Not every person Ever Born is a Child of God.

[GodsGrace]

They don’t say Mary gave birth to a human being, they call it “the incarnation”
Their teaching means that Mary gave birth to no one.

What exactly does the above mean?

 

[for_his_glory]

Everyone in 2 Pet.3:9.......is going to be saved. Not one will perish. Peter is speaking of the elect people and those who would be saved in the future., Not one will be lost. It is the beloved, the To-usward....

Do you believe everyone that has been born and will be born will have and will be saved?

 

[for_his_glory]

Christian’s believe differently on a wide variety of topics. Which Christian’s are you referring to?
I know of many different teachings on the Trinity.

And that should not be, but not everyone who calls themselves a Christian allow the Holy Spirit teach them as they would rather believe everything that comes from the pulpit.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Why is that so hard to understand. Here is another one that says not everyone that is born is a child of God.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[LeviR]

And that should not be, but not everyone who calls themselves a Christian allow the Holy Spirit teach them as they would rather believe everything that comes from the pulpit.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Why is that so hard to understand. Here is another one that says not everyone that is born is a child of God.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

“John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Why is that so hard to understand.”

Because we first need to understand John 1:1

Suppose John knew that God was the Father, the only true God.
When he says “The word was with God” it would mean the word was with the Father. And when he says the word was God, it would mean the word was the Father.
Therefore if the word of the LORD comes to someone, it is the Father coming to them by His word. Because God’s word is God.

When the word is made flesh, it is the Father coming in flesh by His word through His son.

 

[Iconoclast]

As "original sin" is a catholic concept to begin with, we can toss that whole idea aside.
Start calling it what it really was...the first sin.
Nobody has to pay for sins done by another, including Adam's sin. (Ezek 18:20)

Romans 5.12-21 explains we all sinned and died in Adam.
All sinned.All died.

Do you believe everyone that has been born and will be born will have and will be saved?

I believe that all elect persons will be saved, in Peter's day, and in our day, and in the future. Jesus made it very clear that multitudes will be sent away into second death

 

[Hopeful 2]

Romans 5.12-21 explains we all sinned and died in Adam.
All sinned.All died.

Who then, is verse 14 talking about ? ..."Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam,"
BTW, Enoch didn't die, nor did Elijah !

I believe that all elect persons will be saved, in Peter's day, and in our day, and in the future. Jesus made it very clear that multitudes will be sent away into second death

Those that submit to Christ will be saved.

 

[GodsGrace]

And that should not be, but not everyone who calls themselves a Christian allow the Holy Spirit teach them as they would rather believe everything that comes from the pulpit.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Why is that so hard to understand.

You're speaking about the Trinity and, of course, we agree.
There is only ONE Christian teaching on the Trinity.

Any other teaching that strays from it is heresy and is not Christian.

This is also for LeviR who made the rather disturbing comment about different Christian groups believing the doctrine of the Trinity differently.

Here is another one that says not everyone that is born is a child of God

I'm afraid I started this discussion on another thread.
Everyone is a creature of God (a child) because God created everyone.

But not everyone is a SON OF GOD, but only those that believe in His Son for their salvation.

If you want some verses, I'll look them up.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The above says NOTHING about children dying going to hell.
I'm shocked to learn that you may believe this --- not sure that you do yet.

 

[for_his_glory]

I believe that all elect persons will be saved, in Peter's day, and in our day, and in the future. Jesus made it very clear that multitudes will be sent away into second death

So, does God select who He wants that are perfect and throws everyone else away giving them no chance to be redeemed of their sins?

Think about this below as I am not going to put scripture to this, but let each one look them up for themselves. Here is God's elect that He has used in the past:

Noah was a drunk
Abraham was too old
Isaac was a daydreamer
Jacob was a liar
Leah was ugly
Joseph was abused
Moses had a stuttering problem
Gideon was afraid
Samson had long hair and was a womanizer
Rahab was a prostitute
Jeremiah and Timothy were too young
David had an affair and was a murderer
Elijah was suicidal
Isaiah preached naked
Jonah ran from God
Naomi was a widow
Job went bankrupt
Peter denied Christ
The Disciples fell asleep while praying
Martha worried about everything
Mary Magdalene was, well you know
The Samaritan woman was divorced, more than once
Zacchaeus was too small
Paul was too religious (and as Saul was a murderer?)
Timothy had an ulcer
Lazarus was dead!

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm afraid I started this discussion on another thread.
Everyone is a creature of God (a child) because God created everyone.

But not everyone is a SON OF GOD, but only those that believe in His Son for their salvation.

If you want some verses, I'll look them up.

Yes, I agree everyone is a creature of God made in His image and that not all that He created are son's of God as that only happens at the time we turn back to Him and are Spiritually born again from above.

The above says NOTHING about children dying going to hell.
I'm shocked to learn that you may believe this --- not sure that you do yet.

I would rather discuss this in another thread in order to discuss it more properly and not derail this thread. If you want to start one and tag me into it I would like to discuss this further.

 

[Iconoclast]

So, does God select who He wants that are perfect

I have not stated this, that you have posted. God has elected sinners, ungodly, unsaved sinners. Having made these sinners the objects of His love, He effectually draws them to Himself. This is found all through the bible.

and throws everyone else away giving them no chance to be redeemed of their sins?

God will cast out all who offend out of His Kingdom. He does not in your language throw everyone else out.
Here is the description of God overlooking the none elect.:
By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ,7 to the praise of His glorious grace;8 others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of His glorious justice.9
7 1 Tim. 5:21; Matt. 25:34
8 Eph. 1:5–6
9 Rom. 9:22–23; Jude 4

Think about this below as I am not going to put scripture to this, but let each one look them up for themselves. Here is God's elect that He has used in the past:

Noah was a drunk
Abraham was too old
Isaac was a daydreamer
Jacob was a liar
Leah was ugly
Joseph was abused
Moses had a stuttering problem
Gideon was afraid
Samson had long hair and was a womanizer
Rahab was a prostitute
Jeremiah and Timothy were too young
David had an affair and was a murderer
Elijah was suicidal
Isaiah preached naked
Jonah ran from God
Naomi was a widow
Job went bankrupt
Peter denied Christ
The Disciples fell asleep while praying
Martha worried about everything
Mary Magdalene was, well you know
The Samaritan woman was divorced, more than once
Zacchaeus was too small
Paul was too religious (and as Saul was a murderer?)
Timothy had an ulcer
Lazarus was dead!

Nice list, but as we have posted.....God saves sinners.

 

[for_his_glory]

“John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Why is that so hard to understand.”

Because we first need to understand John 1:1

Suppose John knew that God was the Father, the only true God.
When he says “The word was with God” it would mean the word was with the Father. And when he says the word was God, it would mean the word was the Father.
Therefore if the word of the LORD comes to someone, it is the Father coming to them by His word. Because God’s word is God.

When the word is made flesh, it is the Father coming in flesh by His word through His son.

I'm putting this in red letters for what Jesus already spoke to us as using the KJV red letter Bible.

John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
John 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
I really do not want to get into the Trinity and derail this thread, but to leave you with these scriptures to study for yourself.
Scriptures that reference Jesus being referred to as God:
John 1:1-14; John 10:30; Romans 9:5; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8, 9; 1 John 5:7, 8, 20; 1 Corinthians 8:6; 2 Corinthians 3:17; 13:14; Isaiah 9:6; 44:6; Luke 1:35; Matthew 1:23; 28:19; John 14:16, 17; Genesis 1:1, 2 (cross reference John 1:1-14); 1 Corinthians 12:4-6; Ephesians 4:4-6; Colossians 1:15-17; John 14:9-11; Philippians 2:5-8; Rev 1:8

Scriptures that refer the Holy Spirit as being God:
Psalms 139:7, 8; John 14:17; 16:13; Isaiah 40:13; 1 Corinthians 2:10, 11; Zechariah 4:6; Luke 1:35; Ephesians 4:4-6; Romans 5:5; 1 Corinthians 6:19; Ephesians 1:13; 1 Thessalonians 1:5; Titus 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21; Jude 1:20

 

[for_his_glory]

I have not stated this, that you have posted. God has elected sinners, ungodly, unsaved sinners. Having made these sinners the objects of His love, He effectually draws them to Himself. This is found all through the bible.


God will cast out all who offend out of His Kingdom. He does not in your language throw everyone else out.
Here is the description of God overlooking the none elect.:
By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ,7 to the praise of His glorious grace;8 others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of His glorious justice.9
7 1 Tim. 5:21; Matt. 25:34
8 Eph. 1:5–6
9 Rom. 9:22–23; Jude 4


Nice list, but as we have posted.....God saves sinners.

Then why do you make it sound like God only elects those who are perfect, even before the foundation of the world. The fact is we have all sinned and fallen short of His glory like all those in that list as we were made to be holy and blameless before Him.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

None of us, even those in that list have been holy and blameless before Him, but only God knows the heart.

 

[for_his_glory]

Nice list, but as we have posted.....God saves sinners.

Yes, God saves sinners who repent and turn back to Him.

 

[Iconoclast]

Then why do you make it sound like God only elects those who are perfect, even before the foundation of the world. The fact is we have all sinned and fallen short of His glory like all those in that list as we were made to be holy and blameless before Him.

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

None of us, even those in that list have been holy and blameless before Him, but only God knows the heart.

In verse 4 it does NOT say that they ARE Holy and blameless...but vs. 4 is saying...in order that these sinners will be found holy and blameless at the last day.

God elects a multitude of sinners....but not all people everywhere.

 

[Iconoclast]

Yes, God saves sinners who repent and turn back to Him.

Actually...God GRANTS Repentance and faith, enabling those elected to turn and believe. No man turns to God on their own. Salvation is graced to these sinners...not the other way around.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Actually...God GRANTS Repentance and faith, enabling those elected to turn and believe. No man turns to God on their own. Salvation is graced to these sinners...not the other way around.

As repentance and faith are the ways of telling the elect from the non-elect, aren't the unrepentant and faithless the unelected ?
All the elect are faithful non-sinners !

 

[Iconoclast]

As repentance and faith are the ways of telling the elect from the non-elect, aren't the unrepentant and faithless the unelected ?
All the elect are faithful non-sinners !

The elect are saved sinners. The reigning power of sin has been broken, but they still are able to sin here on earth.
God commands His people to mortify sin, deprive it of power.We are instructed to fight against sins of the flesh.

 

[Hopeful 2]

The elect are saved sinners. The reigning power of sin has been broken, but they still are able to sin here on earth.
God commands His people to mortify sin, deprive it of power.We are instructed to fight against sins of the flesh.

You treat sin like a privilege.
Those that love God hate sin, and won't do them.

 

[Iconoclast]

You treat sin like a privilege.
Those that love God hate sin, and won't do them.

You deny what is written, then accuse me of liking sin? Scriture describes sin as something that real believers battle and resist. Are you one of these people who redefine sin, saying....you do not sin, instead you make mistakes???
When you make off topic posts, that is sin as you do not follow the rules.

 

[for_his_glory]

In verse 4 it does NOT say that they ARE Holy and blameless...but vs. 4 is saying...in order that these sinners will be found holy and blameless at the last day.

God elects a multitude of sinners....but not all people everywhere.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace

1. Notice it says "should be", but has anyone ever been perfectly holy and blameless before Him!

2. We are only "predestined" unto the adoption of children, but only if we come to Christ through repentance and forgiveness

3. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life and no one comes to the Father, but by Christ Jesus only. We have all sinned, beginning with Adam and Eve, and all have fallen short of His glory, but through laying down His own life for the love He has for all we have redemption through His blood that we all can be reconciled back to God.

Not every person that has ever been born is a child of God as only God knows the intents of the heart.