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Not every person Ever Born is a Child of God.

LeviR said:
It’s totally bizarre for people to
teach that Mary did not give birth to a human person.
Human people do human things like pray. Jesus prayed.
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It is, but that is what Gnostics and Docetists did, and why John wrote:

1Jn 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
1Jn 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. (ESV)
 
LeviR said:
This is what I don’t understand. When you say, “His family”, my mind tells me that He has a family through His genealogy. And that because His family are Jewish persons he too would be a Jewish person.
However, orthodox Trinitarians tell me He is not a Jewish person but a person who is the second person of the Trinity.
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They seem to discount the fact that Jesus was born of a woman, who was a Jew.
Everyone has two parents, including Jesus.
 
Free said:
It is, but that is what Gnostics and Docetists did, and why John wrote:

1Jn 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
1Jn 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. (ESV)
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They don’t say Mary gave birth to a human being, they call it “the incarnation”
Their teaching means that Mary gave birth to no one.
 
LeviR said:
They don’t say Mary gave birth to a human being, they call it “the incarnation”
Their teaching means that Mary gave birth to no one.
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Perhaps Gnostics and Docetists define it that way, but that is not how Christians define it.
 
LeviR said:
They don’t say Mary gave birth to a human being, they call it “the incarnation”
Their teaching means that Mary gave birth to no one.
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If it isn't in the bible, it is a false teaching.
Look at Matt 1:18, and Luke 1:14.
Both allude to Jesus' birth.
Matt 1:23 also says..."Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Matt. is citing this verse from Isaiah 7:14..."Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."
 
Hopeful 2 said:
If it isn't in the bible, it is a false teaching.
Look at Matt 1:18, and Luke 1:14.
Both allude to Jesus' birth.
Matt 1:23 also says..."Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Matt. is citing this verse from Isaiah 7:14..."Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."
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Yeah, I believe Mary gave birth to a son. She brought forth a human person.
The Catholic Church disagrees.
 
LeviR said:
Do you think Jesus was a human person? I do.
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I’m going to pretend you didn’t actually ask that, given what I’ve already stated, and given what orthodox Christian belief is on the matter.
 
Hopeful 2 said:
Their beliefs have no bearing on my new life, so what can I say ?
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When Jesus was pleading with God that He might provide another way other than death, they say it was not a human person doing that, It was a divine person pleading with another divine person
 
LeviR said:
When Jesus was pleading with God that He might provide another way other than death, they say it was not a human person doing that, It was a divine person pleading with another divine person
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Please stop with the straw man arguments, keep to the topic, and go learn what Christians actually believe.
 
Free said:
Please stop with the straw man arguments, keep to the topic, and go learn what Christians actually believe.
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Christian’s believe differently on a wide variety of topics. Which Christian’s are you referring to?
I know of many different teachings on the Trinity.
 
LeviR said:
When Jesus was pleading with God that He might provide another way other than death, they say it was not a human person doing that, It was a divine person pleading with another divine person
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We could look at it that way, but it depends on the definition of "divine".
Jesus was God's Son, as well as Mary's; so divine seems to be applicable.
They just forgot about the "Mary" portion of Jesus.
It must be part of their odd insistence that Mary remained a virgin throughout her life.
 
Hopeful 2 said:
We could look at it that way, but it depends on the definition of "divine".
Jesus was God's Son, as well as Mary's; so divine seems to be applicable.
They just forgot about the "Mary" portion of Jesus.
It must be part of their odd insistence that Mary remained a virgin throughout her life.
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Like I said, ideas have consequences. One of the consequences of their idea results in Mary being without original sin. Their claim is that Jesus was born without original sin because Mary didn’t have it. And therefore, if Mary had more children, they would also be without original sin. So they deny that Mary had other children.
 
LeviR said:
Like I said, ideas have consequences. One of the consequences of their idea results in Mary being without original sin. Their claim is that Jesus was born without original sin because Mary didn’t have it. And therefore, if Mary had more children, they would also be without original sin. So they deny that Mary had other children.
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It may also be that if Mary had no original sin then it would be wrong for her to give birth to another child that did.
 
LeviR said:
Like I said, ideas have consequences. One of the consequences of their idea results in Mary being without original sin. Their claim is that Jesus was born without original sin because Mary didn’t have it. And therefore, if Mary had more children, they would also be without original sin. So they deny that Mary had other children.
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As "original sin" is a catholic concept to begin with, we can toss that whole idea aside.
Start calling it what it really was...the first sin.
Nobody has to pay for sins done by another, including Adam's sin. (Ezek 18:20)
 
Hopeful 2 said:
As "original sin" is a catholic concept to begin with, we can toss that whole idea aside.
Start calling it what it really was...the first sin.
Nobody has to pay for sins done by another, including Adam's sin. (Ezek 18:20)
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Yeah, I don’t buy anything the Catholics teach. They make up all sorts of words and phases that can be found nowhere in the Bible.
 
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