = be unsaved".
The fact Mary was a virgin is woven into our faith too, but i doubt it is a salvation issue.

This is adding to the Gospel of Jesus Christ and AIG is beginning to sound more and more like a cult.
No, see above, Dee is starting to sound more and more like an illogical farmer, given how much straw Dee cranks out.

As a mother,
OHHHH, so Dee's a she. #ambigouosname

unproven doctrine
Haven't read very many, or mabye you converted most of them into straw (strawmanning them).

and debunked science.
See previous posts. It's History.

I am angry that dedicated Christian scientists like Hugh Ross and Francis Collins are deemed “so-called” Christians
Then Dee should be angry at her overactive imagination, she was the only person saying "so called" in the whole article.

“These people are guilty of faith murder.”
The commenter must not know much then.
Dawkins: "Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled _______" Dee, poster, and Barb, try to guess what goes in the blank.

He left YE because it was scientifically untenable.
That's like leaving math because you can't get 6 from 1 * 5. You are operating from a WRONG premise. YEC = History. OE is a fake history spun as "science" by its supporters. YEC isn't spun as science except by its opponents (and those FEW who have been sadly convinced it's science.)


May God open the hearts of these ice-cold zealots of the YE movement.
Oh? What about the fact AIG attacks ab**rtion frequently? Where is the coldness in sticking up for the voiceless? Oh righttt, more sandy foundation assertions from Farmer Dee.
 
Part 3 part 4 Owo

The worst aspect of YECS teaching is that it creates a nearly insurmountable barrier between the educated world and the church.

See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

The "educated" world, as Dee calls it, is humanistic & relies on Man's word rather than God's.
When the AC comes, I'm sure the "educated" world will also push the mark!

How much have we dishonored our Lord by slandering scientists and their reputation?
Who was slandered? Hint: try not to strawman!

How much have we sinned against Christian brothers holding another opinion by naming them "dangerous" and "compromisers"?
The only person talking about "dangerous" in the article is Dee.

She said this earlier:
Ken Ham is redefining the faith and that is very, very dangerous.
By HER logic, it is SHE who is "naming" Ken Ham "dangerous".

And yes, they are compromisers. It's a fact not just a name. I'm sure she'd be silent about "calling comporomiser = bad" if a Christian tried to incorporate Islamic beliefs into his worldview.

How much responsibility do we bear for having taught others (James 3:1) things that probably are not even true?
K2K and Old Earthers? A lot.

Each must search his own heart."
May God have mercy on us all.
Amen x2

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VERDICT: TERRIBLE AT LOGIC + FALSE
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RELIABILITY RATING SO FAR: D OR D-
 
""
For many of you who have read my recent posts, you will notice how many Christians get very upset & quite emotional at times over my insistence the days of creation are ordinary days & the earth can't be billions of years old but only about 6000 years.I don't find such people getting so emotional about the way I interpret the word day anywhere else in Scripture. Why is there such an emotional reaction when it comes to issues involving the age of the earth & days of creation.I believe it comes down to the following:1. People are in awe of science because of the technology we have. So when the majority of scientists insist the earth is billions of years old, even many Christians think they can't go against this. But they don't understand that dealing with beliefs about the past is not the same science as dealing with our observational science of the present that builds technology.2. For many Christian academics, there's an incredible peer pressure from the secular scientists of the world. Such academics don't want to be called anti-academic, anti-scientific etc. And one usually won't get published by mainstream scientific & theological Journals (most of which are more supportive of liberal ideas) if one is deemed to be a literal biblical creationist like we are at AIG.
.3. For many Christians, & Christian leaders it becomes a pride issue. I've found pastors who have taught the Gap Theory all their life (which is a compromise position to add millions of years into the bible) & most of them (not all, as I've seen some humble men of God who did admit they held to a wrong position & changed) can't swallow their pride to admit they are wrong.4. Our sin nature which is summed up in Genesis 3:1 & 3:5 is that we are prone to accept the fallible words of man rather than take God at His Word. I see this all the time in the church where so many leaders would rather accept the beliefs of man concerning billions of years that the clear Word of God. We need to stop letting our sin nature master us.5. It takes courage in a world where men "loved darkness rather than light" to stand against the majority of scientists. But remember, the majority didn't survive the Flood. Just because the majority believe something doesn't mean it's correct. Many examples of this can be illustrated from history.6. Many pastors don't want to cause division in their churches by taking a stand on a literal Genesis. Even some conservative pastors have told me they steer away from Genesis as it does create division. But there will always be people who will be adamant that the earth is billions of years old & the days of creation aren't ordinary days. Some pastors are worried about losing financial support. But Genesis 1-11 is the foundation for all doctrine, our morality, our worldview, & the rest of the bible. There's so much biblical illiteracy because so many leaders won't teach Genesis as they should, & this is a major factor as to why the younger generations are so secularized & leaving the church. And when leaders are soft on Genesis, I find they often get soft on LGBTQ etc.Actually the right sort of division is a good thing & needed "for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized" (1 Corinthians 11:19).7. The devil knows if he can destroy the foundation, the structure will fall. Genesis 1-11 is the foundation for everything. That's why there's so much attack on it.8. Secularists know if they don't have the billions of years, they can't propose their evolutionary ideas. That's why they get so emotional about this & intimidate people as time is their god--they need the time--they have to have the time. And sadly so many Christians give in to their billions of years beliefs thus helping these secularists undermine God's Word & attack the church.9. Many people reinterpret Genesis as they start outside Scripture with man's beliefs, not start with it & judge those beliefs! ""
Ken ham's words, not mine.
 
Barbarian



"
But could the Creator of language be so incapable of saying when and how and how long and in what order He created things? He could have easily explained in simple Hebrew language how He created over the course of millions of years, if He had done so.24 Genesis 1 could hardly say it more clearly for people of all times and cultures and levels of education or scientific understanding, namely, that God created the earth on Day One, completely covered with water until Day Three, when He made dry land and the plants. Then on Day Four He made the sun, moon, and stars. On Day Five He made the sea creatures and flying creatures, and on Day Six He created the land animals, including dinosaurs, along with man. "


" [The OEE view implies that] God-fearing Jews and Christians [were led] completely astray for more than 1800 years (for they believed that six literal, 24-hour days of creation occurred about 4,000 years before Christ) and who then used godless scientists in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries to tell God’s people what they could never have understood from Genesis based on sound principles of Bible [exegesis]. "




That is, the physical processes that scientists study today are not the processes God used to create the world during the first six days of history. Rather they are the processes that function under His providence during His rest from the work of creation. This fact therefore rules out evolution, the big bang, and millions of years, which are based on the assumption that present processes explain the origins of the universe and all it contains.
Does Scripture interpret Scripture, as orthodox Christians have always insisted and as Jesus and His apostles demonstrated? Or do we let the non-Christian (and generally anti-Christian) secular scientific majority tell us what Scripture means? It is an issue of biblical authority versus godless33 man’s authority and the authority of Christian theologians and scientists who have followed the godless majority.

-AnswersinGenesis
 
During the first two thirds of the twentieth century, duringwhich most Christian fundamentalists accepted the existence oflong geological ages
Yeah, what about before the old earth movement started? Most Christians (average everyday anonymous layman) held to instant creation with no use of long ages. And that the days were days and not some faceless span of time.


the leading voice arguing for the recentcreation of life on earth in six literal days was George McCreadyPrice (1870-1963),
OHHHH, he is the LEADING voice arguing?? Then that means there were OTHER voices who did NOT get sucked into the SDA venus flytrap!!!
Could it be.... that YEC is NOT made by sda's? That it's just a person who believed in YEC fell into a false view?

"George became SDA, so SDA invented YEC!!"
So I can use your argument to claim that Athiests made up Christianity, because athiests became Christians throughout history.
I can claim that Lee Strobels invented Christianity because he became Christian.

a scientifically self-taught creationist andteacher. Born and reared in the Maritime Provinces of Canada,Price as a youth joined the Seventh-day Adventists, a small religiousgroup founded and still led by a prophetess named Ellen G. White,whom Adventists regarded as being divinely inspired. Followingone of her trance-like "visions" White claimed actuallyto have witnessed the Creation, which occurred in a literal week.She also taught that Noah’s flood had sculpted the surfaceof the earth, burying the plants and animals found in the fossilrecord, and that the Christian Sabbath should be celebrated onSaturday rather than Sunday, as a memorial of a six-day creation.
She didn't witness the Creation. She probably dreamt about it some time after reading Genesis. But dreams are not inherently visions.


There is no evidence she is "inventing" the below:

Creation, which occurred in a literal week.She also taught that Noah's flood had sculpted the surfaceof the earth, burying the plants and animals found in the fossilrecord,
So? A broken clock is right twice a day.
I sense "Genetic fallacy" here: "SDAs are wrong so whatever they say is wrong!"

This only proves that people with incorrect beliefs can sometimes teach correct things and that people have dreamt about Genesis being true. It fails to prove "yec is fake".



Shortly after the turn of the century Price dedicated his lifeto a scientific defense
Sticking "repeat and test" into the unrepeatable unobserveable (by humans) past? Uh oh. Sounds like what OEE's do.
Remember, price is an SDA, so he's almost as compromising as OEE. Mabye more.
Convincedthat theories of organic evolution rested primarily on the notionof geological ages,
And the desire to "be OuR oWn gods". Self-creators.
the Scopes trial,
The K2K-evolution supporters involved at this trial used some pretty shady tactics.

If K2KE was real, why does it have to artificially "worm" its way into the schools?
 
Find us a population that has evolved as far as it can, and no further mutations are possible, and you have a case. Until then, it's just a story with nothing to support it.
Monkeys. You believe they are "too evolved" to evolve into humans.

MORE x2 mindedness. You claim that allelic change has no limits, but then you claim otherwise.
 
The guy in a tie talking about the Finches does not realize that "kinds" are NOT at the species or even genus level.

The Skibidi guy is correct that they are still finches. They didn't turn into dinosaurs (DINOS AS EXAMPLE). Nor did actively reporducing finch poulations start transforming and a lucky finch becoming a full dinosaur.


The skibidi guy is right again. Neither K2K nor natural sel are micro"evo", as TieGuy believes.
NS does reinforce certain traits "microevo" results in.
ME nor NS cause K2KE.

"You cant sepearate evolution from the mechanism that cause" As the old earth tract says, "Which version?" I'll assume it's the tract's version. Which seems to be the simple "microevo".

So obviously, you can't really seperate diversification withIN kinds (Micro"evo") from their causers.

K2K evolution (dino2bird for instance, and LUCA into all life) is seperated from reality from the get go!

"species to be related, but entire families and orders as well." - Tieguy

Related in that they had a common Creator, but not common animal/plant/whatever ancestor.

"Conversely.... biogeographic patterns... ever." -Tieguy
He forgot about the global Flood of Noah. That's a much more sound and intuitive conclusion than "it evolved!!"
So he actually gave us Earth flood evidence.

c-Evol-9.gif



Skibidi guy right again.
How did tie guy come to his conclusion?
Families are pretttty specific. Families are literally the 3rd most specific taxonomic group!


Part of Genesis 1:12:

"plants yielding seed according to their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, according to their kind; and God saw that it was good."

Obviously, God is not going to list all the families, and taxonomy is recent in earth's 6000+/- year history.

Is Tieguy trying to imply that ALL plants are 1 kind????
Do you believe that "kind" is Kingdom-level?


Gen 6:19
" And of every living thing of all flesh, you shall bring two of every kind into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female."

Now he just shot his case in the back. And confirmed that kind is family.

If ALL animals are ONE kind, then at most only TWO kinds were bought on the Ark. So why the "every" and not "both"?


Leviticus 19:19
"You shall not cross-breed two kinds of your cattle; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor wear a garment of two kinds of material mixed together."

Two kinds of material. Do clothing materials have taxonomic labels now??
 
The guy in a tie talking about the Finches does not realize that "kinds" are NOT at the species or even genus level.
The Bible uses "kinds" in a number of different ways, none of them taxonomic. "Kind" is a modern religious belief, like the tooth fairy.

the leading voice arguing for the recentcreation of life on earth in six literal days was George McCreadyPrice (1870-1963),

OHHHH, he is the LEADING voice arguing??
Sure. Other Adventists were spreading the idea. Price's great accomplishment was getting some evangelical Christians to accept the Adventist doctrine.

Could it be.... that YEC is NOT made by sda's?
Nope. The record shows it was invented by Seventh-Day Adventists and spread to evangelicals by one Adventist missionary.

"George became SDA, so SDA invented YEC!!"
No. SDA invented YEC because they invented the belief. It only spread to evangelicals later. In the early half of the 20th century, most creationists were OE. It was the form of creationism presented at the Scopes Trial, for example.

I sense "Genetic fallacy" here: "SDAs are wrong so whatever they say is wrong!"
You're still confused. YEC is wrong. Not because SDAs invented it. It's wrong because it's contrary to God's word and the evidence.

And the desire to "be OuR oWn gods". Self-creators.
Since Darwin attributed the origin of life to God, you couldn't be more wrong in making that assumption.

The K2K-evolution supporters involved at this trial used some pretty shady tactics.
They cited scripture and evidence. The rascals!

If K2KE was real, why does it have to artificially "worm" its way into the schools?
As you learned, it doesn't. That's just a YEC superstition.
 
The Bible uses "kinds" in a number of different ways, none of them taxonomic.
Nope, as you saw earlier:
And of every living thing of all flesh, you shall bring two of every kind into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female."
Obviously every "species" could not fit, so families were taken. I trust that God selected the best individuals.

you give no answer so far as to what you think the Biblical "kind" is. domain or kingdom.
"Kind" is a modern religious belief, like the tooth fairy.
Oh, so thats your answer, "its fake".

"Kind" is from the Bible, you are basically arguing against the taxonomic family at this point. Linnaeus died believing the Biblical kind was "family".
What religious belief integrates the tooth fairy? Flawed arguing on your part.
the leading voice arguing for the recentcreation of life on earth in six literal days was George McCreadyPrice (1870-1963),


Sure. Other Adventists were spreading the idea.
More Biblical Christians than sda's were spreading it. And besides, instant creation and 6 24hour days were the majority belief among Christians before long ages were made up.
Price's great accomplishment was getting some evangelical Christians to accept the Adventist doctrine.
The athiests' great accomplishment was turning the western public schools, which banned PRAYER, to get naiive students to accept deep time as well as athiestic origin tales like K2K evo and big bang.
Nope. The record shows it was invented by Seventh-Day Adventists and spread to evangelicals by one Adventist missionary.

I showed you otherwise. Odd how you think that is right and Biologos the thestic (K2K) evo bastion is wrong.

No. SDA invented YEC because they invented the belief.
!! CIRCULAR REASONING! THE K2K EVO SLIPS UP!!
It only spread to evangelicals later.
Position of ignorance.
In the early half of the 20th century, most creationists were OE. It was the form of creationism presented at the Scopes Trial, for example.
You keep glossing over the fact before the early half, most did Not believe in long ages.
Yes, the OEC made a stupid mistake by accepting OE.
"
When discussing creation, Darrow hit a weak spot in Bryan’s doctrine, a weak spot that allowed the wall Bryan had been building in defense of Scripture to crumble. It was on the issue of the six-day creation that Bryan capitulated, letting man’s idea of long geologic ages influence his understanding of the Bible. When Darrow asked Bryan about the Bible’s six days of creation with their evenings and mornings, Bryan said he believed the days were long periods of time, even millions of years. The pro-evolution defense team readily overran this breach in the wall. They used his compromise to argue that we don’t need to take the Bible literally and that evolution can fit into the Bible.13

If the creation account could be taken non-literally and interpreted as millions of years, then why couldn’t we also conclude that God used millions of years of evolution to lead to man from a lower order of animals? The defense team contended that evolution did not contradict the Bible and so the Butler Act was wrong. They also referenced many Christian leaders of the day who supported the teaching of evolution
.
"
You're still confused. YEC is wrong.
OE, K2KE is wrong. Not merely because athiest and misguided Christians made them, but because they fly in the face of the Biblical generations and "kinds". Ie, they contradict the Bible.
It's wrong because it's contrary to God's word
You gave no verses to back that.
and the evidence.
As you learned, its actually OE and K2KEvo that do that. Gasoline is still useable, remember? Oh right, facts are anathema to those compromised by athiest tales.
Since Darwin attributed the origin of life to God, you couldn't be more wrong in making that assumption.
The pagans invented the precursor to his belief. So its still the nonChristians who made up the belief you defend so passionately.
They cited scripture and evidence. The rascals!
Sounds like me. :o
As you learned, it doesn't. That's just a YEC superstition.
Define what you mean by superstition then, since you like the term.
 
The guy in a tie talking about the Finches does not realize that "kinds" are NOT at the species or even genus level.

The Skibidi guy is correct that they are still finches. They didn't turn into dinosaurs (DINOS AS EXAMPLE). Nor did actively reporducing finch poulations start transforming and a lucky finch becoming a full dinosaur.


The skibidi guy is right again. Neither K2K nor natural sel are micro"evo", as TieGuy believes.
NS does reinforce certain traits "microevo" results in.
ME nor NS cause K2KE.

"You cant sepearate evolution from the mechanism that cause" As the old earth tract says, "Which version?" I'll assume it's the tract's version. Which seems to be the simple "microevo".

So obviously, you can't really seperate diversification withIN kinds (Micro"evo") from their causers.

K2K evolution (dino2bird for instance, and LUCA into all life) is seperated from reality from the get go!

"species to be related, but entire families and orders as well." - Tieguy

Related in that they had a common Creator, but not common animal/plant/whatever ancestor.

"Conversely.... biogeographic patterns... ever." -Tieguy
He forgot about the global Flood of Noah. That's a much more sound and intuitive conclusion than "it evolved!!"
So he actually gave us Earth flood evidence.

c-Evol-9.gif



Skibidi guy right again.
How did tie guy come to his conclusion?
Families are pretttty specific. Families are literally the 3rd most specific taxonomic group!


Part of Genesis 1:12:

"plants yielding seed according to their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, according to their kind; and God saw that it was good."

Obviously, God is not going to list all the families, and taxonomy is recent in earth's 6000+/- year history.

Is Tieguy trying to imply that ALL plants are 1 kind????
Do you believe that "kind" is Kingdom-level?


Gen 6:19
" And of every living thing of all flesh, you shall bring two of every kind into the ark, to keep them alive with you; they shall be male and female."

Now he just shot his case in the back. And confirmed that kind is family.

If ALL animals are ONE kind, then at most only TWO kinds were bought on the Ark. So why the "every" and not "both"?


Leviticus 19:19
"You shall not cross-breed two kinds of your cattle; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor wear a garment of two kinds of material mixed together."

Two kinds of material. Do clothing materials have taxonomic labels now??
 
Find us a population that has evolved as far as it can, and no further mutations are possible, and you have a case. Until then, it's just a story with nothing to support it.


me:
Monkeys. You believe they are "too evolved" to evolve into humans.

MORE instability in your views, You claim that allelic change has no limits, but then you claim otherwise.
 
The Bible uses "kinds" in a number of different ways, none of them taxonomic.

Yep. It says that grasshoppers (a suborder!) are one kind. It says that birds and bats, (different classes!) are a kind. Do you not see that the "kind" in the Bible is a functional classification, which does not consider relationships between living things.?

Obviously every "species" could not fit, so families were taken.
Last time I checked, there were about 5300 families of animals. Which would mean between 10,600 and 37,000 animals on board. Let's say two-thirds of them are fish or otherwise not necessary on the Ark. Maybe 20,000 animals. Feed for a year for them. And someone will have to daily clean up the excretia and climb to the upper deck to dump it out.

You could, of course, resort to adding another nonscriptural miracle to make it work. But if you're allowed to insert miracles every time your interpretation has a problem, then any story works.

"Kind" is a modern religious belief, like the tooth fairy.

Oh, so thats your answer, "its fake".
It's an error. Most creationists below the level of televangelists, believe in creationism.

"Kind" is from the Bible, you are basically arguing against the taxonomic family at this point.
No, you're wrong about that. Notice it sometimes would fit "family" sometimes "order" or sometimes "class." Depends on the case in scripture.

More Biblical Christians than sda's were spreading it.
Nope. Before Price spread the SDA doctrine to evengelicals, most of them were OE creationists.

You keep glossing over the fact before the early half, most did Not believe in long ages.
In fact, many geologists in the 1600s thought the Earth was young. Only after the evidence accumulated, did they reluctantly accept an old Earth.

Since Darwin attributed the origin of life to God, you couldn't be more wrong in making that assumption.

The pagans invented the precursor to his belief.
No, that's wrong. There were some European scientists who had some glimmer of what was going on, but natural selection was Darwin's great discovery.

The athiests' great accomplishment was turning the western public schools, which banned PRAYER,
You really got that one wrong. My daughter was a member of FCA, and they prayed before and during school together. You see, our religious freedoms assure us the right to practice religion, and the right to not have government impose religion on us. C'mon.

No. SDA invented YEC because they invented the belief.

!! CIRCULAR REASONING!
Nope. Perhaps you don't know what "circular reasoning" is. What do you think it is?

Define what you mean by superstition then

  1. superstition /soo͞″pər-stĭsh′ən/

    noun​

    1. An irrational belief that an object, action, or circumstance not logically related to a course of events influences its outcome.
    2. A belief, practice, or rite irrationally maintained by ignorance of the laws of nature or by faith in magic or chance.
    3. A fearful or abject state of mind resulting from such ignorance or irrationality.
    4. Idolatry.
    5. An excessive reverence for, or fear of, that which is unknown or mysterious.
    6. An ignorant or irrational worship of the Supreme Deity; excessive exactness or rigor in religious opinions or practice; extreme and unnecessary scruples in the observance of religious rites not commanded, or of points of minor importance; also, a rite or practice proceeding from excess of sculptures in religion.
    7. The worship of a false god or gods; false religion; religious veneration for objects.
    8. Belief in the direct agency of superior powers in certain extraordinary or singular events, or in magic, omens, prognostics, or the like.
    The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, 5th Edition • More at Wordnik
 
Yep. It says that grasshoppers (a suborder!) are one kind. It says that birds and bats, (different classes!) are a kind. Do you not see that the "kind" in the Bible is a functional classification, which does not consider relationships between living things.?
Oh? Where?

Let's say two-thirds of them are fish or otherwise not necessary on the Ark.
No fish were on the Ark. They could survive the planetary flood. Of course, many would die and others would survive, by chance and or by God saving them.
Feed for a year for them. And someone will have to daily clean up the excretia and climb to the upper deck to dump it out.
The animals were almost certainly very young when taken on board the Ark.
If you were in Noah's day, would you take on big animals, rather than eggs and babies?
You could, of course, resort to adding another nonscriptural miracle to make it work. But if you're allowed to insert miracles every time your interpretation has a problem, then any story works.
What did we add? Right, you can't specify, because that assertion is hollow like a taxidermy animal. No meat just fluff.
"Kind" is a modern religious belief, like the tooth fairy.
Modern? When was it supposedly "invented"?

As you learned, that was a flawed argument.

"Kind" is from the Bible, you are basically arguing against the taxonomic family at this point. Linnaeus died believing the Biblical kind was "family".
What religious belief integrates the tooth fairy? Flawed arguing on your part.

the leading voice arguing for the recentcreation of life on earth in six literal days was George McCreadyPrice (1870-1963),
Mmmmhmm.
And who was, BEFORE 1870? Hmmm?
You focus a lot on recent history, after 1800s, but typically refuse to accept/address BEFORE 1800s. I know why. Because it stabs big holes in K2K evo and its reputation. At least I face the 1800s and later.

As you learned accepting OE in the Scopes trial was a stupid mistake. They should have stood on the coherent, Biblie-exclusive position, called YEC.

OE acceptance is why the Christian was defeated and Paganism, along with its creation K2K evo, won the case.
Did you really think OE gave the Christian one bit of strength in that case?????

Pagans argued for K2K evolution. Then it lie down in the dust like a false teaching, instead of standing like a Bible-based teaching.
Then Darwin became the leading voice for it later on.

Most creationists below the level of televangelists, believe in creationism.
That's literally what "creationist" means. If they don't, then calling them a "creationist" is a misapplied label.

Notice it sometimes would fit "family" sometimes "order" or sometimes "class." Depends on the case in scripture.
No verses given.

Nope. Before Price spread the SDA doctrine to evengelicals, most of them were OE creationists.
Before pagans invented OE, most were YEC. Biologos contradicts your claims.

Ham is partly correct: the Adventists certainly didn’t invent the idea of a young earth. Nearly all Christians prior to the late eighteenth century believed that God created the world just a few thousand years ago

Is Biologos lying? Or are you wrong?

How could an F2F-evolution bastion ORGANIZATION like them get a detail so wrong?? Mind boggling.

In fact, many geologists in the 1600s thought the Earth was young.
Because the Bible told them so.
Only after the evidence accumulated, did they reluctantly accept an old Earth.
No, only after they let assumptions supersede Biblical teaching.
Remember, gasoline still works. Hmm i wonder why.
OE is a problem not a solution.
Since Darwin attributed the origin of life to God,
Many people refer to God and even profess to be Christian. That does not mean they aren't lukewarm Christians.

Matthew 7:22-24
"
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

"
So how do you know Darwin was not lukewarm?



you couldn't be more wrong in making that assumption.
That's not because of Darwin, that's because you finally admitted that most geologists accepted what the Bible said, until they let in compromise.
Why didn't they ask themselves about other factors, and not just jump to "lots of time!!"



Say you have a mechanical alarm clock in your room, like the circular one with hands that you hit on the top.
And you have a digital watch. So you prepare for work, leave your house, and go to work.
But then, you clock out for the day, return home, enter your room, and your alarm clock says 10 am! But the digital watch says "8 pm". And the sun going down confirms that your watch is correct.
So does that mean that 14 hours passed, and that your reliable watch is wrong? NO!!

You then look at a camera, and see that the prankster kid who likes to do pranks on you broke into your house and messed with the clock.

The mechanical clock is like your "evidence" for long ages.
Your watch and camera are like the Bible.
The sun going down is like evidence for the Bible, as opposed to athiests' tales like K2K Evo and deep time.
The prankster is like all that REALLY happened in the span of around 6,000 that causes us to assume something is so ridiculously old.
Your checking of your camera and digital watch is like you relying on the Bible, instead of blindly assuming that the clock is always right. OE is a blind faith belief after all. Or at least one with big dark spots in its vision! But the Biblical position on creation (which is ANTI-oeK2Ke), however, is 20/20.
 
Yes. "They invented because they invented". Believing in OEK2KE pulled the wool over your eyes again.


No, that's wrong. There were some European scientists who had some glimmer of what was going on,
explain?

You really got that one wrong. My daughter was a member of FCA, and they prayed before and during school together. You see, our religious freedoms assure us the right to practice religion, and the right to not have government impose religion on us. C'mon.
My apologies for not adding the words "most of".
Yes, they turned MOST OF the public schools. But they did it gradually, not instantly.

Exceptions are not the rule. Glad you were in an exception.

But you seem to be right when you imply that prayer is still in schools. Just not certain kinds (like mandatory ones) from certain sources (like the school).


Meanwhile, there's this:
  1. Have a secular purpose;
  2. Must neither advance nor inhibit religion; and

" “He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters. " - Matthew 12:30
Secular is not neutral. Everyone has a religion, whether it has God, a god(s), or no god(s) / God.

In the futile struggle to be "neutral", public schools are caving to what the Athiests are peddling. That involves OE and K2K evo.
The "neutral" public schools are accepting these non-neutral, contra-Bible belief, because it appeals to their fallen state, that is convinced that those hostile beliefs are "neutral".

Jeremiah 17:9.
Their "hearts" fool them into thinking such beliefs are neutral. And it fools them into believing there is a "neutral", contra to Matthew's teaching.
 
  1. An irrational belief that an object, action, or circumstance not logically related to a course of events influences its outcome.
  2. A belief, practice, or rite irrationally maintained by ignorance of the laws of nature or by faith in magic or chance.
  3. A fearful or abject state of mind resulting from such ignorance or irrationality.
  4. Idolatry.
  5. An excessive reverence for, or fear of, that which is unknown or mysterious.
  6. An ignorant or irrational worship of the Supreme Deity; excessive exactness or rigor in religious opinions or practice; extreme and unnecessary scruples in the observance of religious rites not commanded, or of points of minor importance; also, a rite or practice proceeding from excess of sculptures in religion.
  7. The worship of a false god or gods; false religion; religious veneration for objects.
  8. Belief in the direct agency of superior powers in certain extraordinary or singular events, or in magic, omens, prognostics, or the like.
So which one did you use when you claimed that K2K evo worming its way into schools was a "supersition"? 1? 8? What?
 
the OEC made a stupid mistake by accepting OE.
"
When discussing creation, Darrow hit a weak spot in Bryan’s doctrine, a weak spot that allowed the wall Bryan had been building in defense of Scripture to crumble. It was on the issue of the six-day creation that Bryan capitulated, letting man’s idea of long geologic ages influence his understanding of the Bible. When Darrow asked Bryan about the Bible’s six days of creation with their evenings and mornings, Bryan said he believed the days were long periods of time, even millions of years. The pro-evolution defense team readily overran this breach in the wall. They used his compromise to argue that we don’t need to take the Bible literally and that evolution can fit into the Bible.13

If the creation account could be taken non-literally and interpreted as millions of years, then why couldn’t we also conclude that God used millions of years of evolution to lead to man from a lower order of animals? The defense team contended that evolution did not contradict the Bible and so the Butler Act was wrong. They also referenced many Christian leaders of the day who supported the teaching of evolution
.
"
 
the leading voice arguing for the recentcreation of life on earth in six literal days was George McCreadyPrice (1870-1963),
OHHHH, he is the LEADING voice arguing?? Then that means there were OTHER voices who did NOT get sucked into the SDA venus flytrap!!!

Could it be.... that YEC is NOT made by sda's? That it's just a person who believed in YEC fell into a false view?



"George became SDA, so SDA invented YEC!!"

So I can use your argument to claim that Athiests made up Christianity, because athiests became Christians throughout history.

I can claim that Lee Strobels invented Christianity because he became Christian.



a scientifically self-taught creationist andteacher. Born and reared in the Maritime Provinces of Canada,Price as a youth joined the Seventh-day Adventists, a small religiousgroup founded and still led by a prophetess named Ellen G. White,whom Adventists regarded as being divinely inspired. Followingone of her trance-like "visions" White claimed actuallyto have witnessed the Creation, which occurred in a literal week.She also taught that Noah’s flood had sculpted the surfaceof the earth, burying the plants and animals found in the fossilrecord, and that the Christian Sabbath should be celebrated onSaturday rather than Sunday, as a memorial of a six-day creation.
She didn't witness the Creation. She probably dreamt about it some time after reading Genesis. But dreams are not inherently visions.





There is no evidence she is "inventing" the below:



Creation, which occurred in a literal week.She also taught that Noah's flood had sculpted the surfaceof the earth, burying the plants and animals found in the fossilrecord,
So? A broken clock is right twice a day.

I sense "Genetic fallacy" here: "SDAs are wrong so whatever they say is wrong!"



This simply proves that people have dreamt about Genesis being true. It fails to prove "yec is fake".
 
Since evolution is directly observed in populations constantly, I think your guys probably don't know what evolution is. I suppose they could be lying or deluded...

What do you think it is?
Evolution as a vehicle of creation has not been observed. Genetic mutation has been observed. There is a massive difference between micro and macro evolution. Perhaps defining terms would be appropriate in this discussion.
 
the leading voice arguing for the recentcreation of life on earth in six literal days was George McCreadyPrice (1870-1963),

OHHHH, he is the LEADING voice arguing??
Sure. There were lots of SDAs. He wasn't even the first SDA to come up with the story.

Then that means there were OTHER voices who did NOT get sucked into the SDA venus flytrap!!!
By definition, they were SDA. It's an SDA doctrine.

Could it be.... that YEC is NOT made by sda's?
If you think Ellen G. White was not an SDA. But that is just wrong.

"George became SDA, so SDA invented YEC!!"
"Ellen was an SDA, and she invented YE creationism, which was adopted by the SDAs, so YE is an SDA doctrine."

So I can use your argument to claim that Athiests made up Christianity, because athiests became Christians throughout history.
Doesn't seem to fit your imagination very well, does it? Her revisions include:

Creation, which occurred in a literal week.She also taught that Noah's flood had sculpted the surface of the earth, burying the plants and animals found in the fossil record,

As you know, even creationist geologists eventually admitted that the evidence would not fit a literal creation week. Even YE creationists at least admit that God did it.

So? A broken clock is right twice a day.
Yep.

I sense "Genetic fallacy" here: "SDAs are wrong so whatever they say is wrong!"
Why would you think that? SDAs are wrong about a lot of things in Genesis, but they do admit that God created all things.

This simply proves that people have dreamt about Genesis being true.
It's true. It's just that YE is man's revision of Genesis.
 
Evolution as a vehicle of creation has not been observed.
The evolution of new taxa pretty much settles that. That's how God makes the variety of living things on Earth. It's no coincidence that genetics has confirmed this finding.

There is a massive difference between micro and macro evolution.
You've been badly misled on that. In the case of ring species, for example, microevolution can retroactively become macroevolution.

I think you should probably learn what those words mean in science.
 
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