Not every person Ever Born is a Child of God.

[follower]

What does it mean that those who are of faith are sons of Abraham ...​

Apr 30, 2024Twice, Jesus agrees that they are Abraham's children but implies they really have another father. In verse 44 He states it plainly: "You are of your father the devil." .

 

[Hopeful 2]

When it’s said that Jesus is son of Abraham, is that true?

Jesus was of the direct lineage of Abe', because Mary was.

 

[LeviR]

Jesus was of the direct lineage of Abe', because Mary was.

You say that Jesus was of the direct lineage of Abraham, through Mary.
Would you agree then that the person you call Jesus, is a son of the person called Abraham, through the person called Mary?

 

[Hopeful 2]

You say that Jesus was of the direct lineage of Abraham, through Mary.
Would you agree then that the person you call Jesus, is a son of the person called Abraham, through the person called Mary?

Yes, but only on the mother's side of His family.
The genealogy makes that clear.

 

[LeviR]

Yes, but only on the mother's side of His family.
The genealogy makes that clear.

This is what I don’t understand. When you say, “His family”, my mind tells me that He has a family through His genealogy. And that because His family are Jewish persons he too would be a Jewish person.
However, orthodox Trinitarians tell me He is not a Jewish person but a person who is the second person of the Trinity.

 

[follower]

This is what I don’t understand. When you say, “His family”, my mind tells me that He has a family through His genealogy. And that because His family are Jewish persons he too would be a Jewish person.
However, orthodox Trinitarians tell me He is not a Jewish person but a person who is the second person of the Trinity.

Don't listen.

 

[LeviR]

Don't listen.

That’s the problem, who to listen to.
Do I listen to those who say Jesus was a human person or to those who say he is the second person of the Trinity?

 

[follower]

That’s the problem, who to listen to.
Do I listen to those who say Jesus was a human person or to those who say he is the second person of the Trinity?

Neither. I do not know who you listen to , or what you believe.
I suspect you are not a follower of Jesus from your posts/answers/ but I don't know.

 

[LeviR]

Neither. I do not know who you listen to , or what you believe.
I suspect you are not a follower of Jesus from your posts/answers/ but I don't know.

Jesus is neither the second person of the Trinity or a human person?
Then who is he?

 

[for_his_glory]

Romans 8:29-30 is clear that it is the people.....WHOM
Not a plan....a people..Whom He did foreknow.
Not a plan.....ie,WHAT He did foreknow.

Even though God created man, yet Jesus being before the foundation of the world had His purpose in the world as God had all things planned out before hand. Do you think God would have known man would sin against Him? I would think so because of the fall of Satan before man was ever created. Like Judas, Jesus told him to go do what he needed to do as Jesus already knew Judas would sell Him out. God already knew ahead of time as Jesus is the arm of God even before the foundation of the world, Isaiah 53:1. This is why Mary, even though not born yet, was already predestined before the foundation of the world, Jeremiah 1:5.

 

[for_his_glory]

That’s the problem, who to listen to.
Do I listen to those who say Jesus was a human person or to those who say he is the second person of the Trinity?

Listen to that of what has already been written by the inspired Prophets and Apostles as you will only find truth in the word of God as only the Holy Spirit can teach us all truths, John 14:26. The answers to our questions are only found in the Bible.

 

[Iconoclast]

Even though God created man, yet Jesus being before the foundation of the world had His purpose in the world as God had all things planned out before hand.

Okay, agreed. God has an eternal purpose. Eph 3:9-11

Do you think God would have known man would sin against Him?

God is omniscient'

I would think so because of the fall of Satan before man was ever created. Like Judas, Jesus told him to go do what he needed to do as Jesus already knew Judas would sell Him out. God already knew ahead of time as Jesus is the arm of God even before the foundation of the world, Isaiah 53:1.

I am not sure of what your concern is here.?

This is why Mary, even though not born yet, was already predestined before the foundation of the world, Jeremiah 1:5.

FHG, what does any of this have to do with the previous discussion? Many things could be written about, but not one of these things address the point of rom8:29-30....Whom, not what?

 

[LeviR]

Listen to that of what has already been written by the inspired Prophets and Apostles as you will only find truth in the word of God as only the Holy Spirit can teach us all truths, John 14:26. The answers to our questions are only found in the Bible.

That was my conclusion. If I want t to know the truth I can find it in the Bible.
One thing I discovered is that God puts a high value on knowledge and understanding. He says to seek it because it’s more valuable than all the gold.
That’s why I reject ideas that can’t be understood or are contradictory.

 

[for_his_glory]

That was my conclusion. If I want t to know the truth I can find it in the Bible.
One thing I discovered is that God puts a high value on knowledge and understanding. He says to seek it because it’s more valuable than all the gold.
That’s why I reject ideas that can’t be understood or are contradictory.

Always check what others say to see if it lines up with scripture. That is why it is so important to give scripture so others can look it up and study for themselves.

 

[for_his_glory]

Okay, agreed. God has an eternal purpose. Eph 3:9-11

God is omniscient'

I am not sure of what your concern is here.?

FHG, what does any of this have to do with the previous discussion? Many things could be written about, but not one of these things address the point of rom8:29-30....Whom, not what?

Everything is about the future glory of God in Romans 8:18-30. He knows our beginnings and our endings and who will be His own and those who will reject Him. Not everyone born is a Spiritual child of God.

 

[Free]

However, orthodox Trinitarians tell me He is not a Jewish person but a person who is the second person of the Trinity.

Straw man.

That’s the problem, who to listen to.
Do I listen to those who say Jesus was a human person or to those who say he is the second person of the Trinity?

False dichotomy.

That was my conclusion. If I want t to know the truth I can find it in the Bible.
One thing I discovered is that God puts a high value on knowledge and understanding. He says to seek it because it’s more valuable than all the gold.
That’s why I reject ideas that can’t be understood or are contradictory.

You don’t see this as problematic? While that sounds pious, is that really biblical? Do you deny that God appoints some to be teachers, who generally know more than the majority of laity, particularly in knowledge of the original languages? Does no one else in 2000 years of Church history have any bearing on what you believe? Are we not called to community and to do theology in community rather than on our own?

What about people who are simpler and just don’t have the intellectual capacity to fully understand? Should they dismiss everything they are taught but don’t understand?

More than that, what makes you believe that everything in the Bible can be understood? Should a finite mind be able to fully comprehend the infinite God and everything he does?

Be careful as it seems like you've set yourself up as the sole arbiter of truth, and that's a dangerous place to be in.

 

[LeviR]

Straw man.


False dichotomy.


You don’t see this as problematic? While that sounds pious, is that really biblical? Do you deny that God appoints some to be teachers, who generally know more than the majority of laity, particularly in knowledge of the original languages? Does no one else in 2000 years of Church history have any bearing on what you believe? Are we not called to community and to do theology in community rather than on our own?

What about people who are simpler and just don’t have the intellectual capacity to fully understand? Should they dismiss everything they are taught but don’t understand?

More than that, what makes you believe that everything in the Bible can be understood? Should a finite mind be able to fully comprehend the infinite God and everything he does?

Be careful as it seems like you've set yourself up as the sole arbiter of truth, and that's a dangerous place to be in.

I think I’ve asked you this question before but you’ve failed to give me an answer.
If it is as you say a false dichotomy that Jesus is the second person of the Trinity or a Jewish person, then I’ll ask again, who is he.

 

[Free]

I think I’ve asked you this question before but you’ve failed to give me an answer.

I don't think that was me.

If it is as you say a false dichotomy that Jesus is the second person of the Trinity or a Jewish person, then I’ll ask again, who is he.

He's both truly God and truly man--two natures in one person--hence the false dichotomy. That is what the doctrine of the Trinity teaches and has always taught.

But this isn't the topic of this thread nor does it answer any of the questions I asked, although those were mostly rhetorical.

 

[LeviR]

I don't think that was me.


He's both truly God and truly man--two natures in one person--hence the false dichotomy. That is what the doctrine of the Trinity teaches and has always taught.

But this isn't the topic of this thread nor does it answer any of the questions I asked, although those were mostly rhetorical.

It’s not a false dichotomy when speaking of who that one person is.
Is he not the second person of the Trinity?
Trinitarians would affirm that Jesus is the second person of the Trinity.
Does that mean he is not a human person?
Anyone who is said to be truly man can also be said to be truly a human person.
Is Jesus then both the second person of the Trinity and a human person?

 

[Free]

It’s not a false dichotomy when speaking of who that one person is.

Yes, it is.

Is Jesus then both the second person of the Trinity and a human person?

Why are you asking this when I have made that clear, when that is what the doctrine of the Trinity teaches? Have you ever actually studied the doctrine of the Trinity?

Again, this is not the topic of this thread, so let's leave it at that.