Not every person Ever Born is a Child of God.

[Iconoclast]

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace

1. Notice it says "should be", but has anyone ever been perfectly holy and blameless before Him!

It is a purpose clause! It is not a contingency! ..It is NOT "we should be", I have my fingers crossed"
should is not meant to be up for grabs, you are mis-reading it.

2. We are only "predestined" unto the adoption of children, but only if we come to Christ through repentance and forgiveness

There is not a contingency here, you are reading it wrong...God does what He purposes to do, every time:
9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: It is not up to us, but rather up to God;
Phil.1: 6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

3. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life and no one comes to the Father, but by Christ Jesus only.

Agreed, this is true.

We have all sinned, beginning with Adam and Eve, and all have fallen short of His glory, but through laying down His own life for the love He has for all we have redemption through His blood that we all can be reconciled back to God.

Jesus died with a Covenant love for the elect children the Father gave to Him...The seed of Abraham, not the seed of Adam;
Heb2:
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Not every person that has ever been born is a child of God as only God knows the intents of the heart.

God knows our hearts are deceitful and desperately wicked. That is why in mercy He elected a multitude of sinners out of fallen Humanity to set His saving love upon...no more, no less.
mt.20:
15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?

16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

 

[for_his_glory]

Actually...God GRANTS Repentance and faith, enabling those elected to turn and believe. No man turns to God on their own. Salvation is graced to these sinners...not the other way around.

God's grace pardons our sins as His mercy loves us.

 

[for_his_glory]

It is a purpose clause! It is not a contingency! ..It is NOT "we should be", I have my fingers crossed"
should is not meant to be up for grabs, you are mis-reading it.

There is not a contingency here, you are reading it wrong...God does what He purposes to do, every time:
9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: It is not up to us, but rather up to God;
Phil.1: 6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Agreed, this is true.


Jesus died with a Covenant love for the elect children the Father gave to Him...The seed of Abraham, not the seed of Adam;
Heb2:
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

God knows our hearts are deceitful and desperately wicked. That is why in mercy He elected a multitude of sinners out of fallen Humanity to set His saving love upon...no more, no less.
mt.20:
15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?

16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

Since you deem yourself all knowing and deeming everyone who does not agree with you are in error, then this conversation with you is done. You have a great day.

 

[Iconoclast]

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace

1. Notice it says "should be", but has anyone ever been perfectly holy and blameless before Him!

2. We are only "predestined" unto the adoption of children, but only if we come to Christ through repentance and forgiveness

3. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life and no one comes to the Father, but by Christ Jesus only. We have all sinned, beginning with Adam and Eve, and all have fallen short of His glory, but through laying down His own life for the love He has for all we have redemption through His blood that we all can be reconciled back to God.

Not every person that has ever been born is a child of God as only God knows the intents of the heart.

Precept austin:
THE RESULT OF ELECTION
AND PREDESTINATION

That we would be holy and blameless - Paul explains the purpose God chose us - This privileged position should stimulate ever saint to passionately pursue holiness (cp He 12:14+ where "sanctification" = holiness).

Spurgeon - We are chosen, not because we are holy, but that we may be made holy. The election precedes the character, and is indeed the moving cause in producing the character. Before the foundation of the world, God chose us in Christ, "that we should be holy and without blame before him in love." You see, then, beloved brethren and sisters, the end for which the Lord chose you by his grace....Here is the blessing of sanctification; we are chosen that we may be made holy. To what nobler end could we have been elected? Is not this the very highest of our heart’s desires, — “that we should be holy and without blame before him in love”?

We would be (1511) (einai = present tense infinitive mood of eimi = to be, to exist) is in the present tense which speaks of our continuous state. In context Paul is saying that all believers are in a position before God of being holy because they are all in Christ. Acting or living holy is another matter that requires daily presentation of one's self to God and moment by moment dependence on His enabling, transforming grace and His Spirit. The fact that believers are positionally holy is sound doctrine which is the basis for holy living.

Eadie explains that einai "is the infinitive of design—that we should be." (Eadie - Ephesians Commentar
Eadie writes that hagios and amomos are two adjectives which...

express the same idea, with a slight shade of variation. Dt 7:6, 14:2. The first (hagios) is inner consecration to God, or holy principle—the positive aspect; the latter (amomos) refers to its result, the life governed by such a power must be blameless and without reprehension—the negative aspect, as Alford and Ellicott term it.

The pulsation of a holy heart leads to a stainless life,
and that is the avowed purpose of our election.

That the words describe a moral condition is affirmed rightly by Chrysostom, et al...the eternal purpose not only pardons, but also sanctifies, absolves in order to renew, and purifies in order to bestow perfection. It is the uniform teaching of Paul, that holiness is the end of our election, our calling, our pardon and acceptance.

The phrase, “holy and without blame,” is never once applied to our complete justification before God; and, indeed, men are not regarded by God as innocent or sinless, for the fact of their sin remains unaltered; but they are treated as righteous—they are absolved from the penal consequences of their apostasy. It is no objection to our interpretation, which gives the words a moral, and not a legal or forensic signification, that men are not perfect in the present state....for though the purpose begins to take effect here, it is not fully wrought out here, and we would not identify incipient operation with final perfection. The proper view, then, is that perfection is secured for us—that complete restoration to our first purity is provided for us—that He who chose us before time began, and when we were not, saw in us the full and final accomplishment of His gracious purpose. When He elected us—He beheld realized in us His own ideal of restored and redeemed humanity. Men are chosen in Christ, in order to be holy and without blame. (1Th 4:7-note; Titus 2:14-note). (Eadie - Ephesians Commentary)

 

[Iconoclast]

Since you deem yourself all knowing and deeming everyone who does not agree with you are in error, then this conversation with you is done. You have a great day.

I thought we were having a good conversation. I was helping correct your errors. I was polite and posted clearly. You reject the correction and desire to not know. I am okay with that, but am called to be faithful and correct error.
You post as if you are never wrong, yourself, lol so I like how you project it on me. You have said you have no longer any need for teaching in a local church, is that right? or have you changed on that? many things you post would be corrected in a solid church sunday school.

 

[sandyj]

I thought we were having a good conversation. I was helping correct your errors. I was polite and posted clearly. You reject the correction and desire to not know. I am okay with that, but am called to be faithful and correct error.
You post as if you are never wrong, yourself, lol so I like how you project it on me. You have said you have no longer any need for teaching in a local church, is that right? or have you changed on that? many things you post would be corrected in a solid church sunday school.

I'm wrong all the time and happy to have my errors politely pointed out and proven wrong. Every day is a school day.

 

[Iconoclast]

I'm wrong all the time and happy to have my errors politely pointed out and proven wrong. Every day is a school day.

Me too. If we want truth that should be our attitude. Some people are set to resist some Bible teaching that they struggle with emotionally.
God is God.Man is not God.

 

[LeviR]

I'm wrong all the time and happy to have my errors politely pointed out and proven wrong. Every day is a school day.

Wow, a person who can actually admit when they are wrong. You are a rare person indeed.
I used to be a Trinitarian. But upon much study, I had to admit I was wrong.
Glad I did, because you can’t know truth until you start with it.

 

[Hopeful 2]

You deny what is written,

I deny the wrongs that have been written.

then accuse me of liking sin?

Where did I write that you liked sin ?

Scriture describes sin as something that real believers battle and resist.

I am glad you included the word "resist".
That sort of separates the real believers from the posers...doesn't it ?

Are you one of these people who redefine sin, saying....you do not sin, instead you make mistakes???

Not at all
I go by John's 1 John 5:17 description of sin..."
17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

When you make off topic posts, that is sin as you do not follow the rules.

What one may see as off topic, another might see as a true connection.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

A person has to be adopted , or born from above to be a child of God.

4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

I believe all human beings are born into this world as children of God. I don't believe God ends His relationship with anyone, unless they defuse to be corrected,

If ye endurec hastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whomthe father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then...ye are...not sons.
Heb.12:7-8 KJV

Like a good parents continue to love even in dicipline. Nobody throws their kids to the wolves.

 

[LeviR]

Me too. If we want truth that should be our attitude. Some people are set to resist some Bible teaching that they struggle with emotionally.
God is God.Man is not God.

Man is not God but man can be identified as God if the words he speaks and the works he does belong to God.
Moses was sent to be as God to Pharaoh because Moses was to speak God’s words and do God’s work.

 

[Iconoclast]

I believe all human beings are born into this world as children of God. I don't believe God ends His relationship with anyone, unless they defuse to be corrected,

If ye endurec hastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whomthe father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then...ye are...not sons.


Like a good parents continue to love even in dicipline. Nobody throws their kids to the wolves.

I know what you are saying, but the point of Hebrews12 is saying we as believers are chastened, and contrasts that with bastards 12:8.Sons speak to those adopted by new birth.

 

[Iconoclast]

Wow, a person who can actually admit when they are wrong. You are a rare person indeed.
I used to be a Trinitarian. But upon much study, I had to admit I was wrong.
Glad I did, because you can’t know truth until you start with it.

The Bible teaches the trinity.
Not everyone believes the bible teaching.
The Bible speaks of unbelievers.
They do not believe.There will not be anyone in heaven who deny the trinity.
A person who claims to be a Christian believes in the trinity. It is not for everyone.

 

[Iconoclast]

I believe all human beings are born into this world as children of God. I don't believe God ends His relationship with anyone, unless they defuse to be corrected,

If ye endurec hastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whomthe father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then...ye are...not sons.
Heb.12:7-8 KJV

Like a good parents continue to love even in dicipline. Nobody throws their kids to the wolves.

Adam was originally created in God's Image and likeness.
The fall destroying that, left mankind being made after Adam's fallen image.Gen5:3

 

[for_his_glory]

I was helping correct your errors.

I never said that I know everything as no one can claim that and when I am in error the Holy Spirit always sends me correction by those who have a better Spiritual knowledge than I have. You on the other hand refuse to see any error in yourself as you believe that if others do not agree with you that they error in their understanding. We give you scripture and yet you keep telling us we are wrong. How does one have a healthy conversation with you when all you do is say they are wrong and you are right.

BTW, scripture says to not forsake the assembling, not a four walled building with a name above its door. There is no need to reply as we are done with this topic and I pray you have a good evening.

 

[Iconoclast]

I never said that I know everything as no one can claim that and when I am in error the Holy Spirit always sends me correction by those who have a better Spiritual knowledge than I have. You on the other hand refuse to see any error in yourself as you believe that if others do not agree with you that they error in their understanding. We give you scripture and yet you keep telling us we are wrong. How does one have a healthy conversation with you when all you do is say they are wrong and you are right.

BTW, scripture says to not forsake the assembling, not a four walled building with a name above its door. There is no need to reply as we are done with this topic and I pray you have a good evening.

I have been corrected many times by those who know their Bible. You keep saying I need correction...but you have not offered any.
Because you use a verse out of context does not mean I am refusing correction.
It could mean you are consistently wrong.
The other one censors what I post and even my emojis...lol
Some people attack the people who try to help and make a good study. I am not going to commend error or those who think it is all the same.It is not

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Adam was originally created in God's Image and likeness.
The fall destroying that, left mankind being made after Adam's fallen image.Gen5:3

I was taught that when I went to a Baptist church. It's not true, Adam and Eve left Eden in a saved condition and the proof of this is in the instruction that God gave to our first parents and how the NT interprets the Genesis passage.

 

[Iconoclast]

I was taught that when I went to a Baptist church. It's not true, Adam and Eve left Eden in a saved condition and the proof of this is in the instruction that God gave to our first parents and how the NT interprets the Genesis passage.

Adam sinned and died.
God did cloth them but spiritual death, followed by physical death became a reality for all mankind.

 

[GodsGrace]

It is a purpose clause! It is not a contingency! ..It is NOT "we should be", I have my fingers crossed"
should is not meant to be up for grabs, you are mis-reading it.

There is not a contingency here, you are reading it wrong...God does what He purposes to do, every time:
9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: It is not up to us, but rather up to God;
Phil.1: 6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Agreed, this is true.


Jesus died with a Covenant love for the elect children the Father gave to Him...The seed of Abraham, not the seed of Adam;
Heb2:
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

God knows our hearts are deceitful and desperately wicked. That is why in mercy He elected a multitude of sinners out of fallen Humanity to set His saving love upon...no more, no less.
mt.20:
15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?

16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

Y0U ARE BREAKING TOS RULES.
YOU MUJST REMEMBER THAT YOU ARE IN THE THEOLOGY FORUM.
YOUR DEGRADING REMARKS TO OTHER MEMBERS ARE NOT ACCEPTED HERE.
1.1
1.3
1.5

YOU WILL BE REMOVED FROM THIS THREAD FOR 3 DAYS.
THIS IS THE SECOND WARNING YOU'VE RECEIVED.
IF THE ATTITUDE DOES NOT CHANGE, YOU WILL BE PERMANENTLY BANNED FROM THIS THREAD.

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS POST ON THIS THREAD.
USE TALK WITH STAFF IF NECESSARY.

 

[GodsGrace]

I have been corrected many times by those who know their Bible. You keep saying I need correction...but you have not offered any.
Because you use a verse out of context does not mean I am refusing correction.
It could mean you are consistently wrong.
The other one censors what I post and even my emojis...lol
Some people attack the people who try to help and make a good study. I am not going to commend error or those who think it is all the same.It is not

PERSONAL REMARKS TO OTHER MEMBERS ARE NOT ACCEPTABLE ON THIS FORUM.